Jokic's great, but Lebron's style of play is overrated in terms of championship/playoff impact.

[dj20001]

10 finals disagrees.

A bunch of L's.

To better teams. Lebron's style clearly works in the play-offs, or he wouldn't have been all the way to the finals 10 times.

Which happens every year, only one team wins. We all know there's no finals streak, or even 10 finals had LBJ been playing in the west for longer, however.

[dj20001]

Nuggets SRS last year was low because of a ton of injuries and Jamal working his way back, and even then they coasted after securing #1 seed. . Even this year Jamal missed a ton of games

Kobe with Pau Gasol were swept by Dallas in the 2nd round and swept by Spurs in the 1st round, and Kobe wasn't winning anything past his prime.

2011 was weird. That team went on a 17-1 run after all-star break and looked to be getting Kobe's sixth ring. However, Bynum got hurt and Blake missed rest of season with illness. Context is important. Also, Bryant had the whole gay slur controversy and Phil Jackson had checked out and retired after that season. Bryant had to apologize, and the whole situation undermined the Lakers chemistry. That team was good enough to win without any controversy or injuries, but neither happened. I don't know why I am arguing though because Kobe has five rings and nobody doubts his championship impact. The Lakers win almost every time Kobe gets his team to the big game. Not so, Lebron.

Lmao so these are your excuses for Kobe in 2011
1) their back up PG was sick (but still played entire Dallas series and only missed first game of first round)
2) Bynum was injured (he played 54 of their last 57 regular season games and played all playoffs)
3) Kobe made a gay slur
4) Coach was checked out

You've got to be trolling

When was Kobe swept by SA with Gasol? You talking about the year Kobe didn't even play due to tearing his Achilles? Make sure YOUR own info is accurate before worrying about someone else's post.

[JN61]

Dominating ball to the extend of LeBron takes away from everyone else

[JN61]

Lebron's a regular season guy.

.
.

2nd most or the most finals losses in NBA history?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I think this makes somewhat sense once you take into account that LeBron is 39 now.
Once upon a time he was so good that some of th3 clutches he was putting in terms of coaching and team construction were not a real issue. He's not that guy anymore and LeBron-ball can take you just that far.

[footworkonpoint]

Nuggets have SRS 5.23 have a net rating on the season of +3. They are not a historically great team according to the metrics. Last year they were 3.04 and won just over 50 games. On paper the Lakers last year and maybe this year should not be losing 11 games to this squad. For example, this Nuggets team would not beat the 2017 GSW. No way. That was an all-time historically great teams that finished I think 11.5 SRS and net rating of almost +12.

There are other examples. In 2013 the the Spurs get taken to 7 by the Mavericks and then dominated the more talented Heat team 4-1. It's wasn't even that close. Maybe the most lopsided finals of all-time. In 2018 the Rockets take the GSW to 7 games (and should have won the series), and Lebron's team gets swept. GSW did not sweep any other team that season in the playoffs except Lebron's team. How do you explain that? Was Lebron's team actually the fourth or fifth best team in the NBA that year? If so, why are we giving him any credit at all for making the finals?

Either his teams are really not that good in the first place, or his teams are underperforming in the playoffs relative to expectations and compared to other results. It's not even about winning the championship. His teams are not even competitive when they lose. There are always teams that fail to be competitive, but usually there is a team context to it. Lebron's rosters have turned over more than probably any other player in the history of the NBA to make them specifically competitive in the playoffs, and it has not really worked.

For example, is Gasol is a poor man's Anthony Davis. If you put Kobe with Anthony Davis, the Lakers are winning multiple championships. They certainly are not losing 11 straight to the Nuggets, etc. That's not happening. Lebron's skill set is designed to showcase Lebron and to build his brand, and if the team wins then fine, but if not then Lebron can say that he got a triple double and then passively aggressive throw shade at the coach, his teammates, or just trade the whole team. Kobe is actually the really unselfish player, not Lebron. Lebron wants to dominate the ball in every facet. Kobe knew that he was primarily just a scorer and he sticks to his job. Kobe stays in his lane and allowed other players to maximize whatever it is they bring to the team. Kobe could play within a system that expected him to have a defined role, and hist teammates could depend on Kobe to just do his job.

Lebron is the opposite. Lebron occupying multiple team niches at once, and the problem has always been his raw stats do not convert to situational winning through team building and cohesion. Lebron is not a team guy. In fact, just the opposite. For example, right now the Lakers could potentially blow things up for Lebron. Lebron's teams are always under this constant psychological cloud on and off the court. His teams are inherently unstable because of his style of play and this off court "need more help" narrative that gets played out every off season. It's exhausting for other players, the coaches, the front offices, etc.

Nuggets SRS last year was low because of a ton of injuries and Jamal working his way back, and even then they coasted after securing #1 seed. . Even this year Jamal missed a ton of games

Kobe with Pau Gasol were swept by Dallas in the 2nd round and swept by Spurs in the 1st round, and Kobe wasn't winning anything past his prime.

