Donovan Mitchell Scores 50 Points and Cavs Still Lose

[ConSarnit]

I’m not going to blame the guy who dropped 50 on high efficiency and had an all around game. You might want to look to the disappointment that’s Evan Mobley. My man scored 3 points in 30 plus minutes. This is why Mitchell is as good as gone.

Of course Mobley only got 3 points, he only got 5 shots mostly on contested 2nd shot attempts. Hard to get in any kind of rhythm when the only way to get the ball out of your guard's hands is to knock him out and take it... Mitchell wants his bigs to be garbagemen who defend, rebound and give him the ball, nothing more. He pissed Gobert off, just like he'll piss of Mobley and Allen, if he hasn't already. And no, neither Mobley or Allen are Hakeem with a thousand moves and counters, but they're more then they're allowed to be when the shutter come down over Mitchell's eyes.

How is Mobley not a garbage man? He can’t score from outside of 8ft. On the season he shot about 30% from 8ft+. It seems apparent that ORL doesn’t respect his 3pt shooting (which was improved this year but on low volume). Mobley has no midrange game and can’t post up or iso. I guess you could give him the ball more but it’s not going to result in any good offense.

In an extended playoff series teams are going to start taking away what you’re good at. That’s not much when it comes to Mobley.

[DowJones]

I'll ask again. Where did he pass up a shot? Besides a single non-attempt by Okoro, where did any of Mitchell's teammates pass up a shot?

I said Darius Garland shied away on the offensive end during the 4th quarter. The reason I said that is...

1. Darius Garland didn't attempt a single shot until a meaningless 31 foot attempt with 2 seconds left
2. Darius Garland didn't register a single assist
3. Darius Garland didn't get a single offensive rebound

You were the one that wanted to boil it down to specific moments where he passed up a wide open shot. I don't want my max-contract 21 year old All Star PG to be reduced to someone that can only shoot when he is wide open in the 4th quarter of a closeout game.

The Cavs needed Darius in the 4th quarter. Mitchell was struggling with the knee. Allen was out. Mobley was hobbling. The bench guys didn't have it. We needed our max contract PG to produce. Instead we got...

-(11:43) Darius Garland bad pass (Cole Anthony steals)
-(6:19) Darius Garland out of bounds lost ball turnover
-(5:34) Darius Garland shooting foul
-(4:31) Darius Garland bad pass (Franz Wagner steals)
-(2:56) Darius Garland 8 second turnover
-(2:28) Darius Garland defensive rebound
-(0:02) Darius Garland misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot

Do want him to wave off Mitchell when Mitchell wants the ball? I mean it's kind of difficult for Darius to record an assist when the ball is in Mitchell's hands. It's kind of difficult to take a shot as well. Be specific in what you're suggesting Garland should've done.

YES.

I want to see Darius Garland much more engaged in the offense. I want him to come off a high pick and roll screen with the mindset of getting to the rim/initiating contact. I want to see him working off a screen for an open 3 when Donovan has the ball and all eyes are on him. I want to see Garland get the ball on an outlet and push the pace instead of slow-walking it up the court. I just want him to be more aggressive. I have been begging for aggression from him for 6 games now. He can't be a 15 point/6 assist guy.

It isn't all on Garland. The offensive coaching from JBB has been terrible. We make no adjustments to anything Orlando is doing. With that being said, if Garland wants to be a star, he needs to demand the ball and look to score when things get tight in the 4th quarter. He was far too comfortable with passing to Donovan and clearing out late in the game. He is far too comfortable casually walking the ball up the court.

He is just far too comfortable being a jag.

[jbk1234]

I said Darius Garland shied away on the offensive end during the 4th quarter. The reason I said that is...

