DeMar DeRozan - MJP sign and trade?

[JM00n69]

Now then. What's the deal with DeMar?

He apparently is seeking a long term contract (turned down 40Mil over 2years) and will be an UFA this offseason. Philly seems to have cap space to sign him (?) in the free agent market as the team with the highest title chances among the others with cap space. But we all know Philly wont be winning any titles any time soon.

I love MPJ's improvements on defense and his rebounding! He is obviously a great shooter and has improved as a cutter/slasher but I feel liker he has about peaked now. Denver could do with another starter who can create and hit shots to take pressure off Murray/Jokic.

A sign and trade straight up? Would Chicago want MPJ? Not watched that team this season. As a Denver fan I think DeMar could be an upgrade for the next few years over MPJ for the title window.

[One_and_Done]

Denver would be worse off.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Demar is better player but this is definitely a worse fit and would make them worse as a team. And not even thinking about age part of it.


You need more spaced out shooters for Jokic. Not less of them. Players who rely on his playmaking or two man game ala Murray.


DeRozan does not shoot 3s at all, and he does not need Joker to create a bucket. Just drives or shoots mid ranges or be crafty forcing you to foul him.


But I repeat, he does not shoot 3s well or often. Not ideal fit. Plenty of other contenders that could use him more fit wise.



I would say differently about the possible fit if Derozan contract wasn't gonna be near max too. But MPJ size and off the ball movement shooting is needed in that set up. Even if he is overpaid.

[JM00n69]

I feel like DeMar would be offering a bit more on offence no? Different ways to score I mean. Cutting/ISO/midrange and demand more from the other team to defend him than MPJ who is very one dimensional. If MPJ isn't hitting his threes he might as well not be out there. Plus DeMar can create.

I get the age factor but Denvers title window with the current roster is about the next 2-4 years. Not many assets to trade either. If CHI is gonna lose DeMar anyway would they sweeten the deal? Get Caruso for Braun or PWat involved? Again I've not watched much Bulls this year and don't know their plan going forward.

[Dez]

I'm a DeRozan fan but done from a Bulls POV with no take backs.

[UcanUwill]

Demar is better player but this is definitely a worse fit and would make them worse as a team. And not even thinking about age part of it.


You need more spaced out shooters for Jokic. Not less of them. Players who rely on his playmaking or two man game ala Murray.


DeRozan does not shoot 3s at all, and he does not need Joker to create a bucket. Just drives or shoots mid ranges or be crafty forcing you to foul him.


But I repeat, he does not shoot 3s well or often. Not ideal fit. Plenty of other contenders that could use him more fit wise.



I would say differently about the possible fit if Derozan contract wasn't gonna be near max too. But MPJ size and off the ball movement shooting is needed in that set up. Even if he is overpaid.

It would require interesting coaching, but I think the fit is doable. There is always more to it than just a guy being able to shoot and play off ball. MPJ seems like a great fit on this team, but he still often comes up short, makes me wonder, do we overrate him sometimes? His usage would be higher on other teams, but would his play be better, probably not. The guy is casted in perfect role to succeed, yet he can be so off.

[Astaluego]

I think they are good trade partners (in fact I posted a trade between these teams with MPJ to the Bulls) but I think Lavine would be a much better fit...he is expected to be healthy next year, and in theory he would give Denver a lot What they need, he is a much more dynamic scorer than Porter, he can create his own shot and has been averaging about 5 assists and he can also play without the ball.

Lavine for MPJ+Nnaji..?

[bluemj32]

Denver would be worse off.

This....fit is everything, can't just slap names together.

Denver just needs depth on their bench, MPJ to improve off the dribble+ give more effort on d.

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[UcanUwill]

I think they are good trade partners (in fact I posted a trade between these teams with MPJ to the Bulls) but I think Lavine would be a much better fit...he is expected to be healthy next year, and in theory he would give Denver a lot What they need, he is a much more dynamic scorer than Porter, he can create his own shot and has been averaging about 5 assists and he can also play without the ball.

Lavine for MPJ+Nnaji..?

I would probably do it if I am Denver, not sure why Chicago would tho,

[tsherkin]

Denver would be considerably worse with Demar, that'd be awful for them.

[Astaluego]

I think they are good trade partners (in fact I posted a trade between these teams with MPJ to the Bulls) but I think Lavine would be a much better fit...he is expected to be healthy next year, and in theory he would give Denver a lot What they need, he is a much more dynamic scorer than Porter, he can create his own shot and has been averaging about 5 assists and he can also play without the ball.

Lavine for MPJ+Nnaji..?

I would probably do it if I am Denver, not sure why Chicago would tho,

They have a clear lack of size/depth in the front court, while they seem to be doing well at the back (White/Ayo/Caruso....) and especially it seems like Zach needs a change of scenery.. they seem to like each other,......Porter is younger too and would fit better with White/Ayo/#11....