2011 was weird. That team went on a 17-1 run after all-star break and looked to be getting Kobe's sixth ring. However, Bynum got hurt and Blake got chicken pox going into playoffs. Context is important. Also, Bryant had the whole gay slur controversy and Phil Jackson had checked out and retired after that season. Bryant had to apologize, and the whole situation undermined the Lakers chemistry. That team was good enough to win without any controversy or injuries, but neither happened. I don't know why I am arguing though because Kobe has five rings and nobody doubts his championship impact. The Lakers win almost every time Kobe gets his team to the big game. Not so, Lebron.

Off topic cause I don't agree with the main post but in that Laker season wasn't three rumors that Shannon brown was f***king Gasols long term gf at the time, game 1 was actually close close in the Lakers vs Dallas series no one thought it would be easy but I remember the Lakers kinda let that one slip out of there hands the whole Phil Jackson hitting Gasol in the chest definitely something weird with team chemistry going on there...

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[footworkonpoint]

Nuggets SRS last year was low because of a ton of injuries and Jamal working his way back, and even then they coasted after securing #1 seed. . Even this year Jamal missed a ton of games

Kobe with Pau Gasol were swept by Dallas in the 2nd round and swept by Spurs in the 1st round, and Kobe wasn't winning anything past his prime.

2011 was weird. That team went on a 17-1 run after all-star break and looked to be getting Kobe's sixth ring. However, Bynum got hurt and Blake missed rest of season with illness. Context is important. Also, Bryant had the whole gay slur controversy and Phil Jackson had checked out and retired after that season. Bryant had to apologize, and the whole situation undermined the Lakers chemistry. That team was good enough to win without any controversy or injuries, but neither happened. I don't know why I am arguing though because Kobe has five rings and nobody doubts his championship impact. The Lakers win almost every time Kobe gets his team to the big game. Not so, Lebron.

Lmao so these are your excuses for Kobe in 2011
1) their back up PG was sick (but still played entire Dallas series and only missed first game of first round)
2) Bynum was injured (he played 54 of their last 57 regular season games and played all playoffs)
3) Kobe made a gay slur
4) Coach was checked out

You've got to be trolling

Not making an excuse either for Kobe I don't wanna get into a back j fourth both are great Lebron is higher on the all time list not question but and that Dallas team was legit but I rememebr some major team chemistry problems soemthing happend Gasol was a shell a of himself.

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[footworkonpoint]

Well, Shannon blew it up yesterday when he hit his Twitter page to clear up any rumors that he stepped out on his wife, singer Monica, with his teammate's lady (with extra exclamation points and all caps for emphasis). Brown wrote, "Ok let me put a end to this right now before it goes any further. I DID NOT SLEEP WITH @paugasol woman!!! First and last time addressing it!"



Before this blast, it was Kobe Bryant’s wife, Vanessa Bryant, who was said to be the one who broke up Gasol’s happy home after urging his girlfriend to leave him, which sparked chatter that Kobe and Pau were at odds. I dunno exactly what happend tbh I juat remember the chemistry was s horrible all of a sudden.

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[nikster]

2011 was weird. That team went on a 17-1 run after all-star break and looked to be getting Kobe's sixth ring. However, Bynum got hurt and Blake missed rest of season with illness. Context is important. Also, Bryant had the whole gay slur controversy and Phil Jackson had checked out and retired after that season. Bryant had to apologize, and the whole situation undermined the Lakers chemistry. That team was good enough to win without any controversy or injuries, but neither happened. I don't know why I am arguing though because Kobe has five rings and nobody doubts his championship impact. The Lakers win almost every time Kobe gets his team to the big game. Not so, Lebron.

Lmao so these are your excuses for Kobe in 2011
1) their back up PG was sick (but still played entire Dallas series and only missed first game of first round)
2) Bynum was injured (he played 54 of their last 57 regular season games and played all playoffs)
3) Kobe made a gay slur
4) Coach was checked out

You've got to be trolling

When was Kobe swept by SA with Gasol? You talking about the year Kobe didn't even play due to tearing his Achilles? Make sure YOUR own info is accurate before worrying about someone else's post.

Yeah I realized right after I posted but the guy moved onto defending the dallas series

[One_and_Done]

A bunch of L's.

To better teams. Lebron's style clearly works in the play-offs, or he wouldn't have been all the way to the finals 10 times.

Which happens every year, only one team wins. We all know there's no finals streak, or even 10 finals had LBJ been playing in the west for longer, however.

Well if he's playing with an equal support cast to other stars there could have been.

[Onus]

10 finals disagrees.

I didn't read ops post because I'm sure it's ridiculous. But this argument is the weakest one for sure. If he was in the west in his career, I would honestly say he's the goat. Pretty soon we will probably be saying Jason Tatum is the goat for reaching 10 finals straight with how weak the east is now.