1. Darius Garland didn't attempt a single shot until a meaningless 31 foot attempt with 2 seconds left
2. Darius Garland didn't register a single assist
3. Darius Garland didn't get a single offensive rebound

You were the one that wanted to boil it down to specific moments where he passed up a wide open shot. I don't want my max-contract 21 year old All Star PG to be reduced to someone that can only shoot when he is wide open in the 4th quarter of a closeout game.

The Cavs needed Darius in the 4th quarter. Mitchell was struggling with the knee. Allen was out. Mobley was hobbling. The bench guys didn't have it. We needed our max contract PG to produce. Instead we got...

-(11:43) Darius Garland bad pass (Cole Anthony steals)
-(6:19) Darius Garland out of bounds lost ball turnover
-(5:34) Darius Garland shooting foul
-(4:31) Darius Garland bad pass (Franz Wagner steals)
-(2:56) Darius Garland 8 second turnover
-(2:28) Darius Garland defensive rebound
-(0:02) Darius Garland misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot

Do want him to wave off Mitchell when Mitchell wants the ball? I mean it's kind of difficult for Darius to record an assist when the ball is in Mitchell's hands. It's kind of difficult to take a shot as well. Be specific in what you're suggesting Garland should've done.

YES.

I want to see Darius Garland much more engaged in the offense. I want him to come off a high pick and roll screen with the mindset of getting to the rim/initiating contact. I want to see him working off a screen for an open 3 when Donovan has the ball and all eyes are on him. I want to see Garland get the ball on an outlet and push the pace instead of slow-walking it up the court. I just want him to be more aggressive. I have been begging for aggression from him for 6 games now. He can't be a 15 point/6 assist guy.

It isn't all on Garland. The offensive coaching from JBB has been terrible. We make no adjustments to anything Orlando is doing. With that being said, if Garland wants to be a star, he needs to demand the ball and look to score when things get tight in the 4th quarter. He was far too comfortable with passing to Donovan and clearing out late in the game. He is far too comfortable casually walking the ball up the court.

He is just far too comfortable being a jag.

I mostly agree with this save the following: (1) Too many Cavs fans vastly overrate the efficacy of pushing the pace against good defensive teams. It's often counterproductive when the other team is good at getting back. Also, all of Mobley, Garland, Mitchell, and Strus were pretty gassed by the 4th quarter.

(2) As a general concept, I like the idea of Garland getting going the start the game and Mitchell closing. Also, I'm a feed the hot hand guy. Finally, if the defense is giving something up, keep going at it until they stop you. It just got way, way too extreme yesterday. You can't have Mitchell taking all but 1 shot during an 11 minute stretch in the 4th.

(3) If Garland has to start waving Mitchell off, particularly on a night where Mitchell feels like he has it going, there are probably going to be ramifications for that. You want that to come from the coaching staff, or ideally, Mitchell himself.

(4) The parting shot is really, really unfair IMO.

[JujitsuFlip]

I said Darius Garland shied away on the offensive end during the 4th quarter. The reason I said that is...

1. Darius Garland didn't attempt a single shot until a meaningless 31 foot attempt with 2 seconds left
2. Darius Garland didn't register a single assist
3. Darius Garland didn't get a single offensive rebound

You were the one that wanted to boil it down to specific moments where he passed up a wide open shot. I don't want my max-contract 21 year old All Star PG to be reduced to someone that can only shoot when he is wide open in the 4th quarter of a closeout game.

The Cavs needed Darius in the 4th quarter. Mitchell was struggling with the knee. Allen was out. Mobley was hobbling. The bench guys didn't have it. We needed our max contract PG to produce. Instead we got...

-(11:43) Darius Garland bad pass (Cole Anthony steals)
-(6:19) Darius Garland out of bounds lost ball turnover
-(5:34) Darius Garland shooting foul
-(4:31) Darius Garland bad pass (Franz Wagner steals)
-(2:56) Darius Garland 8 second turnover
-(2:28) Darius Garland defensive rebound
-(0:02) Darius Garland misses 31-foot three point pullup jump shot

Do want him to wave off Mitchell when Mitchell wants the ball? I mean it's kind of difficult for Darius to record an assist when the ball is in Mitchell's hands. It's kind of difficult to take a shot as well. Be specific in what you're suggesting Garland should've done.

