Has Anthony Edwards Surpassed Jayson Tatum?

[Woodsanity]

Tatum doesn't really impress me in the playoffs. The only time he impressed me was when he destroyed Chokebiid but come on its Chokebiid here.

[thinktank]

Hell yeah.

I don't care what others think or how premature this is.
I've seen enough.

Now, "have the Wolves surpassed the Celtics" is another discussion.

I think that’s a great point:

A lot of people point to “Tatum has already done X, Y, Z in the playoffs and Ant hasn’t.” False. The Celtics did that together, as a deep team. Nobody wins in the playoffs alone.

They’re the storied Boston Celtics and Ant plays for the Wolves.

That’s no slight against Ant’s individual talents.

[Bad-Thoma]

After reading RealGM I feel like Tatum is underappreciated but then I remember that it's RealGM, people are way more active tearing people down then propping them up. So for this thread I just want to point that at the age of 26 years old Tatum is already 44th in all time playoff scoring. The only player in the top 50 with less games or minutes is Bob Petit, who is 50th. Tatum is an elite defender with elite length on top of it and is pulling down over 10 boards a game in the playoffs. He is absolutely a 1st team all NBA player and will be a HOFer someday.

As for the OP's question I don't think so but I am definitely biased. Ant is a fantastic player, I'd say more unstoppable one on one than Tatum offensively and isn't a slouch on the other end of the floor. If I were judging solely on scoring I'd say he is better, but it's only one facet of the game. Before I'd say he is better than Tatum I'd want to see more of a body of work. Tatum has been deep in the playoffs with a lot of different versions of the Celtics and with years missing a lot of important players due to injuries and that doesn't happen by accident, he has grown into a complete player.

[tsherkin]

I wouldn't call it a scoring bias, though you're right that I prioritize scoring.

Potato, potato, at some point.

I just believe that all of the greatest or near all of the greatest championship teams have an elite scorer.
Lebron, Dirk, Wade, MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, etc.

Suuuuuure, but does it really matter if they're regularly contending, especially if they do win a title? And what of the RS value difference?

I do consider assist numbers overrated and inflated in the PER metric, and in general in the current era in particular.

Not sure how you got here. We weren't talking about PER, since this isn't 2004. Nor were we speaking of assists, really.

You see a Dirk as a number one option but generally not a Rondo or Jason Kidd.

Kidd was a primary playmaker and an extremely skillful defender who led a team to the Finals twice, though, so clearly as a centerpiece player, he did fine in-era. Not a good example.

Rondo was a low-usage guy who is primarily known for barely shooting and letting Boston's set offense unfold while he pounded the rock ahead of a basic chest pass to someone curling off a screen. The Rondo Assist. Not sure why you'd bring him up.

Yes, there is a threshold where you are looking for a certain degree of scoring threat so you can put pressure on a defense in order to drive team offense, but you also don't need to be a 30+ ppg scorer in order to do that.

Everyone's important, but an unstoppable scorer provides a consistency in the greatness of the team.

Sure, they help, but I think it's important not to miss the key correlations here. Someone like Adrian Dantley or Kevin Durant have less value than their upper-tier peers who are also high-end creators, for example, despite their ridiculous scoring efficiency and volume, you know what I mean?

There are different routes people can take in order to dominate on offense.

[srhcan]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

[tsherkin]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

[GiannisAnte34]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

Tatum benefits from being on a great franchise. If he was on the Bulls or Raptors nobody would ever talk about him as a serious MVP candidate

[Exp0sed]

After reading RealGM I feel like Tatum is underappreciated but then I remember that it's RealGM, people are way more active tearing people down then propping them up. So for this thread I just want to point that at the age of 26 years old Tatum is already 44th in all time playoff scoring. The only player in the top 50 with less games or minutes is Bob Petit, who is 50th. Tatum is an elite defender with elite length on top of it and is pulling down over 10 boards a game in the playoffs. He is absolutely a 1st team all NBA player and will be a HOFer someday.

As for the OP's question I don't think so but I am definitely biased. Ant is a fantastic player, I'd say more unstoppable one on one than Tatum offensively and isn't a slouch on the other end of the floor. If I were judging solely on scoring I'd say he is better, but it's only one facet of the game. Before I'd say he is better than Tatum I'd want to see more of a body of work. Tatum has been deep in the playoffs with a lot of different versions of the Celtics and with years missing a lot of important players due to injuries and that doesn't happen by accident, he has grown into a complete player.

I don't get this argument and it's only argument repeated over and over in Tatum's case, accolades are great but this isn't a level playing field

Tatum was selected high in the draft by an already good team. usually teams that pick high tend to be bad teams.
as a rookie he was a part of a 55-27 season, Celtics had a young Jaylen Brown, prime Kyrie, prime Horford, 23 year old Smart and Rozier and a few other decent players in their primes like Marcus Morris, Theis,Aaron Baynes etc.

most players don't get that opportunity so soon. Buddy hield played his first playoff game this season, for example haha

the Celtics have continued to be a powerhouse and a perennial ECF team (or better) throughout his career. has he contributed to that? well, duh...but comparing his total playoff stats without context is just meaningless as most players in NBA history didn't get to start for an eite playoff team ever since they were rookies, season after after season

Tatum is indeed a great defender and a heck of a player but he's not better than ANT and citing commulative playoff stats is comparing apples to oranges

[tsherkin]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

Tatum benefits from being on a great franchise. If he was on the Bulls or Raptors nobody would ever talk about him as a serious MVP candidate

Maybe.

