Rudy Gobert DPOY

[Bergmaniac]

Well deserved once again.

I mean, I'm not trying to take it all away from him but the best adjustment Wolves made was putting KAT on Jokic instead of Gobert.

That wasn't an adjustment, that was their plan from the start of the series. And that's how they have defended Jokic when KAT is on the court and not in foul trouble since last year.

[ChipotleWest]

Well deserved once again.

I mean, I'm not trying to take it all away from him but the best adjustment Wolves made was putting KAT on Jokic instead of Gobert.

That wasn't an adjustment, that was their plan from the start of the series. And that's how they have defended Jokic when KAT is on the court and not in foul trouble since last year.

Regardless, I think they just gave him the award because Wolves were the best defensive team. Let's say there was an Offensive Player of the year award, it would look silly to give that award to just the best player on the best offense. But with defense there's less obvious stats than offense.

[FreeBird23]

Well deserved once again.

I mean, I'm not trying to take it all away from him but the best adjustment Wolves made was putting KAT on Jokic instead of Gobert.

They have done it all series. Gobert was there to help KAT.
They are the best defensive team because they have learned from him.

[Mr Puddles]

I can't be the only one hoping France will play a twin tower line-up this summer at FIBA.

[stitches]

Well deserved once again.

I mean, I'm not trying to take it all away from him but the best adjustment Wolves made was putting KAT on Jokic instead of Gobert.

That wasn't an adjustment, that was their plan from the start of the series. And that's how they have defended Jokic when KAT is on the court and not in foul trouble since last year.

I have no idea how NBA fans don't get this. Do they actually watch and understand what is happening on the floor... especially defensively? The Jazz have been doing this for a decade and Minny is doing the same now.

Gobert's value has never been as a one-on-one defender. This is NOT why he's 4 time DPOY. Gobert doesn't guard one player... he guards all opponents in the paint as a help defender(that's why he is usually put against the worst offensive player/shooter of the opponent so he can roam and affect the whole paint as a help defender). And he's the best defender in PnR where he needs to cover in compromised 2-on-1 situations both the roller and the ballhandler at the same time until his teammate recovers. And of course this kind of a defensive assignment allows his teams to have some interesting conveniences that seems counter-intuitive... like not just having one of the best rim defenses in the league, but also having one of the best 3p defenses in the league, simply because Gobert allows them that luxury of staying with the shooters.

It's truly a joy to watch this Minny team buy in and execute defensively around Gobert. I wish our(Jazz) FO tried to build something similar, rather than expecting Gobert to be able to compensate and cover for tons and tons of defensive sieves on the perimeter for ages.

[Ambrose]

Hopefully people stop the slander. Gobert is an amazing defensive player who had a tough matchup, and still fared well.

[dhsilv2]

I mean, I'm not trying to take it all away from him but the best adjustment Wolves made was putting KAT on Jokic instead of Gobert.

That wasn't an adjustment, that was their plan from the start of the series. And that's how they have defended Jokic when KAT is on the court and not in foul trouble since last year.

Regardless, I think they just gave him the award because Wolves were the best defensive team. Let's say there was an Offensive Player of the year award, it would look silly to give that award to just the best player on the best offense. But with defense there's less obvious stats than offense.

It would make a lot of sense in a lot of years to give the best offensive player on the best offensive team the award. Often they very much deserve it. Guys like Nash, Curry, Magic, West, Jordan...would all have a lot of those awards and deserving so. Gobert was outstanding in this series on the defensive end and was a huge reason his team won the series.

What you rarely would want to do is have the DPOY man defending the other team's best offensive player. The apex defenders are best defending in space and zones. Your tier two defenders tend to be your point of attack defensive specialists who you'd want on the ball. Sometimes you have a guy who's both...but you get less value when they're on a man vs a zone. This has never been more true than today but even back to the days of Duncan...the spur's first choice was to have someone else pickup the other team's top offensive guy if at all possible and to let Duncan roam off a non scorer if possible.

[Domejandro]

Well deserved once again.

I mean, I'm not trying to take it all away from him but the best adjustment Wolves made was putting KAT on Jokic instead of Gobert.

That has been their gameplan for two seasons, now. That never changed.

The entire reason why Rudy Gobert was so valuable in the Denver series is that he limited driving lanes and (most importantly) largely eliminates Nikola Jokić's ability to operate with Aaron Gordon in high-low action. Disallowing Aaron Gordon to operate offensively is the crux of Minnesota's gameplan against Denver.

