Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Defense only, who is the more impactful player?
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Kobe on average
Kobe is imo a extremely overated defender by media with all the D-awards
But jokic, while fine in some matchups/situstions can be a outright negative in others imo which is a fairly big issue for a center compared to a guard
Kobe is imo a extremely overated defender by media with all the D-awards
But jokic, while fine in some matchups/situstions can be a outright negative in others imo which is a fairly big issue for a center compared to a guard
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
According to Long Term RAPM the answer is clearly Jokic https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WMfP-GVHXCjPfp2sMnBjWB301OtO3LO7n-EKoBSl-iQ/edit
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
At their defensive peaks? Their defensive primes?
I don't think Kobe's best defense was played during his prime as a player at all.
I don't think Kobe's best defense was played during his prime as a player at all.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Jokic isn’t checking prime Wade 94 feet up the court, that’s all I know
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
rk2023 wrote:Jokic isn’t checking prime Wade 94 feet up the court, that’s all I know
Kobe didn't do stuff like that every game, or even all game, either, so it's somewhat moot.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
tsherkin wrote:rk2023 wrote:Jokic isn’t checking prime Wade 94 feet up the court, that’s all I know
Kobe didn't do stuff like that every game, or even all game, either, so it's somewhat moot.
Was tongue in cheek haha, I usually try to be a positive contributor - but sometimes it’s fun to joke around
My answer would be Kobe in seriousness (much more clear looking at 1999/2000), but I would not consider either a needle mover on that end
Mogspan wrote:I think they see the super rare combo of high IQ with freakish athleticism and overrate the former a bit, kind of like a hot girl who is rather articulate being thought of as “super smart.” I don’t know kind of a weird analogy, but you catch my drift.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
rk2023 wrote:Was tongue in cheek haha, I usually try to be a positive contributor - but sometimes it’s fun to joke around
Ah, fair enough. My bad.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Clearly Kobe albeit neither are anything to write home about.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Is this a serious thread? Kobe's one of the best defensive players in history and Jokic is a sieve.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
First three-peat Kobe was a pretty pesky guard defender, damn near devastating in his early 20's. Obviously not consistent like Prime Wade but that's definitely something which is more you can say than Joker unless you really like his rebounding.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
LakerLegend wrote:Is this a serious thread? Kobe's one of the best defensive players in history and Jokic is a sieve.
Kobe is likely outside of top 100 players in the league history.
That doesn't change the fact that he's my choice in this thread, but still...
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
LakerLegend wrote:Is this a serious thread? Kobe's one of the best defensive players in history and Jokic is a sieve.
Neither of these things are true.
You said to me “I will give you scissor seven fine quality animation".
You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".
What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?
You left then but you put flat mediums which were not good before my scissor seven".
What do you take me for, that you treat somebody like me with such contempt?
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
LakerLegend wrote:Is this a serious thread? Kobe's one of the best defensive players in history and Jokic is a sieve.
These are both fairly inaccurate.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Jokic rebounds well but I count rebounding as a 3rd category that is not defense or offense.
I don’t think Jokic is a better defender than the average starting center.
Kobe may not have always tried hard on defense when Kobe was carrying the offense but when Kobe tried hard on defense Kobe was a very good defender.
I don’t think Jokic is a better defender than the average starting center.
Kobe may not have always tried hard on defense when Kobe was carrying the offense but when Kobe tried hard on defense Kobe was a very good defender.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
SinceGatlingWasARookie wrote:Jokic rebounds well but I count rebounding as a 3rd category that is not defense or offense.
It is objectively wrong to completely remove defensive rebounding from defense, as it literally ends an offensive possession. Obviously something you weight, of course, since it isn't the same sort of thing as shot defense. But it's still very clearly A component of defense.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
When most of the pressure came from a single opponent wing player Kobe might have been more impactful. When having been committed, that is, which was not a sure guarantee. His overall defense had always been overrated (for example due to his tendency of having watched the ball-leading player too much and losing his assigned opponent).
Otherwise than that, it's Jokic. Just the nature of the game: A big man has more impact on his team's defense, and even though Jokic is far from being a great defender, he's OK as he's overall a player with positive impact.
Otherwise than that, it's Jokic. Just the nature of the game: A big man has more impact on his team's defense, and even though Jokic is far from being a great defender, he's OK as he's overall a player with positive impact.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
LakerLegend wrote:Is this a serious thread? Kobe's one of the best defensive players in history and Jokic is a sieve.
This.
7-time RealGM MVPoster 2009-2016
Inducted into RealGM HOF 1st ballot in 2017
Inducted into RealGM HOF 1st ballot in 2017
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
Special_Puppy wrote:According to Long Term RAPM the answer is clearly Jokic https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WMfP-GVHXCjPfp2sMnBjWB301OtO3LO7n-EKoBSl-iQ/edit
Unbelievable lmao.
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.
Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
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Re: Defense Only: Kobe Bryant vs Nikola Jokic
McBubbles wrote:LakerLegend wrote:Is this a serious thread? Kobe's one of the best defensive players in history and Jokic is a sieve.
Neither of these things are true.
Unbelievable. Yall are just lying to yourselves at this point. Jokic f****ing sucks at defense. Yall need to give it up. He is not good at defense
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.
Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.