YES.

I want to see Darius Garland much more engaged in the offense. I want him to come off a high pick and roll screen with the mindset of getting to the rim/initiating contact. I want to see him working off a screen for an open 3 when Donovan has the ball and all eyes are on him. I want to see Garland get the ball on an outlet and push the pace instead of slow-walking it up the court. I just want him to be more aggressive. I have been begging for aggression from him for 6 games now. He can't be a 15 point/6 assist guy.

It isn't all on Garland. The offensive coaching from JBB has been terrible. We make no adjustments to anything Orlando is doing. With that being said, if Garland wants to be a star, he needs to demand the ball and look to score when things get tight in the 4th quarter. He was far too comfortable with passing to Donovan and clearing out late in the game. He is far too comfortable casually walking the ball up the court.

He is just far too comfortable being a jag.

Since September of 2022 the Cavs clear pecking order on offense has been...

1. Mitchell and it's not close.
2. Garland
3a. LeVert
3b. Mobley
5. Allen

[jbk1234]

If you want more evidence of the lack of aggression I see form Garland for the series, look at the free throw numbers.

Darius Garland: 8 free throw attempts in 6 games
-Jalen Suggs: 25 free throw attempts in 6 games

Garland is supposed to be the offensive guy. These numbers show that he just isn't putting any kind of pressure on the defense. I am upset because I know Garland is capable of so much more.

That's one read of what those numbers show.

[Hoop Hunter]

I’m not going to blame the guy who dropped 50 on high efficiency and had an all around game. You might want to look to the disappointment that’s Evan Mobley. My man scored 3 points in 30 plus minutes. This is why Mitchell is as good as gone.

Of course Mobley only got 3 points, he only got 5 shots mostly on contested 2nd shot attempts. Hard to get in any kind of rhythm when the only way to get the ball out of your guard's hands is to knock him out and take it... Mitchell wants his bigs to be garbagemen who defend, rebound and give him the ball, nothing more. He pissed Gobert off, just like he'll piss of Mobley and Allen, if he hasn't already. And no, neither Mobley or Allen are Hakeem with a thousand moves and counters, but they're more then they're allowed to be when the shutter come down over Mitchell's eyes.

How is Mobley not a garbage man? He can’t score from outside of 8ft. On the season he shot about 30% from 8ft+. It seems apparent that ORL doesn’t respect his 3pt shooting (which was improved this year but on low volume). Mobley has no midrange game and can’t post up or iso. I guess you could give him the ball more but it’s not going to result in any good offense.

In an extended playoff series teams are going to start taking away what you’re good at. That’s not much when it comes to Mobley.

Mobley has been big disappointment in my eyes. So much potential it seemed after his rookie season, but he really hasn't improved much.

[Rishkar]

He scored 50 points. How can you guys fault him for that? He had the hot hand and he was very efficient.

Because this is a pattern from Mitchell. He's a great individual talent, but he never elevated a teams offense or makes people around him better. Pretty awful as a passer, defender, rebounder, and leader. I always feel guilty about the haul Cleveland gave us for him

Tell us you haven’t been watching Cleveland this year without telling us you haven’t been watching Cleveland this year. Mitchell is actually a very good passer and defensively he’s actually been very good.

I haven't watched Cleveland this year, but I've heard he's improved in those areas. I just won't believe it until I see it. I watched the Cavs Magic game today and he wasn't creating shots for others

[Iwasawitness]

Because this is a pattern from Mitchell. He's a great individual talent, but he never elevated a teams offense or makes people around him better. Pretty awful as a passer, defender, rebounder, and leader. I always feel guilty about the haul Cleveland gave us for him

Tell us you haven’t been watching Cleveland this year without telling us you haven’t been watching Cleveland this year. Mitchell is actually a very good passer and defensively he’s actually been very good.

