I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
he has a much reduced role nowadays. he better be playing defense.
raf1995 wrote:I just don’t think he has that kind of potential. I think we will regret not trading him for a haul in a few years when he’s a mid-tier starter with nice playmaking and defense and a shaky jumper.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
clippertown wrote:Just goes to show how much an offensive mindset can impact on defensive capabilities. Russ is fighting to stay in the league. There are only so many layups that a player can miss before they are seen as a liability on the floor. Russ is unable to be the scorer he once was. He has been pushed to the bench for the first time in his career. He is not even a top 4 scorer on his current team.
This proves how amazing he is as a player. Known for his unstoppable offense, when he is forced to change his role completely, he is capable of adjusting to a support role and like every other aspect of his illustrious career - he is able to elevate his game.
I definitely think there is something about these helio-centric offense guys that hurts their defense. Harden’s worst defensive years (when he was truly awful) were in HOU. Westbrook was at his worst in OKC. We’re seeing something similar with Luka right now.
It doesn’t seem tenable to have these guys soak up crazy offensive usage if you want them to play defense.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
KembaWalker wrote:I was told he was the worst player in the league and solely responsible for the Lakers failings
He was. Can you provide his defensive metrics on the Lakers? they were among the worst in the league. And replacing him with Jared Vanderbilt Lakers went from a lottery team to a team that made the WCF. If that doesn't sound like the worst player in the league, I dont know what is. If you took a player from the Charlotte Hornets in January earlier this year and replaced him with Jared Vanderbilt and the Hornets made the ECF this year, that player would easily be looked as the worst player in the league.
I know its shocking that players can be bad on one team and good on another, but if you aren't new to the NBA, you've seen it at least 100 times. JR smith on the cavs title team versus the Knicks, anyone?
Westbrook is trying a lot harder on defense on the clippers because he was humbled after his lakers experience and humbled that he is now a $5 million a year player. So he's become an effort player and that has paid dividends for his defense.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
He's doing a lot of the little things that his detractors have always begged him to do.
The defense has been pretty transformative. I always felt that despite his physical tools, Russell had some limitations on defense that weren't all mental. He looked pretty stiff hipped, which resulted in a fairly upright stance, and made him slow to switch directions. This year he's changed his stance to compensate. You can watch and see how low he gets to the ground and how wide his stance is to increase his mobility. It's not a great defensive stance for every kind of player, but it helps Russ address his main physical limitation.
I would have been such a fan of the prime version of this version of Russ. A 2-way wrecking ball who can rebound, drive and dish, and make hustle plays all over the court. I always disliked that scoring was such a priority in his game because he was always kind of bad at it. I know it's crazy to call a guy who averaged 30ppg a bad scorer, but he barely ever sniffed neutral efficiency. There's only so much you can do when you're a bad shooter with bad touch. The driving and the passing game were always more than enough to be an elite difference maker (especially if you paired that with defense) but man just loved to shoot it.
The defense has been pretty transformative. I always felt that despite his physical tools, Russell had some limitations on defense that weren't all mental. He looked pretty stiff hipped, which resulted in a fairly upright stance, and made him slow to switch directions. This year he's changed his stance to compensate. You can watch and see how low he gets to the ground and how wide his stance is to increase his mobility. It's not a great defensive stance for every kind of player, but it helps Russ address his main physical limitation.
I would have been such a fan of the prime version of this version of Russ. A 2-way wrecking ball who can rebound, drive and dish, and make hustle plays all over the court. I always disliked that scoring was such a priority in his game because he was always kind of bad at it. I know it's crazy to call a guy who averaged 30ppg a bad scorer, but he barely ever sniffed neutral efficiency. There's only so much you can do when you're a bad shooter with bad touch. The driving and the passing game were always more than enough to be an elite difference maker (especially if you paired that with defense) but man just loved to shoot it.
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
I’m not surprised honestly. He had the energy and tenacity to average a triple double. He’s always had the tool to be an elite defenders. He’s just channeling more of the trip dub energy and focus to being a great defender
Idk how good his defensive IQ is tho
Idk how good his defensive IQ is tho
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
KembaWalker wrote:I was told he was the worst player in the league and solely responsible for the Lakers failings
They literally called him a vampire
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
I don't think his defense has changed much in the last 4-5 years. It's meh. Not 'great'. Meh. He also give up more points than he scores. Which isn't great.
I think the bar for him is just set soooooo low that meh seems like 'great'.
I think the bar for him is just set soooooo low that meh seems like 'great'.
