Stoudamire`s no sure thing: C`s eye Cassell

hiphop1 · Post #21 » by **hiphop1** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:22 pm

I'll let the coach worry about pt get all the talent you can on the team.

eitanr · Post #22 » by **eitanr** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:47 pm

Couldn't Boston just sign Damon to the rest of the season and then Sam can be signed in the off-season? I think the chances of Sam getting bought out and coming to Boston this season is too low to take a risk on. Let's do a little math here.
Let's say in PG ability in the conduciveness of this team, Sam is a 6 and Damon is a 3.5. (That's just the ratio I gave of how much better Sam is than Damon...almost twice as good).
Now I'd say there's a 35% chance that Sam gets bought out. If he does get bough out, there's then an 80% chance he comes to Boston. So that's 6(.35)(.

which then equals 1.68, less than half of Damon's current PG value. So you see, it'd be better to get Damon's PG value now then take a risk on Sam.

celticfan42487 · Post #23 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:00 pm

Actually if everything turns out right he should take away some of Ray and Pierce's. along with some of House and Tony Allen's.

The one star lineup should be reduced with a Stoud-TA/House-Posey lineup as Ray Allen and Paul Pierce sit like KG used to.

But I agree it makes a bit of a log jam. One of House/TA/Stoud could end up with an average of 5 mpg.

House averages 20mpg right now, but TA at 17mpg is just starting to get healthy and Stoud will be new competition.

hiphop1 · Post #24 » by **hiphop1** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:03 pm

Nothing wrong with a little competion

Post #25 » by **darrendaye** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:04 pm

So, it's a 100% chance Damon comes to Boston? Also, three weeks ago, what would your projections have looked like comparing the free Gary Payton and the not yet certain to be released Stoudamire? What was his probability of being released three weeks ago?

Collinto · Post #26 » by **Collinto** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:04 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:well Colin you are negating the very reason he'd be good insurance for a Rondo injury.. and that's because he can bring the ball up the floor.

And I said he'd be very imporant because of that in the playoffs against DET, who we all know unlike last game won't go an entire series without playing the diffrence maker Lindsey Hunter was against House/TA/Ray Allen's ball handling skills.

Stoud I doubt is going to bring any more to the table then a House or a TA, but what he does bring is uniquely his own out of all our players save for Rondo.

And I personally think we NEED to have a PG Doc can go to in the playoffs and trust without us having to get buried by the press. Apparently Doc doesn't trust Pruitt so.. get one of those vets in here.

Recent realgm article says Stoud wants to be on a team by THURSDAY. With the Suns in the running doesn't look like we'll be able to play the waiting game. But Sammy was just speculation, honestly who the **** is going to buy out Sam Cassel and why? We can just wait and sign him next year if we need too.

True, I am negating it if we have Rondo. As backups, I think that TA and House are fine bringing the ball up the floor...taking into account what else they bring to the table. I just don't want to see them for 48 minutes a game. Hence my opinion, injury insurance for Rondo.

I am also not convinced that Doc shuffles his rotation today, for the possibility of 15 minutes of PT against Lindsey Hunter in the playoffs. JMHO.

If Stoud is willing to come in and play Scal type minutes and be a specialist I don't have an issue with that at all. In fact, I think that type of player is needed. What I am not convinced of is that Stoud will come in and log multiple DNP-CD's and be fine with that...

Post #27 » by **darrendaye** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:10 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Actually if everything turns out right he should take away some of Ray and Pierce's. along with some of House and Tony Allen's.

The one star lineup should be reduced with a Stoud-TA/House-Posey lineup as Ray Allen and Paul Pierce sit like KG used to.

But I agree it makes a bit of a log jam. One of House/TA/Stoud could end up with an average of 5 mpg.

House averages 20mpg right now, but TA at 17mpg is just starting to get healthy and Stoud will be new competition.