Entirely irrelevant to what srhcan just said, and likewise to my response.

[DarkAzcura]

After reading RealGM I feel like Tatum is underappreciated but then I remember that it's RealGM, people are way more active tearing people down then propping them up. So for this thread I just want to point that at the age of 26 years old Tatum is already 44th in all time playoff scoring. The only player in the top 50 with less games or minutes is Bob Petit, who is 50th. Tatum is an elite defender with elite length on top of it and is pulling down over 10 boards a game in the playoffs. He is absolutely a 1st team all NBA player and will be a HOFer someday.

As for the OP's question I don't think so but I am definitely biased. Ant is a fantastic player, I'd say more unstoppable one on one than Tatum offensively and isn't a slouch on the other end of the floor. If I were judging solely on scoring I'd say he is better, but it's only one facet of the game. Before I'd say he is better than Tatum I'd want to see more of a body of work. Tatum has been deep in the playoffs with a lot of different versions of the Celtics and with years missing a lot of important players due to injuries and that doesn't happen by accident, he has grown into a complete player.

I don't get this argument and it's only argument repeated over and over in Tatum's case

Tatum was selected high in the draft by an already good team. usually teams that pick high tend to be bad teams.
as a rookie he was a part of a 55-27 season, Celtics had a young Jaylen Brown, prime Kyrie, prime Horford, 23 year old Smart and Rozier and a few other decent players in their primes like Marcus Morris, Theis,Aaron Baynes etc.

most players don't get that opportunity. the Celtics have continued to be a powerhouse and a perennial ECF team (or better) throughout his career. has he contributed to that? well, duh...but comparing his total playoff stats without context is just meaningless as most players in NBA history didn't get to start for an eite playoff team ever since they were rookies, season after after season

Tatum is indeed a great defender and a heck of a player but he's not better than ANT and citing commulative playoff stats is comparing apples to oranges

Magic got to. Kobe as well. Duncan. Not saying Tatum is on their tier, but there have been plenty of great players who got to start on great teams right off the bat, and their stats aren’t thrown out either. The context matters less than you think probably, tbh. At the end of his career all they will see is how much he put up statistically + his awards. Maybe context should weigh in more, but it typically never does. Kobe may be hurt by it because some don’t really ‘count’ his first 3 championships, but he’s still regarded as a top 6-12 player all time depending who you talk to despite being drafted to a perfect situation.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

Tatum benefits from being on a great franchise. If he was on the Bulls or Raptors nobody would ever talk about him as a serious MVP candidate

Yeah Tatum sucks

[Exp0sed]

Magic got to. Kobe as well. Duncan. Not saying Tatum is on their tier, but there have been plenty of great players who got to start on great teams right off the bat, and their stats aren’t thrown out either. The context matters less than you think probably, tbh. At the end of his career all they will see is how much he put up statistically + his awards. Maybe context should weigh in more, but it typically never does. Kobe may be hurt by it because some don’t really ‘count’ his first 3 championships, but he’s still regarded as a top 6-12 player all time depending who you talk to despite being drafted to a perfect situation.

you just named three players. I didn't say no great player was ever selected straight into a dominant team situation, but 99% of great players (who are usually picked high in the draft) - didn't have that luxury

I won't derail this with a Kobe debate, i'm much lower on Kobe than most he's def not in my top 12.

there is another matter here which is the eras, Tatum has played his career at the scoring inflation \ pace and space era, that helps too. it's the same reason every year now this player or other is breaking scoring and PER records

citing stuff like how rare it is for Tatum to have X number of playoff points by 26 is completely disingenious.
it ignores Tatum being a huge outlier in terms of him starting for a great playoff team in his rookie season and every season since,
it ignores the scoring inflation and it ignores the fact that most players (even great ones) didn't come to the league at 19, so they never had even a theorethical chance to play 7 full seasons by 26.