I haven't watched Cleveland this year, but I've heard he's improved in those areas. I just won't believe it until I see it. I watched the Cavs Magic game today and he wasn't creating shots for others

And as long as he continues to play center full time, you're going to continue to see that. Mobley just isn't used to doing it. You can tell there's a clear difference between when he plays PF and when he plays C. On one hand, at PF he's better offensively but his defensive impact is reduced a bit. But I've noticed that when he has played center this year, he's been arguably the best defensive player in the league but his offense is severely reduced.

[Wingy]

That's not even fair

has Spida ever even missed the playoffs?

Lavine is Beal tier

I would say Spida is atleast a much better leader than those two but I do agree about the Rudy thing, obviously with how great Minny is, it's clear why those Jazz teams were so great. I think Lavine is a loser but I don't feel that way about MItchell. I just don't think he's good enough to get you over the top but he'll def win you some games.

Not fair to Lavine probably that he has the label he has despite the complete crap team situations he has been in. I for one am in the minority that doesn’t think an individual (not just Lavine) is a ‘loser’ for the horrid sin of being unable to elevate some crappy roster to playoff wins. Know what that translates to? You’re a ‘loser’ if you’re not bonafide superstar (a way overused term imo) level. What a guy like Lavine has done wrong is failing to be a Luka, or SGA, or Joker. That’s the level of player you’d need to lift the craptacular teams Lavine’s been on.

So calling Don a well off man’s version isn’t intended to be an insult because my opinion of Lavine is higher than most despite his obvious and well chronicled issues. You probably wouldn’t feel the way you do about Lavine either if he was backed by Rudy, a really good PG in prime Conley, and surrounded by actual shooters. Do people think he’d drag that unit down and out of the playoffs cause he’s a ‘loser?’

My point is that reputations are often very circumstantial. Mitchell’s an incredible individual player. You pay good money to watch kinda guy. Despite his talents, I just see his team success being capped exactly because of his individualistic game. Donovan takes over the ball, and everybody else becomes a Tito.

[Wingy]

But I also think Mitchell is on a completely different level from Zach, especially in crunch time. Lavine's under-rated but he makes awful decisions if you give him the ball late in games. Spida OTOH can be your closer, and that makes a huge difference. It's why last season I suggested a multi team deal that would've sent the Cavs Lavine + Anunoby for Mitchell and I still think that the gap between the two is an elite supporting piece like OG.

I disagree on completely different level, but have already talked too much about a different player in a Mitchell thread anf don’t wish to debate that. I understand why someone would feel that way. I do agree on the crunch time part though, for all the reasons you articulated. That’s what elevates Mitchell in my mind as well.

As noted above, my point is how circumstantial a player’s rep can be. Mitchell’s is pretty sterling. But the way he plays, he creates a high floor with a good cast, but I also think what’s never discussed is that his style of play also limits their ceiling. How does anyone else shine when Donovan’s doing his thing? It’s not just for kumbaya share and share alike feel goods. It’s the simple 1 doesn’t beat 5 math once you’re talking playoff teams.

[Rishkar]

Tell us you haven’t been watching Cleveland this year without telling us you haven’t been watching Cleveland this year. Mitchell is actually a very good passer and defensively he’s actually been very good.

I haven't watched Cleveland this year, but I've heard he's improved in those areas. I just won't believe it until I see it. I watched the Cavs Magic game today and he wasn't creating shots for others

And as long as he continues to play center full time, you're going to continue to see that. Mobley just isn't used to doing it. You can tell there's a clear difference between when he plays PF and when he plays C. On one hand, at PF he's better offensively but his defensive impact is reduced a bit. But I've noticed that when he has played center this year, he's been arguably the best defensive player in the league but his offense is severely reduced.

Is Donovan playing center?