Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP

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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#361 » by Mickey8 » Wed May 15, 2024 8:15 pm

tsherkin wrote:
KTM_2813 wrote:I think part of the problem with NBA pundits is that they consistently fail (or refuse) to recognize what we're seeing from Jokic.


I think their problem is more that they are mostly agenda-driven fools who don't actually know what they're talking about, even if some of them did play the game. And more pertinently, that they aren't actually proficient analysts (in the broader sense, not speaking strictly on a quantitative level), so they are riddled with fallacies, oversights and a general absence of integrity in how they approach a given subject.

They're clowns. Some of them are more honest about it, like Stephen A. Smith. He knows what he is and dedicates himself to the role. It's a stupid role, but he knows what he's doing and does it well. The others, like the TNT crew, who pretend they're useful at any point other than when they are just bantering with one another, are sort of tragic. And there are other examples beyond them in the media environment and the space of NBA commentary.

So his role is to be openly racist and xenophobic and to surround himself with the people with the same views, good job ESPN.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#362 » by tsherkin » Wed May 15, 2024 8:18 pm

Mickey8 wrote:So his role is to be openly racist and xenophobic and to surround himself with the people with the same views, good job ESPN.


I mean, he's a dick, this is known. I didn't say I liked him, or his role xD
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#363 » by Doctor MJ » Wed May 15, 2024 8:23 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:I actually burst out laughing when he hit that 3 over Rudy at the end. What a ridiculous player


I think a lot of us had a similar giggle response during the 3rd quarter, and I don't think I have a more-impressed-than-giggle response. Right up there with the greatest basketball performances I've ever seen.


I am partial to the move on the right block which left Rudy just shaking his head and tossing his hands in the air.


Poor Rudy. He's putting up the good fight and shouldn't be knocked as if he's doing something clearly wrong.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#364 » by tsherkin » Wed May 15, 2024 8:36 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:Poor Rudy. He's putting up the good fight and shouldn't be knocked as if he's doing something clearly wrong.


For sure. What's he gonna do? Jokic is hitting some ridiculous shots with that soft touch. He's had a hand in his face almost every time, it just doesn't matter. There is some point where defense just can't do anything else.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#365 » by penbeast0 » Wed May 15, 2024 8:55 pm

Mickey8 wrote:Gobert's teammates failed him, if Edwards and Towns showed up they would have had the chance to win that game. Actually Rudy had a good game, he was their best player, he didn't miss the shot, he rebounded well. Yet media is calling him out when he's not even the main star of that team. Its all to crap on Jokic's parade again.


Actually the popular media has been ripping Gobert an unreasonable amount since he was in Utah. Can't play him in the playoffs has been a popular hot take for at least 5 years. Not sure if it's because of being a Euro, personality, or what but it existed before and outside of his playing Jokic.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#366 » by Jaivl » Wed May 15, 2024 9:23 pm

Does he ever win a ring again? Or should Denver trade him while value is all time high?
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#367 » by McBubbles » Wed May 15, 2024 11:37 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Mickey8 wrote:Gobert's teammates failed him, if Edwards and Towns showed up they would have had the chance to win that game. Actually Rudy had a good game, he was their best player, he didn't miss the shot, he rebounded well. Yet media is calling him out when he's not even the main star of that team. Its all to crap on Jokic's parade again.


Actually the popular media has been ripping Gobert an unreasonable amount since he was in Utah. Can't play him in the playoffs has been a popular hot take for at least 5 years. Not sure if it's because of being a Euro, personality, or what but it existed before and outside of his playing Jokic.


It's his euroness, his personality and his play style. He's an extremely blunt, skinny, Frenchman who doesn't get 5 blocks a game and doesn't jump out the gym.

People forget that Tim Duncan had this problem. He finished behind his own teammate Bruce Bowen in DPOY voting 3 years straight from 2005 to 2007 :banghead: Superstar defensive players slap the floor, block the **** out of people, foul fools, and flex their biceps.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#368 » by donnieme » Wed May 15, 2024 11:45 pm

Media "analysis": focus on the team and just "let" him beat you. Good luck, guy is cooking DPOYs in back to back series.