But, you understand my point. Right? Your fixing to have periods where you have House, Stoudamire, or Rondo defending the opposition's 2-guard. There's only 48 minutes needed to guard the point.

return2glory · Post #28 » by **return2glory** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:18 pm

I also feel we need a true PG for insurance reasons. I want Stoudamire. Sam would be great, but I don't think the Clippers would buy him out.

Stoudamire wants to come here. Stoudamire can be had for the league minium because of the buy out. We only have one true PG on this team in Rondo. Come playoff time, teams will trap us when Rondo goes to the bench because TA or House as the backup. If Rondo goes down with an injury, Stoudamire can step in better than TA or House as his backup.

nasbahceltic · Post #29 » by **nasbahceltic** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:28 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:Actually if everything turns out right he should take away some of Ray and Pierce's. along with some of House and Tony Allen's.

The one star lineup should be reduced with a Stoud-TA/House-Posey lineup as Ray Allen and Paul Pierce sit like KG used to.

But I agree it makes a bit of a log jam. One of House/TA/Stoud could end up with an average of 5 mpg.

House averages 20mpg right now, but TA at 17mpg is just starting to get healthy and Stoud will be new competition.

I think TA and House would probably end up rotating based on what the team needs (Defense or Scoring) and I'm perfectly fine with that. Really who cares if TA or House are getting reduced minutes. These guys are professionals and know their roles. These aren't the type fo guys who are gonna whine about minutes IMO.

hiphop1 · Post #30 » by **hiphop1** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:30 pm

nasbahceltic wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I think TA and House would probably end up rotating based on what the team needs (Defense or Scoring) and I'm perfectly fine with that. Really who cares if TA or House are getting reduced minutes. These guys are professionals and know their roles. These aren't the type fo guys who are gonna whine about minutes IMO.

Glad your coming around.

Hemingway · Post #31 » by **Hemingway** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:35 pm

2 points

1. Why is there all this talk of us being rushed? Are there other teams wanting to sign mighty mouse? Really? If we told him, "hey look, your our second choice but we need to see if Sam gets bought out" couldn't he just tell his second choice team, "look I want to see if Boston needs me first." I mean c'mon the trade deadline is coming up very soon, what is the rush.

2. If we lose out on Mighty Mouse and Sam I am, there is always Payton. Damon is not that much better than GP. So one way of another we will get a vet pg.

hiphop1 · Post #32 » by **hiphop1** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:44 pm

Hemingway wrote:2 points

1. Why is there all this talk of us being rushed? Are there other teams wanting to sign mighty mouse? Really? If we told him, "hey look, your our second choice but we need to see if Sam gets bought out" couldn't he just tell his second choice team, "look I want to see if Boston needs me first." I mean c'mon the trade deadline is coming up very soon, what is the rush.

2. If we lose out on Mighty Mouse and Sam I am, there is always Payton. Damon is not that much better than GP. So one way of another we will get a vet pg.

There are actually five other teams interested in him

eitanr · Post #33 » by **eitanr** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:45 pm

Darrendaye, your right in that GP was a sure thing a month ago, but the fact is the C's always had GP in the back pocket and never really needed to make a quick move for him. The best plan a month ago was to look for either Cassel or Stoudamire to get bought out by the deadline and if they weren't, then sign GP.

Now the situation is different with Damon because he wants a deal very soon and has other suitors. With this in mind, maybe it isn't 100% that Damon goes to Boston, but it's probably somewhere near 90% (or at least higher than 80) at which case it is still a more sensible move than taking a risk on Cassel, mathematically speaking.

Consider the benefit to the Clips. They will look long and hard for any deal with Cassel that gets them back youth or a pick. Dallas, Spurs, Phoenix, should be able to configure some deal to get Sam I am if they really wanted to. Even if a fair deal couldn't be done, if the Clipps could get a future pick, or even future 2nd rd picks, it'd be a wiser move then just buying him out.

Celts17Pride · Post #34 » by **Celts17Pride** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:27 pm

If Ainge doesn't sign Stoudamire this week then he will sign with another team probably by Friday. I'm guessing Ainge has only marginal interest and Stoudamire signs with someone else. IMO.