[ChiTownHero1992]

Loved Demar's time he just doesn't fit (unless our plan is to be mediocre forever). He would add a punch for them but the fit isn't that great in Denver!

[basketballRob]

I wonder if MPJ has ever purposely underperformed to win a bet like his brother?

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[UcanUwill]

I think they are good trade partners (in fact I posted a trade between these teams with MPJ to the Bulls) but I think Lavine would be a much better fit...he is expected to be healthy next year, and in theory he would give Denver a lot What they need, he is a much more dynamic scorer than Porter, he can create his own shot and has been averaging about 5 assists and he can also play without the ball.

Lavine for MPJ+Nnaji..?

I would probably do it if I am Denver, not sure why Chicago would tho,

They have a clear lack of size/depth in the front court, while they seem to be doing well at the back (White/Ayo/Caruso....) and especially it seems like Zach needs a change of scenery.. they seem to like each other,......Porter is younger too and would fit better with White/Ayo/#11....

Maybe I am just down on MPJ due to his current slump. Chicago should definitely move on from Lavine, should have done it already, and on paper, does not seem like they could get any better than MPJ, but I just really fear MPJ is not that good. If he struggles on this team, man could probably end up being next Poole on a leaderless, midling team like Chicago.

[Zeno]

Besides it being an awful fit, it can’t happen because Denver, being over the first apron, can’t receive players in a sign and trade.

[dirkdiggler4177]

I feel like DeMar would be offering a bit more on offence no? Different ways to score I mean. Cutting/ISO/midrange and demand more from the other team to defend him than MPJ who is very one dimensional. If MPJ isn't hitting his threes he might as well not be out there. Plus DeMar can create.

I get the age factor but Denvers title window with the current roster is about the next 2-4 years. Not many assets to trade either. If CHI is gonna lose DeMar anyway would they sweeten the deal? Get Caruso for Braun or PWat involved? Again I've not watched much Bulls this year and don't know their plan going forward.

What are you talking about?? MPJ is the perfect fit for Denver. He is tall so it makes it easier to get his shots off, he has range and can actually shoot. You can also play him at the four with the right matchup.

DeMar can't shoot 3-pointers. He needs the ball in his hands and he operates in the high post. So basically you are saying, move away Jokic, DeMar needs his mid-range shot. Ohh Murray, the driving lane is clogged up because Demar is not creating spacing.

Horrible trade idea. I love DeMar game, but he is not good enough to play it. He is like a MJ in 97, but just much worse. Think if SGA was a 20ppg scorer, he would be terrible because he would not be good enough to command the ball. It's similar to Giddey. He needs the ball to create shots for others, but he is not good enough at shooting or scoring, so he kinda sucks. While Dort who just shoots and plays defense has a much higher value IMO. because he does not need the ball, but still creates value. That is how I see Demar vs. MPJ.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Demar is better player but this is definitely a worse fit and would make them worse as a team. And not even thinking about age part of it.


You need more spaced out shooters for Jokic. Not less of them. Players who rely on his playmaking or two man game ala Murray.


DeRozan does not shoot 3s at all, and he does not need Joker to create a bucket. Just drives or shoots mid ranges or be crafty forcing you to foul him.


But I repeat, he does not shoot 3s well or often. Not ideal fit. Plenty of other contenders that could use him more fit wise.



I would say differently about the possible fit if Derozan contract wasn't gonna be near max too. But MPJ size and off the ball movement shooting is needed in that set up. Even if he is overpaid.

It would require interesting coaching, but I think the fit is doable. There is always more to it than just a guy being able to shoot and play off ball. MPJ seems like a great fit on this team, but he still often comes up short, makes me wonder, do we overrate him sometimes? His usage would be higher on other teams, but would his play be better, probably not. The guy is casted in perfect role to succeed, yet he can be so off.

I understand the short comings of MPJr and how frustrating he can be, despite having that one elite skill (wolves fan have similar frustration with Mcdaniels).

But he is not overrated imo, overpaid more like. Because his low usage in Denver is the perfect use of his talents, size, elite shooting streaky shooting, doesn't need to handle the ball, be 3 level scorer (cant be) or much of a defender, just give more effort in most things and just shoot (very useful part of winning team ball). MPjr in team he is asked to be 1st or 2nd option would become super fast top worst contract in the league.


Kinda like how Derozan has been most of his career. Except he is specialist iso scoring mid range assassin. But he requires to have the ball and be the guy etc. Doesn't work imo in non heliocentric ball. If he was in Denver it would become my turn your turn ball (and you already have Murray who has that mamba closer approach, awkward with another), instead of team tandem ball working like clock work.


