2024 NBA Playoffs - West 1st Round: #4 Los Angeles Clippers vs #5 Dallas Mavericks (DAL WINS 4-2)

[MrGoat]

so for all the Maxi haters --- Dallas is losing the minutes with any of the 3 centers on the court. They are losing them the least with Maxi. He's been good defensively in this series. Like he always is. He's a very good defensive player. He doesn't block shots out of bounds a lot so its not as visually impressive, but he's good.

The problem is Kidd has to put a 5th guy out there with Luka/Kyrie/PF/DJJ. They've all struggled. But as I look at that roster I think I'd trust Maxi more than anyone else too. I don't blame Kidd for that. When they went to the WCF, he was one of the 5 guys Kidd could trust that year. Kidd is going to remember that.

Stop worrying about his box scores, they will never impressive. Stop overreacting to the floaters in one quarter. Variance is a bitch, sorry.

Dude you're better than that, can't just use plus/minus for everything. Did you watch the 4th quarter? Harden exploited Maxi. It was very clear for the eyes to see.

Plus minus does not paint the entire picture, it only shows what the team did while you were in or not in the game. It doesn't mean that one player was responsible. I think it works when you're saying Luka was off the court and the team was a -8 than saying the team was a -5 while Lively was in there.

The plus minus needs some context if you're going to use it.

Game 1: Kleber +6 Lively -19
Game 2: Kleber +9 Lively +4
Game 3: Kleber -6 Lively +5
Game 4: Kleber -10 Lively +4

Lively's +/- numbers are dragged down by an outlier game 1 where Kleber mainly got to avoid that fate by playing in garbage time. Lively has been a positive ever since. Kleber's only positive performance of consequence was in game 2 where he shot well and was along for the ride when PJ Washington got uncharacteristically hot. Kidd choosing to completely forgo rim protection in that 4th quarter is a decision he is deservedly being roasted for

[ChipotleWest]

so for all the Maxi haters --- Dallas is losing the minutes with any of the 3 centers on the court. They are losing them the least with Maxi. He's been good defensively in this series. Like he always is. He's a very good defensive player. He doesn't block shots out of bounds a lot so its not as visually impressive, but he's good.

The problem is Kidd has to put a 5th guy out there with Luka/Kyrie/PF/DJJ. They've all struggled. But as I look at that roster I think I'd trust Maxi more than anyone else too. I don't blame Kidd for that. When they went to the WCF, he was one of the 5 guys Kidd could trust that year. Kidd is going to remember that.

Stop worrying about his box scores, they will never impressive. Stop overreacting to the floaters in one quarter. Variance is a bitch, sorry.

Dude you're better than that, can't just use plus/minus for everything. Did you watch the 4th quarter? Harden exploited Maxi. It was very clear for the eyes to see.

Plus minus does not paint the entire picture, it only shows what the team did while you were in or not in the game. It doesn't mean that one player was responsible. I think it works when you're saying Luka was off the court and the team was a -8 than saying the team was a -5 while Lively was in there.

The plus minus needs some context if you're going to use it.

Game 1: Kleber +6 Lively -19
Game 2: Kleber +9 Lively +4
Game 3: Kleber -6 Lively +5
Game 4: Kleber -10 Lively +4

Lively's +/- numbers are dragged down by an outlier game 1 where Kleber mainly got to avoid that fate by playing in garbage time. Lively has been a positive ever since. Kleber's only positive performance of consequence was in game 2 where he shot well and was along for the ride when PJ Washington got uncharacteristically hot. Kidd choosing to completely forgo rim protection in that 4th quarter is a decision he is deservedly being roasted for

What was Maxi in the 4th quarter?

Nevermind, forgot he played the entire 4th quarter, so a -1. See that doesn't paint what happened really at all. So because Kyrie went nuclear on offense Maxi deserves credit for that, whatever.

[PeteyPablo]

James Harden accolades


Career highlights and awards NBA Most Valuable Player (2018) 10× NBA All-Star (2013 – 2022) 6× All-NBA First Team (2014, 2015, 2017 – 2020) All-NBA Third Team (2013) NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2012) 3× NBA scoring champion (2018 – 2020) 2× NBA assists leader (2017, 2023)


So why are people surprised or mad at this man?

[MrGoat]

Dude you're better than that, can't just use plus/minus for everything. Did you watch the 4th quarter? Harden exploited Maxi. It was very clear for the eyes to see.