Collinto · Post #35 » by **Collinto** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:54 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:If Ainge doesn't sign Stoudamire this week then he will sign with another team probably by Friday. I'm guessing Ainge has only marginal interest and Stoudamire signs with someone else. IMO.

+1

l2RDO · Post #36 » by **l2RDO** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:57 pm

I think they should cut back on Pierce and Ray's minutes. Both those guys are averaging close to 40 minutes a game, while KG is averaging 35. The Celtics seriously have need for a player that can get the ball up the court under extreme pressure, and House, Tony, and Ray have all proven they arent the answer.

celticfan42487 · Post #37 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:39 pm

darrendaye wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
But, you understand my point. Right? Your fixing to have periods where you have House, Stoudamire, or Rondo defending the opposition's 2-guard. There's only 48 minutes needed to guard the point.

yeah, and 2RDO reiterated my point, of that sucks but Pierce and Ray needs rest. In the playoffs it all comes down to matchups and we may play Tony exclusively at the 2. Ray may need month off who knowes why he's been **** up wide open shots so much.

-----------------------------------------

The thing is House and Stoud aren't excatly people I look at and say oh good Scalabrine we'll bring you in every 5th game or so when we think we need you.

Then if you play matchups of I think we need another shooter[House] or another defender [TA] at the 2. House is going to expect to get minutes because that's why he signed here.

Add to that TA is a work in playing project. We need him, he needs minutes to find himself we can't just let him out.

I really don't know how the minutes are going to work out because these guys are verterants who either have contributed or are signing on to be a diffrence maker. And it makes me from a chemistry stand point very nervous when I have to rely on Stoud or House to be good citizens and get DNPs.

That said I think we need Tony's defense to have a proper defender at the 2 guard for backup. And we need Stoud or Cassel's ball-handling to counter the press in the playoffs. Stoud won't need more then 15mpg to run at full effeciency with these guys come playoffs time, but we can't have Devin Harris, Tony Parker,Lindsey Hunter, ect. Pressuring loose handed Ray Allen and Tony Allen, or slow mo House. That will just result in tunovers or 7 second plays on offense.

Post #38 » by **sully00** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:40 pm

First off Damon will know were he is going before Wed.

Yes other teams with Championship aspirations have even more needs at the point than Boston. ORL, DEN, HOU, POR (a little ironic when you look at their roster but they are in a position to win), TOR. The Spurs, Suns, and Mavs are always looking for a player like Damon.

While Stoudamire would certainly reduce the mins we depend on House and Allen that is a good thing because right now we are using Tony Allen as a PG because both he and Eddie are SGs. I am far less concerned about whether or not House can defend someone's back up SG than what the hell we do if Rondo gets in foul trouble against someone's first unit. I can't even think of a team that is bringing in a 6'7" SG off the bench, most teams go with combo guards.

If I was worried about team defense then I guess Cassell would be a better fit. I kind of think this team needs a pg who can create for others and shoot the ball and Sam is kind of limited in both aspects now. He doesn't have 3pt range and he doesn't really get in the paint. Damon can shoot the 3pt shot as well as any pg in the league and can still get a step on his man.

Fencer reregistered · Post #39 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:46 pm

I'm not convinced Cassell will leave the money on the table to take a buyout this year.

P2 · Post #40 » by P2 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:52 pm

1. Stoudamire wants a ring, Cassell has got a couple. I am talking about motivation. Stoudamire said he really wants to play in Boston.
2. Stoudamire's role can't be diminished more, that's why he got the buyout. Cassell is the starting point guard for his team. There won't be a buyout.
3. Stoudamire's 34, Cassell is 4 years older.
4. Stoudamire is more a Rondo kind of player than Cassell, which is a good thing.
5. We can get Stoudamire now! And now is the right time to upgrade our PG situation. We can't afford to wait any longer, and who knows how long Cassell's situation is dragged out.