Why are Anthony Edwards impact metrics so poor relative to his hype?

[zimpy27]

Of course. SGA may not make a 65 game minimum and Jalen wouldn't get bumped down because of those votes.

Davis and LeBron were 1st All NBA in 19-20.

Yeah, I don't buy that for one second. This year, OKC was 2-5 without SGA, according to StatMuse. Williams would have to seriously pick up his game in order for what you're "thinking" to happen.

And I can only laugh when you use Davis and James as example.

Yes Williams is a second year player. Like Edwards, we are assuming they get better between age 22 and 27.

[Takingbaconback]

My question is does this efficiency statistic take into account that Edwards is playing with KAT/Gobert frontcourt, which was crucified universally for something that would never work offensively or defensively?

And I don’t think the criticism was unwarranted because it is such a strange backcourt, but for a 22 yo to figure that situation out, it’s incredible.

You can’t hate on KAT and his defense, Gobert on his offense/“inability to stay on court for playoff games”, then not acknowledge how efficient/smart/consistent Edwards has to play on both ends for the wolves to play the way they are now

The OKC guys play well too but they are all well rounded, good passers, functionally athletic from 1-5, no one clogging the lane. It’s not hard to believe the star of that team will be one of the most efficient players in league. That said SGA is one of the best players in the league regardless but just saying with the guys around him, “efficiency” (however it is calculated) seems like it would be easier to heighten

[thinktank]

Better check his playoff numbers.

And he’s 22!

The guys you mentioned are 5 years older.

This.

What were SGA’s stats at 22?

They’re comparable in RS. Ant’s scored more in the playoffs. Averaged 25 when he was 19. Then 31, and now 31 so far again. SGA averaged 13 when he was 20. Then 16 when 21.

[meekrab]

- He's a 2-way player and box score stats like WS don't pick up man defender impact that well.

I mean he's got more than 50% more DWS than OWS this season, I think his defense is being overrated by win shares, if anything.

[bledredwine]

I'm impressed with the number of concise, quality answers within just the first ten posts of this thread.

Kudos everyone.

The answer to this thread is basically all of their excellent replies combined.

[Lalouie]

Face of the league. Superstar. Best SG in the league. Things I’m seeing a lot right now. He’s basically the league darling right now. People talk about him like he’s the next Jordan. You even have insane people trying to partake in revisionist history and saying he’s in the same tier this season as Luka and SGA.

But something I find odd is he’s not well liked by impact metrics. SGA and Luka for example are .250-.270 WS/48 players which is HOF/MVP tier. Ant is at .130, which is literally not even all star tier basically. Normally players at that level are high end starters, to low end all stars. .100 is a league average player, .150 area is typically an all star, .200 is a superstar, .250-.300 is usually a first ballot HOF/Multiple time MVP (guys like MJ, Jokic, Wilt, LeBron, KG etc).

EPM has SGA and Luka at #2 and #3 for example with 8.8 and 7.9. Edwards is at 4.2 which is ranked 22nd in the league after guys like FVV. Why is his hype/reputation so much better than his impact metrics?

beware of metrics and analytics because they blur your eyeballs. if you look too close, everything gets distorted

the term "forest through the trees" comes to mind

[3ddman23]

He looks cool while he plays..... he super explosive and flashy. That's really why.

The guy is really good but he is really hyped up as well.

It's the same reason why guys like Paolo and franz or even sga( to a lesser extent) don't get any/ much attention. They aren't super flashy and explosive so nobody talks about them...

Casue it surly isn't about market size, casue both minny and orlando nobody cares about.

The nba loves promoting unicorns and flashy cool players.

[Capn'O]

Come on, man. Did you watch last night's game?

Don't be jealous. SGA is awesome.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Better check his playoff numbers.

And he’s 22!

The guys you mentioned are 5 years older.

Luka and SGA are 25. Ant is 22. Is that 5 years? As for his previous years, it’s fair. He does level up for the playoffs it seems. I’m not taking that away. Just found it weird that his impact isn’t keeping up in the data.

They’re three years older?

Someone should’ve told the OP.

Devin Booker was in the NBA finals at 24 with 35 year old Chris Paul; he hated for those same reasons Ant are loved for. We will see if the Wolves could compete in the finals in a couple years (this year maybe their best shot).

I’m not sure why there are posts hyping him to be next MJ, and I’ve seen superior Wade or Kobe comparisons (I can find it needed to). They won one playoff series, pumped the brakes on the hype train.

[Lunartic]

I’m looking at a massive 10.6 BPM in that first round series, for one thing.

But I’ll be honest, I don’t really care about stats.

Just watch him play.

When we talk superstar wings and PGs, who else is a better defender than Ant?