Plus minus does not paint the entire picture, it only shows what the team did while you were in or not in the game. It doesn't mean that one player was responsible. I think it works when you're saying Luka was off the court and the team was a -8 than saying the team was a -5 while Lively was in there.

The plus minus needs some context if you're going to use it.

Game 1: Kleber +6 Lively -19
Game 2: Kleber +9 Lively +4
Game 3: Kleber -6 Lively +5
Game 4: Kleber -10 Lively +4

Lively's +/- numbers are dragged down by an outlier game 1 where Kleber mainly got to avoid that fate by playing in garbage time. Lively has been a positive ever since. Kleber's only positive performance of consequence was in game 2 where he shot well and was along for the ride when PJ Washington got uncharacteristically hot. Kidd choosing to completely forgo rim protection in that 4th quarter is a decision he is deservedly being roasted for

What was Maxi in the 4th quarter?

Nevermind, forgot he played the entire 4th quarter, so a -1. See that doesn't paint what happened really at all. So because Kyrie went nuclear on offense Maxi deserves credit for that, whatever.

He played the entire quarter, so a -1. But the Mavs had a putrid 147.8 defensive rating in that quarter. If Kyrie wasn't going nuclear it would have been much worse. Harden hit 3 shots near the rim in a row at one point during that quarter, all with Maxi in the vicinity.

[ChipotleWest]

The plus minus needs some context if you're going to use it.

Game 1: Kleber +6 Lively -19
Game 2: Kleber +9 Lively +4
Game 3: Kleber -6 Lively +5
Game 4: Kleber -10 Lively +4

Lively's +/- numbers are dragged down by an outlier game 1 where Kleber mainly got to avoid that fate by playing in garbage time. Lively has been a positive ever since. Kleber's only positive performance of consequence was in game 2 where he shot well and was along for the ride when PJ Washington got uncharacteristically hot. Kidd choosing to completely forgo rim protection in that 4th quarter is a decision he is deservedly being roasted for

What was Maxi in the 4th quarter?

Nevermind, forgot he played the entire 4th quarter, so a -1. See that doesn't paint what happened really at all. So because Kyrie went nuclear on offense Maxi deserves credit for that, whatever.

He played the entire quarter, so a -1. But the Mavs had a putrid 147.8 defensive rating in that quarter. If Kyrie wasn't going nuclear it would have been much worse. Harden hit 3 shots near the rim in a row at one point during that quarter, all with Maxi in the vicinity.

We're saying exactly the same thing. +/- is mostly a useless stat for that reason. Maxi deserves no credit for Kyrie going off on offense. Instead he's only a -1, he should be like -15 or 20.

[ChipotleWest]

James Harden accolades


Career highlights and awards NBA Most Valuable Player (2018) 10× NBA All-Star (2013 – 2022) 6× All-NBA First Team (2014, 2015, 2017 – 2020) All-NBA Third Team (2013) NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2012) 3× NBA scoring champion (2018 – 2020) 2× NBA assists leader (2017, 2023)


So why are people surprised or mad at this man?

Nobody is surprised or mad at Harden, that isn't what the discussion is about at all. How about just stick to worrying about your team?

[Bob8]

What was Maxi in the 4th quarter?

Nevermind, forgot he played the entire 4th quarter, so a -1. See that doesn't paint what happened really at all. So because Kyrie went nuclear on offense Maxi deserves credit for that, whatever.

He played the entire quarter, so a -1. But the Mavs had a putrid 147.8 defensive rating in that quarter. If Kyrie wasn't going nuclear it would have been much worse. Harden hit 3 shots near the rim in a row at one point during that quarter, all with Maxi in the vicinity.

We're saying exactly the same thing. +/- is mostly a useless stat for that reason. Maxi deserves no credit for Kyrie going off on offense. Instead he's only a -1, he should be like -15 or 20.

It's not Kleber's fault, Mavs should have defended Harden, seeing how easily he went past primarily defender every time, differently with or without Kleber in the roster. Kidd can say whatever he wants, you don't let anyone to do the same thing again and again in the clutch.

[ChipotleWest]

He played the entire quarter, so a -1. But the Mavs had a putrid 147.8 defensive rating in that quarter. If Kyrie wasn't going nuclear it would have been much worse. Harden hit 3 shots near the rim in a row at one point during that quarter, all with Maxi in the vicinity.

We're saying exactly the same thing. +/- is mostly a useless stat for that reason. Maxi deserves no credit for Kyrie going off on offense. Instead he's only a -1, he should be like -15 or 20.