[GunnerWRX]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

[cupcakesnake]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

How about you create a new award called "Best man-to-man defender of the year" and give that to Jrue Holiday or whoever you think deserves it.

In terms of what it means to be a defensive "star"... man-to-man defense on its own is more of a defensive role player skill. The real anchors over the history of the NBA have been guys who mess up opponent offense at the team level. Look at the other guys who won this award 4 times: Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo. Do you think Rodney Rogers, Tyrone Hill, Rasheed, or Cliff Robinson deserve their trophies?

Your comment also kind shows you just watch the highlights. Particularly in the highlight of Jokic's incredible game 5. Because if you were actually watching all the Jokic/Gobert possessions or knew the numbers, you'd know that Jokic had the hardest time scoring on Gobert. He definitely got Gobert a several times in dramatic fashion, but that's not what defense is.

Fans like man-to-man defense because it's easy to notice. If you want to really dig in to what defensive impact is though, there's way more to it than that and man-to-man defense is a smaller part of the puzzle than you might expect.

[GunnerWRX]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

How about you create a new award called "Best man-to-man defender of the year" and give that to Jrue Holiday or whoever you think deserves it.

In terms of what it means to be a defensive "star"... man-to-man defense on its own is more of a defensive role player skill. The real anchors over the history of the NBA have been guys who mess up opponent offense at the team level. Look at the other guys who won this award 4 times: Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo. Do you think Rodney Rogers, Tyrone Hill, Rasheed, or Cliff Robinson deserve their trophies?

Your comment also kind shows you just watch the highlights. Particularly in the highlight of Jokic's incredible game 5. Because if you were actually watching all the Jokic/Gobert possessions or knew the numbers, you'd know that Jokic had the hardest time scoring on Gobert. He definitely got Gobert a several times in dramatic fashion, but that's not what defense is.

Fans like man-to-man defense because it's easy to notice. If you want to really dig in to what defensive impact is though, there's way more to it than that and man-to-man defense is a smaller part of the puzzle than you might expect.

I watched the NBA long enough to saw Ben Wallace guarding Shaq man-up, and The Glove guarding MJ, unlike what Gobert was doing against Jokic.

What you say is expected from a Wolves fan, along with making accusations that "you only watch highlights". Which is not true at all.

I am a Warriors fan so I have seen how modern team defense work - hiding Steph and all that - funneling to Bogut in 14-15 - then the all-switching defense later on.

Good luck though as I am rooting for the Wolves to win it all this this season. It is funny some fans try to defend their team's players by "flexing" their bball knowledge like they know more than the other person behind a screen, without knowing who they are talking to at all and how much that person knows.

[Baseline81]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

Dikembe Mutombo won the DPOY in 2001.

His 76ers went up against the Lakers in the NBA Finals. Here are Shaq's numbers:

Game 1: 44 pts, 20 reb, 5 ast, 0 blk
Game 2: 28 pts, 20 reb, 9 ast, 8 blk
Game 3: 30 pts, 12 reb, 3 ast, 4 blk
Game 4: 34 pts, 14 reb, 5 ast, 0 blk
Game 5: 29 pts, 13 reb, 2 ast, 5 blk

[stitches]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

Who lied to you that Gobert is not able to guard his own position? He's still one of the best defenders in the league guarding his own position. That's just not the best way to utilize him. I have stopped keeping track on those stats since we traded him to Minny, but he was keeping Embiid to shooting in the low 40s for his career when matched up, he was keeping AD to TS in the high 40s too... The one guy he's always had trouble with has been Jokic. And Jokic is quite possibly the best offensive center of this generation, if not of all time. This is just the game... offensive players are freaking amazing in today's league, they are skilled, they can shoot, they can drive, they can pass, they can punish you in multiple ways. And Jokic has been doing this against pretty much everybody in the league for the last 4-5 years. Great offensive players will have great offensive games even against the best of defenders.

It's also... kind of peculiar all the noise about 8/9 vs Jokic in game 5 people were happy to run with, while conveniently forgetting to mention that he was 11/28 in the 4(3) games before that. But what can you do... stupid narratives are not easy to squash... and every chance they get to be perpetuated is taken without hesitation and without a second of thought and while ignoring mountains of evidence to the contrary. If you were believing all those narratives you would think it was Donovan Mitchell, Jordan Clarkson, Bojan Bogdanovic Royce O'Nealle, Georges Niang and Rudy Gay that were making the Jazz defense top of the league and not Gobert. Despite the Jazz defense turning into bottom 3 defense in the league the moment Gobert got injured, while being top 5 when he was in.