I think the radest thing is watching bigs go from locking him up for a couple iso possessions or quarters only to get figured out and get forever cooked every meeting after.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#369 » by Doctor MJ » Thu May 16, 2024 1:10 am

donnieme wrote:Media "analysis": focus on the team and just "let" him beat you. Good luck, guy is cooking DPOYs in back to back series.

I think the radest thing is watching bigs go from locking him up for a couple iso possessions or quarters only to get figured out and get forever cooked every meeting after.


I think the "figure out" aspect of match-ups is something that's so powerful, and oftentimes not something we recognize in any kind of meaningful tactical discussion.

And yeah, Jokic right now appears to be on his way to being an all-time figure-you-out guy rather than gets-figured-out guy.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#370 » by EmpireFalls » Thu May 16, 2024 1:20 pm

Where would we rank Jokic as a defensive big today? Had this debate with a friend and really not sure. Of all the starting centers in the NBA, is he top 20?
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#371 » by GSP » Thu May 16, 2024 10:18 pm

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Wow so much for never having played with an All Star or All Nba teammate hes played w/ an Mvp. How much more help does he need
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#372 » by TroubleS0me » Fri May 17, 2024 7:02 am

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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#373 » by Mos_Heat » Fri May 17, 2024 7:11 am

EmpireFalls wrote:Where would we rank Jokic as a defensive big today? Had this debate with a friend and really not sure. Of all the starting centers in the NBA, is he top 20?

Are we counting rebounding as a part of the defense? If yes he's 10-15ish, if no then he's in the low 20s - early 30s
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#374 » by Mickey8 » Mon May 20, 2024 1:24 am

Did you see the expressions of the faces of TNT crew minus EJ , right after the halftime , it reminded me of ESPN crew after Denver have won the championship. Its like all their family have perished in that moment , they want Denver to lose so bad :-? And then that weasel Kenny said Jokic have committed foul on Ruddy. If that was the offensive foul on Jokic then their co host that is missing tonight have never scored the ball without committing the foul in his entire career. They are so pathetic, the entire mainstream media.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#375 » by TroubleS0me » Mon May 20, 2024 3:15 am

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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#376 » by ShotCreator » Mon May 20, 2024 4:01 am

This series really does show how random NBA games can be, even in the playoffs. Because it was clear from game 1 Minnesota was better but they just stopped playing well in game 5. I think in games 3 and 4 Denver played pretty good overall on both ends. It wasn't a Minnesota level problem.


More than made up for it with convincing two-way performances in game 6 and 7. Way too deep for Denver. Jokic is that guy but I've never been high on his Denver cast. Murray played like a fringe MVP last playoffs and this is a disappointing return to the mean this year. With some injury misfortune thrown in a bit.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#377 » by 70sFan » Mon May 20, 2024 10:12 am

Jokic is still the best player in the league.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#378 » by OhayoKD » Mon May 20, 2024 10:48 am

70sFan wrote:Jokic is still the best player in the league.

There's a case depending on the time frame you use. That said I'd say SGA was clearly better these playoffs though and was at least comparable during the rs.
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#379 » by 70sFan » Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pm

OhayoKD wrote:
70sFan wrote:Jokic is still the best player in the league.

There's a case depending on the time frame you use. That said I'd say SGA was clearly better these playoffs though and was at least comparable during the rs.

SGA didn't face comparable defensive opponent to Jokic, I don't see him as better these playoffs let alone "clearly". Did you forget how mediocre he looked in the first round, only because of the sweep?
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Re: Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - '24 NBA MVP & 23 Finals NBA MVP 

Post#380 » by OhayoKD » Mon May 20, 2024 1:56 pm

70sFan wrote:
OhayoKD wrote:
70sFan wrote:Jokic is still the best player in the league.

There's a case depending on the time frame you use. That said I'd say SGA was clearly better these playoffs though and was at least comparable during the rs.

SGA didn't face comparable defensive opponent to Jokic, I don't see him as better these playoffs let alone "clearly". Did you forget how mediocre he looked in the first round, only because of the sweep?

SGA was better in the first round than Jokic was. You also shouldn't ignore SGA faced better two better offenses and wasn't the biggest defensive liablity in the playoffs (Granted if you take the "absolute value" instead of "value over replacement" approach you can maybe argue jokic's defense is better).

We can also say Murray had a terrible all-time series or whatever but no one on OKC was drawing away defensive attention to the degree Jamal did.
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