Which is what works best for Jokic self less approach. Also KCP would become only spot up shooter in that set up (Murray can shoot 3s well but should not become a corner 3 shooter). Gordon and De Rozan being told to shoot 3s regularly would he awkward.



Derozan is more of a 2 level scorer then 3 level scorer due to lack of perimeter shooting. But a good 3 level scorer that would make more sense for MPJr trade has already been mentionned. Zack Lavine, he is good driver, mid range, 3 pointers, fantastic slashing dunker with hang time. Him getting oops from Jokic would be insane. He requires be on ball but he looks good off ball too. Can do what MPjr does and more.



If that trade for Lavine was on the table I would do it. It's upgrade in scoring and talent. And both have injury issues so it cancels itself out.

[UcanUwill]

Demar is better player but this is definitely a worse fit and would make them worse as a team. And not even thinking about age part of it.


You need more spaced out shooters for Jokic. Not less of them. Players who rely on his playmaking or two man game ala Murray.


DeRozan does not shoot 3s at all, and he does not need Joker to create a bucket. Just drives or shoots mid ranges or be crafty forcing you to foul him.


But I repeat, he does not shoot 3s well or often. Not ideal fit. Plenty of other contenders that could use him more fit wise.



I would say differently about the possible fit if Derozan contract wasn't gonna be near max too. But MPJ size and off the ball movement shooting is needed in that set up. Even if he is overpaid.

It would require interesting coaching, but I think the fit is doable. There is always more to it than just a guy being able to shoot and play off ball. MPJ seems like a great fit on this team, but he still often comes up short, makes me wonder, do we overrate him sometimes? His usage would be higher on other teams, but would his play be better, probably not. The guy is casted in perfect role to succeed, yet he can be so off.

I understand the short comings of MPJr and how frustrating he can be, despite having that one elite skill (wolves fan have similar frustration with Mcdaniels).

But he is not overrated imo, overpaid more like. Because his low usage in Denver is the perfect use of his talents, size, elite shooting streaky shooting, doesn't need to handle the ball, be 3 level scorer (cant be) or much of a defender, just give more effort in most things and just shoot (very useful part of winning team ball). MPjr in team he is asked to be 1st or 2nd option would become super fast top worst contract in the league.


Kinda like how Derozan has been most of his career. Except he is specialist iso scoring mid range assassin. But he requires to have the ball and be the guy etc. Doesn't work imo in non heliocentric ball. If he was in Denver it would become my turn your turn ball (and you already have Murray who has that mamba closer approach, awkward with another), instead of team tandem ball working like clock work.


Which is what works best for Jokic self less approach. Also KCP would become only spot up shooter in that set up (Murray can shoot 3s well but should not become a corner 3 shooter). Gordon and De Rozan being told to shoot 3s regularly would he awkward.



Derozan is more of a 2 level scorer then 3 level scorer due to lack of perimeter shooting. But a good 3 level scorer that would make more sense for MPJr trade has already been mentionned. Zack Lavine, he is good driver, mid range, 3 pointers, fantastic slashing dunker with hang time. Him getting oops from Jokic would be insane. He requires be on ball but he looks good off ball too. Can do what MPjr does and more.



If that trade for Lavine was on the table I would do it. It's upgrade in scoring and talent. And both have injury issues so it cancels itself out.

Yes, I completely understand what you are saying. I just think DeRozan is pretty smart player, I have hope smart players could figure it out in smart environments. But maybe not, fit is important, I think Giddey is smart AND good, but they can't figure out anything for him right now over there in OKC.

MPJ is perfect fit, but thats kind off a worry of mine, he really has no right to struggle as much as he does right now, maybe his head just not in the best place right now, but I fear maybe we do overrate his talents? And maybe Derozan is just that much better of a player? But I agree with your premise and it feels like a trade that both teams could walk out as losers.

[tsherkin]

Yes, I completely understand what you are saying. I just think DeRozan is pretty smart player, I have hope smart players could figure it out in smart environments. But maybe not, fit is important, I think Giddey is smart AND good, but they can't figure out anything for him right now over there in OKC.

MPJ is perfect fit, but thats kind off a worry of mine, he really has no right to struggle as much as he does right now, maybe his head just not in the best place right now, but I fear maybe we do overrate his talents? And maybe Derozan is just that much better of a player? But I agree with your premise and it feels like a trade that both teams could walk out as losers.

MPJ was shooting 39% from 3 in the Minny series prior to the last game. He was doing fine. He was a 39.7% 3P shooter during the regular season. What was it that you were expecting from him? Volume 3pt shooters have high variance.

DeRozan has a lot more problems. He's useless when he isn't scoring and he isn't a good volume scorer, nor a high-impact offensive player, and defense is not his forte either...

[jc23]

Denver should be looking to get into the Caruso business as should all of next years contending teams.