The jimmy butler led heat have been to 2 of the last 4 finals while being swept in the finals by the west. Why is no one saying butler is the best player in the east for this accomplishment? Because the east is weak as hell and really is an afterthought.

[Onus]

To better teams. Lebron's style clearly works in the play-offs, or he wouldn't have been all the way to the finals 10 times.

Which happens every year, only one team wins. We all know there's no finals streak, or even 10 finals had LBJ been playing in the west for longer, however.

Well if he's playing with an equal support cast to other stars there could have been.

Lebron usually has more talent than any other team and still couldn’t guarantee him championships.

[dj20001]

To better teams. Lebron's style clearly works in the play-offs, or he wouldn't have been all the way to the finals 10 times.

Which happens every year, only one team wins. We all know there's no finals streak, or even 10 finals had LBJ been playing in the west for longer, however.

Well if he's playing with an equal support cast to other stars there could have been.

The streak was helped, in part, due to no team in the east having two stars, let alone three. ATL as a 1 seed, multiple times beating teams with losing records, etc. There was quite a bit of "rest" baked into those runs. The west is a little different where a team could face all 50+ win squads during the playoffs.

[Knightfall]

I clicked in here, read like 1 line combined spread in that opening post, and realized it's probably the same troll making the same stupid posts. Scroll a little down and saw a few of the replies and said yup just as I thought it was a stupid, idiotic post full of nothing and that the guy was a fan of a rapist. just like that added the OP to my block list ensuring that I won't see anymore stupid and idiotic posts from them.

[Loneshot]

Lebron is not only the basketball GOAT, but also the GOAT of living rent free in the minds of many like the OP. SMH.

[One_and_Done]

Which happens every year, only one team wins. We all know there's no finals streak, or even 10 finals had LBJ been playing in the west for longer, however.

Well if he's playing with an equal support cast to other stars there could have been.

Lebron usually has more talent than any other team and still couldn’t guarantee him championships.

That's laughably untrue.

[The Explorer]

Lebron has been swepped in the 2000s (2007), 2010s (2018), and the 2020s, (2023). In each of these sweeps, the opponent swept only Lebron's team, and no other team was swepped. Even injured teams like the 2018 spurs got at least a game.

And people call him the greatest player of all time

[One_and_Done]

10 finals disagrees.

I didn't read ops post because I'm sure it's ridiculous. But this argument is the weakest one for sure. If he was in the west in his career, I would honestly say he's the goat. Pretty soon we will probably be saying Jason Tatum is the goat for reaching 10 finals straight with how weak the east is now.

The jimmy butler led heat have been to 2 of the last 4 finals while being swept in the finals by the west. Why is no one saying butler is the best player in the east for this accomplishment? Because the east is weak as hell and really is an afterthought.

Butler's 20, 22 & 23 play-offs runs are more impressive carry jobs than anything Kobe has ever done.

[ballzboyee]

I didn't read ops post because I'm sure it's ridiculous. But this argument is the weakest one for sure. If he was in the west in his career, I would honestly say he's the goat. Pretty soon we will probably be saying Jason Tatum is the goat for reaching 10 finals straight with how weak the east is now.

The jimmy butler led heat have been to 2 of the last 4 finals while being swept in the finals by the west. Why is no one saying butler is the best player in the east for this accomplishment? Because the east is weak as hell and really is an afterthought.

Butler's 20, 22 & 23 play-offs runs are more impressive carry jobs than anything Kobe has ever done.

Kobe did his work in the West was it's absolute peak all-time. Also, look at the quality of the top 5 defensive teams Kobe faced off against night after night in the West. With all due respect to Butler, he is not in any way in Kobe's league. In terms of Lebron, you guys him credit for beating up on these woeful East teams that wouldn't even make the playoffs in the Western Conference. Lebron's over all head-to-head records against other championship squads Lebron has won 40 percent of his games compared to a player like Kob who wins at a 62 percent clip. You guys are delusional giving Lebron credit for beating up cripple teams from the East with Dwayne Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, etc.

If you count actual teams that went on to win a championship after Lebron faced them in the playoffs, Lebron's win percentage drops to just 35 percent. Most of those games were played in his prime with multiple all-stars on his rosters. Lebron is only good enough to carry his to 1 win every 3 games during championship window. It's not an exaggeration to say he is one of the worst playoff performers ever in the history of the NBA on championship rosters. That's a fact.

[PedroFlu]

OP is a pathetic attempt at trolling, oportunistically trying to kick a down dog.

While I agree that LeBron has leadership problems and is nowadays a much more limited player than his stats say, the problem is media/public opinion need stg to talk about, so they overrate him and his team, only to be put down again.

The incredible thing is, guy may have another run next season. He's incredibly stubborn/obsessed, and will run it until wheels fall off - it's cool to see. I mean, even if he pouts during some games, he never - ever - gives up between games, series and seasons.

Tough on him, he gave his best shot and again fell off.