Not Doncic. Not SGA. Not Tatum.

Ant is the best two-way player of these stars, at the minimum.

I’m trusting Ant to shut players down more than any other star, including SGA (who gets a lot of steals but I don’t think is as good a one-on-one shut-down defender as Ant.)

I'm not arguing that Ant isn't better than Donovan, I think he is.

I disagree with the argument that Ant is much better than other players because he's a better defender. Defense is no longer 50% of the game. Majority of teams would draft an offensive superstar over a defensive superstar.

Find me a player that is average offensively and elite defensively that's worthy of a max contract. Gobert? He's considered to be overpaid by many.

SGA is a better player than Ant as is Doncic despite being a lesser defender.

Normally, I would agree.

However, the game isn’t played in a contextual-less vacuum.

Edwards may get the chance to literally guard SGA, and vice versa, in this, and future, playoffs.

That’s what matters—playoffs.

I love that matchup for Ant.

Hopefully these guys matchup for years to come and we find out some things.

For sure, it would be a very entertaining matchup

[Klomp]

Cause Ant be chilling in the regular season, he's still exploring his game which is the scary part. Clearly he has another gear in the playoffs and is able to tap into that at will.

As for who's the best SG in the league ? I think it's still comfortably SGA. I do expect Ant to be the best SG in the league by the time he's SGA age though.

We don't really know if Ant is a playoff riser or dropper. He's only played 14 playoff games his entire career

Read on Twitter

[An Unbiased Fan]

Because basketball is played on the court and not on an Excel spreadsheet.

Sure, eye test is very important. But so is the hard data that isn’t swayed by flashy highlights, or scoring outbursts alone. I’m specifically asking why the data that emphasizes all around impact doesn’t like him.

This is the problem with advanced stats, and it was brought up when they came about. Simply put, the stats we have are essentially the basic ones from the last 70 years, only with overrated formulas that play with them. Maybe with AI we'll get more stats that truly encompass what's happening on the floor, but right now they aren't

[thinktank]

Cause Ant be chilling in the regular season, he's still exploring his game which is the scary part. Clearly he has another gear in the playoffs and is able to tap into that at will.

As for who's the best SG in the league ? I think it's still comfortably SGA. I do expect Ant to be the best SG in the league by the time he's SGA age though.

We don't really know if Ant is a playoff riser or dropper. He's only played 14 playoff games his entire career

Read on Twitter

And he’s probably the 2nd or 3rd best defender on that list.

He’s a monster two-way player.

[Wolveswin]

Better check his playoff numbers.

And he’s 22!

The guys you mentioned are 5 years older.

This.

What were SGA’s stats at 22?

They’re comparable in RS. Ant’s scored more in the playoffs. Averaged 25 when he was 19. Then 31, and now 31 so far again. SGA averaged 13 when he was 20. Then 16 when 21.

Well there you go (you= stat geek guys). Revisit this page when Ant is 25. See where his stats are at same age.

[GameChannel]

I love Ant. He'd be the ideal player next to Wemby And he'd look pretty cool in a Spurs uniform.. One can only wish..

[TimberKat]

I love Ant. He'd be the ideal player next to Wemby And he'd look pretty cool in a Spurs uniform.. One can only wish..

I can do one better. Let's trade Towns and the Wolves' #1 pick for Wemby. SAS should be happy getting an all star CT/PF and a #1 pick for a rookie.

[juju14]

Ant gets a lot of help that's why. He is basically Western Conference Tatum.

Right. With clutch and more athleticism.

Wow he is? Can you show me Tatum first 15 playoffs games stats.

[thinktank]

Ant gets a lot of help that's why. He is basically Western Conference Tatum.

Right. With clutch and more athleticism.

Wow he is? Can you show me Tatum first 15 playoffs games stats.

When Tatum was 21 he was averaging 26 in the playoffs.

Edwards averaged 31 at that age.

You don’t think Edwards is as athletic as Tatum?

[juju14]

Better check his playoff numbers.

And he’s 22!

The guys you mentioned are 5 years older.

This.

What were SGA’s stats at 22?

They’re comparable in RS. Ant’s scored more in the playoffs. Averaged 25 when he was 19. Then 31, and now 31 so far again. SGA averaged 13 when he was 20. Then 16 when 21.

What was SGA first two playoffs series looking like. Matter a fact, what was his 2nd playoffs series looking like

[juju14]

Right. With clutch and more athleticism.

Wow he is? Can you show me Tatum first 15 playoffs games stats.

When Tatum was 21 he was averaging 26 in the playoffs.

Edwards averaged 31 at that age.

You don’t think Edwards is as athletic as Tatum?

Ofcourse lol i quoted the wrong person.