Tatum's durable tho, i'll give him that. that helps him as well to accumalte these stats but it's very negligble if we're focused on commulative playoff stats it def helped him too, but not nearly as much as being on a great team and in this era - have helped him

Tatum's a great player and any team will be glad to have him but let's get real plz.

edit: if these accolades are all that, then i'm sure every franchise would rather build around Tatum than around Ant, right?
30/30 GM's and owners pick ANT in a heartbeat. the "X number of playoff points before age Y" is great for captions on televised games and for future NBA trivia questions but it's pretty irrelvant otherwise

[DarkAzcura]

Magic got to. Kobe as well. Duncan. Not saying Tatum is on their tier, but there have been plenty of great players who got to start on great teams right off the bat, and their stats aren’t thrown out either. The context matters less than you think probably, tbh. At the end of his career all they will see is how much he put up statistically + his awards. Maybe context should weigh in more, but it typically never does. Kobe may be hurt by it because some don’t really ‘count’ his first 3 championships, but he’s still regarded as a top 6-12 player all time depending who you talk to despite being drafted to a perfect situation.

you just named three players. I didn't say no great player was ever selected straight into a dominant team situation, but 99% of great players (who are usually picked high in the draft) - didn't have that luxury

I won't derail this with a Kobe debate, i'm much lower on Kobe than most he's def not in my top 12.

there is another matter here which is the eras, Tatum has played his career at the scoring inflation \ pace and space era, that helps too. it's the same reason every year now this player or other is breaking scoring and PER records

citing stuff like how rare it is for Tatum to have X number of playoff points by 26 is completely disingenious.
it ignores Tatum being a huge outlier in terms of him starting for a great playoff team in his rookie season and every season since,
it ignores the scoring inflation and it ignores the fact that most players (even great ones) didn't come to the league at 19, so they never had even a theorethical chance to play 7 full seasons by 26.

Tatum's durable tho, i'll give him that. that helps him as well to accumalte these stats but it's very negligble if we're focused on commulative playoff stats it def helped him too, but not nearly as much as being on a great team and in this era - have helped him

Tatum's a great player and any team will be glad to have him but let's get real plz.

edit: if these accolades are all that, then i'm sure every franchise would rather build around Tatum than around Ant, right?
30/30 GM's and owners pick ANT in a heartbeat. the "X number of playoff points before age Y" is great for captions on televised games and for future NBA trivia questions but it's pretty irrelvant otherwise

I only named some of the greatest players to ever play the game, lol. I don’t have a whole list of players in my head. Barkley was also drafted into a great situation. Jerry West was drafted on to a team with Baylor already on it. There are probably many others. Not all great players played on crappy teams and organizations to begin with. It shouldn’t be held against players that are.

[Jaqua92]

I'm not sure I'd consider Ant a better scorer due to the smaller sample size.

He's definitely having a better scoring stretch than Tatum ever has.

That said, Tatum is a more versatile offensive player who impacts the game more. He's a better passer, a smarter playmaker, and has a more controlled tempo.

Defensively, he's just better.

I do think Ant will be better.

Right now? Tatum is just the better player, Ant is just having a better stretch.

If Tatum wasn't shooting 27% from 3 after shooting 38% for the year, they'd be much closer this post season imo

[SonicMcMahon]

Ant isn't better on the defensive end. He's also not been proven to be a better scorer, outside of 6 playoff games.

At this point, it's actually based on 16 playoff games, not 6. Just FWIW.

I can't believe you just told him to f*** his mother, just because he got the playoff games sample wrong.

Huh? Please don't post inappropriate trollish nonsense thanks. -b

[GiannisAnte34]

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

Tatum benefits from being on a great franchise. If he was on the Bulls or Raptors nobody would ever talk about him as a serious MVP candidate

Maybe.

Entirely irrelevant to what srhcan just said, and likewise to my response.

A word to the wise is sufficient, I think I understood his message better than you tried to pick it apart

[WentzerWuver]

It's crazy to see the giant leap/improvement Edwards has made from last season to this season. He's still raw but man he's got that dog in him and he wants it. Tatum we all know is great but he seems to be on cruise control sometimes and doesn't have that "IT" factor like Edwards does to take over games.

Curious what y'all take is on this?

Tatum will always be better than your lover or did you missed yesterday game. It's what Winners do without trash talking super stars.

[tsherkin]

Ant isn't better on the defensive end. He's also not been proven to be a better scorer, outside of 6 playoff games.

At this point, it's actually based on 16 playoff games, not 6. Just FWIW.

I can't believe you just told him to f*** his mother, just because he got the playoff games sample wrong.

What are you on about?

Tatum benefits from being on a great franchise. If he was on the Bulls or Raptors nobody would ever talk about him as a serious MVP candidate

Maybe.

Entirely irrelevant to what srhcan just said, and likewise to my response.

A word to the wise is sufficient, I think I understood his message better than you tried to pick it apart

If you specifically quote someone, then what you write should actually relate to what they had posted.

[srhcan]

Ant > Tatum. Tatum is a system player.

That... is the least sensible description of Tatum I have seen yet.

You know he had the second-most isolation sets in the entire league behind just Doncic during the RS, right? Literally, only Luka and Shai scored more off of isos than Tatum. You realize how violently inaccurate is your assessment?

System player mean he is playing on a great team which has a great system in place and thus the system is showing him as much better player than he (allegedly) is. This has been a knock on him from start and will remain there on his career, until he goes to a different team and reaches even higher heights on that team. Kawhi was also called system player before he removed that label with his performance with Raptors.

[LaLover11]

Tatum is the Batum of Durants