[kveble]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

Who do you want to give the DPOY award then?

If Wemby, see how well he guarded his own position against Embiid.

[DimesandKnicks]

So is Kat a good defender now?

[Ritzo]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

In most cases, guarding 5 guys around the basket is always more impactful than guarding just 1 guy. There's a reason why wing defenders rarely get this award. Gobert guards space, he's not just there to guard his man.

[Handlez]

Gobert haters will never stop.

Always something.

[AussieBuck]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

How about you create a new award called "Best man-to-man defender of the year" and give that to Jrue Holiday or whoever you think deserves it.

In terms of what it means to be a defensive "star"... man-to-man defense on its own is more of a defensive role player skill. The real anchors over the history of the NBA have been guys who mess up opponent offense at the team level. Look at the other guys who won this award 4 times: Ben Wallace and Dikembe Mutombo. Do you think Rodney Rogers, Tyrone Hill, Rasheed, or Cliff Robinson deserve their trophies?

Your comment also kind shows you just watch the highlights. Particularly in the highlight of Jokic's incredible game 5. Because if you were actually watching all the Jokic/Gobert possessions or knew the numbers, you'd know that Jokic had the hardest time scoring on Gobert. He definitely got Gobert a several times in dramatic fashion, but that's not what defense is.

Fans like man-to-man defense because it's easy to notice. If you want to really dig in to what defensive impact is though, there's way more to it than that and man-to-man defense is a smaller part of the puzzle than you might expect.

You get a whole lot of one on one analysis with a lot of fans. Gobert is a great man and help defender generally, he just happens to be a not so amazing post defender. Happens a lot with lanky dudes. Lots of them fold when getting hit in the sternum, countless dudes like that who would prefer to make a little room and try to time dudes without the hit and sometimes it comes unstuck against the greats.

Pau Gasol **** cooked Rudy in the low post being way more shoulder focused than he otherwise would. **** happens, most shotblockers like to avoid getting hit when they want to jump for timing purposes even if they are fine getting hit.

What I'm actually getting at past the above waffle is that you can have a great defensive impact team-wide while individually getting outplayed. Who doesn't love a big man who'll go to war one on one and also clean up your mess though?

Hard to **** Gobert and then also just waive away that a team with KAT and an ancient Conley starting is a defensive juggernaut.

[Crunch 99]

The right call. And I get so tired of people equating just number of blocks to quality of defense:

Gobert ranked sixth in the league with 2.1 blocked shots per game and limited opponents to 45.2% effective field goal percentage, the lowest among 38 players to contest at least 1,000 shots, according to Second Spectrum data. He ranked fourth in defensive rebounds with 9.2 per game.

His presence also served as a major deterrent. According to Second Spectrum, opponents attempted only 21.6% of their shots from inside the restricted area when Gobert was on the court, which would have ranked the lowest among any team this season. That increased to 26.7% when he was off the floor, which would have rated as the sixth-highest among teams.

The Timberwolves held opponents to 56.6% shooting on dunk and layup attempts, the lowest rate in the NBA.

Gobert's dominance extended beyond the paint. He thrived in switch situations, allowing the fewest points per direct isolations among players to defend at least 175 isolation possessions, according to Second Spectrum tracking. He also excelled as a pick-and-roll defender, allowing the third-fewest points per direct pick among screener defenders to defend at least 1,000 on-ball picks.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40102549/timberwolves-rudy-gobert-named-defensive-player-year

↑ Worth repeating.

[BadaBoom]

Create a new award called "Best Help Defender Of The Year".

Don't get me wrong. I know how Gobert affects defense and I like how he makes a defensive impact, but seeing a 4-time DPOY not being able to guard his own position, and shoved around, is very awkward.

I propose a little exercise:
1- Take whichever "man to man" defensive player of the year fitting your description in the last 30 years.
2- Check his playoffs 1/1 defense against a top 5 player (Jokic is more a top1 but let's widen the scope to ease things up)
3- Tell us who actually was able to shut-down a top 5 player in a playoffs series

Spoiler:

Nobody, this is a myth. Generational offensive players will get their cookie. What you must hope for is that your generational defender can lighten his effect on the game