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
That failed Lakers tenure when the city turned on him for his poor showing really humbled him I think and now on the Clippers he's accepted a lesser role so he's thriving in it.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
cupcakesnake wrote:He's doing a lot of the little things that his detractors have always begged him to do.
The defense has been pretty transformative. I always felt that despite his physical tools, Russell had some limitations on defense that weren't all mental. He looked pretty stiff hipped, which resulted in a fairly upright stance, and made him slow to switch directions. This year he's changed his stance to compensate. You can watch and see how low he gets to the ground and how wide his stance is to increase his mobility. It's not a great defensive stance for every kind of player, but it helps Russ address his main physical limitation.
I would have been such a fan of the prime version of this version of Russ. A 2-way wrecking ball who can rebound, drive and dish, and make hustle plays all over the court. I always disliked that scoring was such a priority in his game because he was always kind of bad at it. I know it's crazy to call a guy who averaged 30ppg a bad scorer, but he barely ever sniffed neutral efficiency. There's only so much you can do when you're a bad shooter with bad touch. The driving and the passing game were always more than enough to be an elite difference maker (especially if you paired that with defense) but man just loved to shoot it.
Precisely. The idea that Westbrook is "proving the hates wrong" here is backwards. He's just doing what we've known he could do since back when he was Pac 10 DPOY for UCLA in college. Literally all Westbrook's struggles prior to this point are based on him playing in the heliocentric way his fans liked.
Of course the thing is: If Westbrook only ever plays his UCLA way, he never becomes MVP. Can't seriously argue that it would be better for Westbrook's career if he never went helio, but when it stopped working, he showed considerable reluctance to going back to what could still work, and that's why he spent years wandering around the NBA wilderness getting traded by one disappointed team after another until he embraced a productive mindset again with the Clippers.
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
jazzfan1971 wrote:I don't think his defense has changed much in the last 4-5 years. It's meh. Not 'great'. Meh. He also give up more points than he scores. Which isn't great.
I think the bar for him is just set soooooo low that meh seems like 'great'.
He's always competed 1-on-1 and fallen asleep in team defense. If it's performative, Russ tries.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
Westbrook has lost a step, and is compensating by improving his effort on the defensive end. It's no different than when Jordan developed a better mid-range and deep shot as his athleticism declined. Hat tip to him for admitting he might not be able to do what he used to do, how can he still improve his game to remain effective?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
I think people forgot how horrible that 2022 Lakers team was defensively. You had old man Rondo and Carmelo out there with Russ. Any defensive mistakes would be magnified because everyone else was horrible.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
cupcakesnake wrote:He's doing a lot of the little things that his detractors have always begged him to do.
The defense has been pretty transformative. I always felt that despite his physical tools, Russell had some limitations on defense that weren't all mental. He looked pretty stiff hipped, which resulted in a fairly upright stance, and made him slow to switch directions. This year he's changed his stance to compensate. You can watch and see how low he gets to the ground and how wide his stance is to increase his mobility. It's not a great defensive stance for every kind of player, but it helps Russ address his main physical limitation.
I would have been such a fan of the prime version of this version of Russ. A 2-way wrecking ball who can rebound, drive and dish, and make hustle plays all over the court. I always disliked that scoring was such a priority in his game because he was always kind of bad at it. I know it's crazy to call a guy who averaged 30ppg a bad scorer, but he barely ever sniffed neutral efficiency. There's only so much you can do when you're a bad shooter with bad touch. The driving and the passing game were always more than enough to be an elite difference maker (especially if you paired that with defense) but man just loved to shoot it.
Very well said. I wasn’t observant enough to notice the hip or stance difference, but the don’t doubt it either. I was shocked seeing him slide his feet so decently lately. I remember he did a damn good job on Booker in the playoffs last year to end the game with a steal, block and stop in game one vs the Suns.
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
It's funny how we're giving Westbrook credit for FINALLY giving a damn about defense 15 years into his career. It's took him years of being a complete embarrassment to accept a lesser role, something he should have done years ago. His refusal to play defense, refusal to improve 3 or and ft shooting, refusal to play defense, and stay padding rebounds to the detriment of his team is a huge stain on his legacy.
Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
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Re: I don’t think Russell Westbrook becoming a great defender at 35 was predicted by many?
Westbrook has always been great defender if he wants to play that side of ball. His issue has always been the commitment. He has history of shutting down players and playing clutch defense in the playoffs.
Pennebaker wrote:And Bird did it while being a defensive liability. But he also made All-Defensive teams, which was another controversial issue regarding Bird and votes.