It's not Kleber's fault, Mavs should have defended Harden, seeing how easily he gets past primarily defender, differently with or without Kleber in the roster. Kidd can say whatever he wants, you don't let anyone to do the same thing again and again in the clutch.

Did you not see him just stand there several times and let Harden score? Lively would not have done that. It is Maxi's fault, or more specifically, Kidd's fault for thinking he could be the only big for an entire quarter.

[Bob8]

We're saying exactly the same thing. +/- is mostly a useless stat for that reason. Maxi deserves no credit for Kyrie going off on offense. Instead he's only a -1, he should be like -15 or 20.

It's not Kleber's fault, Mavs should have defended Harden, seeing how easily he gets past primarily defender, differently with or without Kleber in the roster. Kidd can say whatever he wants, you don't let anyone to do the same thing again and again in the clutch.

Did you not see him just stand there several times and let Harden score? Lively would not have done that. It is Maxi's fault, or more specifically, Kidd's fault for thinking he could be the only big for an entire quarter.

It's the wrong formation to defend floater. In the moment Harden goes past his defender, it's to late to do anything. If Kleber goes out it's easy dunk for Zubac. Lively wouldn't change much. Kidd for some reason believed that they can stop Harden 1on1, they couldn't, end of story. They for sure could have defended Harden and Clippers differently and rather risk some other shot from someone else, who wasn't that hot. Saying that he was more afraid of 3-pointer after giving away game is kinda funny. Whatever they would have done it couldn't ended worse.

[ChipotleWest]

It's not Kleber's fault, Mavs should have defended Harden, seeing how easily he gets past primarily defender, differently with or without Kleber in the roster. Kidd can say whatever he wants, you don't let anyone to do the same thing again and again in the clutch.

Did you not see him just stand there several times and let Harden score? Lively would not have done that. It is Maxi's fault, or more specifically, Kidd's fault for thinking he could be the only big for an entire quarter.

It's the wrong formation to defend floater. In the moment Harden goes past his defender, it's to late to do anything. If Kleber goes out it's easy dunk for Zubac. Lively wouldn't change much. Kidd for some reason believed that they can stop Harden 1on1, they couldn't, end of story. They for sure could have defeated Harden differently and rather risk some other shot from someone else. Saying that he was more afraid of 3-pointer after giving away game is kinda funny. Whatever they did couldn't ended worse.

Stop it, there was no floaters or lobs when Lively was in there. You guys with your excuses for Maxi are sad. It's just not necessary.

[NBA4Lyfe]

crazy first 4 playoff games for harden..

Playoff ranks

TS%
1st : Harden
2nd : Jokic

WS
1st : Jokic
2nd : Harden

WS/48
1st : Jokic
2nd : Harden

BPM
1st : Jokic
2nd : Harden

VORP
1st : Jokic
2nd : Harden

But will it last?

[Bob8]

Did you not see him just stand there several times and let Harden score? Lively would not have done that. It is Maxi's fault, or more specifically, Kidd's fault for thinking he could be the only big for an entire quarter.

It's the wrong formation to defend floater. In the moment Harden goes past his defender, it's to late to do anything. If Kleber goes out it's easy dunk for Zubac. Lively wouldn't change much. Kidd for some reason believed that they can stop Harden 1on1, they couldn't, end of story. They for sure could have defeated Harden differently and rather risk some other shot from someone else. Saying that he was more afraid of 3-pointer after giving away game is kinda funny. Whatever they did couldn't ended worse.

Stop it, there was no floaters or lobs when Lively was in there. You guys with your excuses for Maxi are sad.

Because Harden was not beating his defender as easily as he was in last 5 minutes. Washington is normally pretty good, but Harden toyed with him. Team has coaches and time outs to make adjustments, Kidd didn't do anything.

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[ChipotleWest]

It's the wrong formation to defend floater. In the moment Harden goes past his defender, it's to late to do anything. If Kleber goes out it's easy dunk for Zubac. Lively wouldn't change much. Kidd for some reason believed that they can stop Harden 1on1, they couldn't, end of story. They for sure could have defeated Harden differently and rather risk some other shot from someone else. Saying that he was more afraid of 3-pointer after giving away game is kinda funny. Whatever they did couldn't ended worse.

Stop it, there was no floaters or lobs when Lively was in there. You guys with your excuses for Maxi are sad.

Because Harden was not beating his defender easily as he was in last 5 minutes. Washington is normally pretty good, but Harden toyed with him.

So you're saying Maxi is completely blameless. He was the last line of defense. That's the job of a rim protector. How much protection did he provide? I would say practically none.

Team has coaches and time outs to make adjustments, Kidd didn't do anything.

Agreed, that's what I've been saying for over 100 posts. Except the adjustment should have been put Lively in. For some reason you don't agree because Maxi was fantastic.

Harden never scored more points in the paint in a quarter in his entire career.

[Bob8]

Stop it, there was no floaters or lobs when Lively was in there. You guys with your excuses for Maxi are sad.

Because Harden was not beating his defender easily as he was in last 5 minutes. Washington is normally pretty good, but Harden toyed with him.

So you're saying Maxi is completely blameless. He was the last line of defense. That's the job of a rim protector. How much protection did he provide? I would say practically none.

Harden was not playing pick&roll, Zubac was not making screens, he was under the basket all the time. So tell me, what should Kleber do. Leave Zubac alone? Kidd should change D on Harden, when he saw how self confident and hot he's.

[ChipotleWest]

Because Harden was not beating his defender easily as he was in last 5 minutes. Washington is normally pretty good, but Harden toyed with him.

So you're saying Maxi is completely blameless. He was the last line of defense. That's the job of a rim protector. How much protection did he provide? I would say practically none.

Harden was not playing pick&roll, Zubac was not making screens, he was under the basket all the time. So tell me, what should Kleber do. Leave Zubac alone?

You still haven't explained why this wasn't an issue when Lively was in the game.

And actually to answer your question, the answer is yes you live with the lob over just standing there looking confused "do I cover Zubac, do I cover Harden, I dunno so I'll cover neither"

[MrGoat]

It's the wrong formation to defend floater. In the moment Harden goes past his defender, it's to late to do anything. If Kleber goes out it's easy dunk for Zubac. Lively wouldn't change much. Kidd for some reason believed that they can stop Harden 1on1, they couldn't, end of story. They for sure could have defeated Harden differently and rather risk some other shot from someone else. Saying that he was more afraid of 3-pointer after giving away game is kinda funny. Whatever they did couldn't ended worse.

Stop it, there was no floaters or lobs when Lively was in there. You guys with your excuses for Maxi are sad.

Because Harden was not beating his defender as easily as he was in last 5 minutes. Washington is normally pretty good, but Harden toyed with him. Team has coaches and time outs to make adjustments, Kidd didn't do anything.

Washington was afraid to get too aggressive because he knew he didn't have backside help, and Harden is a very smart player and took full advantage of that. That's why the Mavs hemorrhaged easy paint points in the clutch

They tanked the end of last season to get a guy to address that, that guy led all rookies in win shares. Only to completely ignore him in the 4th quarter and roll with the same guy this team has a clear ceiling with because Kidd is an unimaginative coach

[Bob8]

So you're saying Maxi is completely blameless. He was the last line of defense. That's the job of a rim protector. How much protection did he provide? I would say practically none.

Harden was not playing pick&roll, Zubac was not making screens, he was under the basket all the time. So tell me, what should Kleber do. Leave Zubac alone?

You still haven't explained why this wasn't an issue when Lively was in the game.

And actually to answer your question, the answer is yes you live with the lob over just standing there looking confused "do I cover Zubac, do I cover Harden, I dunno so I'll cover neither"

You're forgetting that Harden is playing Iso with 1 defender on him. If you want blame someone you should primarily blame defenders on Harden. But knowing that we have a coach and timeouts, you would have expected from coach to figure something out.

[ChipotleWest]

Stop it, there was no floaters or lobs when Lively was in there. You guys with your excuses for Maxi are sad.

Because Harden was not beating his defender as easily as he was in last 5 minutes. Washington is normally pretty good, but Harden toyed with him. Team has coaches and time outs to make adjustments, Kidd didn't do anything.

Washington was afraid to get too aggressive because he knew he didn't have backside help, and Harden is a very smart player and took full advantage of that. That's why the Mavs hemorrhaged easy paint points in the clutch

They tanked the end of last season to get a guy to address that, that guy led all rookies in win shares. Only to completely ignore him in the 4th quarter and roll with the same guy this team has a clear ceiling with because Kidd is an unimaginative coach

Exactly, we had Maxi last year when we didn't make the playoffs and early this year when we were probably a play in team. We drafted Lively and traded for Gafford and it changed our team, only for Kidd to sabotage it at the worst time. I bet they're both pissed off too

[bisme37]

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