Shouldn't Jerry Sloan be fired after 20 years with no rings?

[Optimus_Steel]

Man this is one stupid thread. Why would you fire one of the best coaches in basketball?

[Egg Nog]

So even as a ring is not the only or sufficient condition to judge a player, to be truly considered as one of the greatest, you need at least one.

I don't see how this somehow disproves my point. The existence of people without rings on MVP lists and in the hall of fame should show that you do not necessarily need a ring to be considered great. Naturally, having one of these players on your team massively increases your chances of winning. Greats will tend to have rings, but statistically it's just a simple correlation.

You don't need at least one ring. There is a reason why hall-of-fame performance is based on someone's entire career. The league understands circumstance.

If you need a ring to be considered a great, then the guy who leads the league in all-time steals and assists (by a large margin) is not a "great". That's just flat-out wrong.

So is Hakeem a great then? Would he not be if Jordan stayed in the league?

What if Jordan had never been paired with Pippen? He certainly wouldn't have somehow been less skillful.

Would Malone and Stockton be considered great if Pippen had been injured and the Jazz won?

The NBA put Barkley in the hall-of-fame for a reason. They understand that regardless of circumstance, great basketball is great basketball. True and great individual talent should be rewarded regardless of external influence.

The point is, these things (which would have likely led to a change in history) are external of a player's individual capabilites and are thus not a surefire method of judging a basketball player. There are lots of scrubs with rings and lots of great players (even some "true" greats, as how helped show) without them.

[SabasRevenge!]

I agree that circumstance has a lot to do with it; there are a lot of great players without rings. Still, our perception or a player changes when we see them hugging that trophy. We'd see Barkley, Stockton, and Malone in a different light if they had rings. They're still great players and belong in the HOF, but they're not champions.

Sloan may be one of the greatest coaches of all time, but not winning a ring sets him apart from the other greats. Phil Jackson has found himself in some great situations. A professional coach would have to be a fool to go all those years with MJ and Pippen or Shaq and Kobe and not have at least a few rings. Phil is a very good coach, maybe a great coach, and he happened to have the best players in the NBA on his teams. Could the same be said about Sloan? How do you have arguably the best pure PG and the best PF of all time on your team, in their prime, and not come away with a ring?

[Joseph17]

Put Sloan as the coach of the Suns, Celtics, or Spurs and see what happens. He's always making the most of the guys on his roster. He's definitely a top 5 coach.

[carrottop12]

The NBA is a business whether you like it or not, and any business owner will tell you, 20 years of sustained great out put with a product that sells beats 1 very good year every 7 years or so.

Fans might not like it, but it's the truth.

[Falstaff]

Well, it's pretty much all been said. I think it's clear Sloan is a great coach, and his record is excellent despite no rings. His rosters have just never had quite enough to get him there. When he had his best team in its prime, he was facing Jordan's Bulls. That's just bad luck. The Jazz would have beaten anyone else. Now, when he has a less talented, younger team he still manages to get them to the conference finals. Since the retirement of Stockton/Malone, he's been fairly consistent in getting Utah to overachieve in comparison to expectations.

Here's a better questions though: How is it possible that he's never won coach of the year, when dubious coaches like Doc Rivers and Sam Mitchell have won the award for doing essentially the same thing - coaching an overachieving team?

[Hard2dhole]

Here's a better questions though: How is it possible that he's never won coach of the year, when dubious coaches like Doc Rivers and Sam Mitchell have won the award for doing essentially the same thing - coaching an overachieving team?

Excellent question. you should start that as a thread.

[Typhoon20]

How do you have arguably the best pure PG and the best PF of all time on your team, in their prime, and not come away with a ring?

Because they had to face the greatest player of all time ?

[pace31]

The NBA's just like any other business. If you have an employee that's been very very good for 20 years do you fire them? Absolutely not unless their production has fallen way off which Sloan's hasn't. Some people have wondered if this team could maybe flourish under another system and I'm curious to see what someone else could do, but he's still doing a very good job with the team. Sloan will leave at the moment he wants to and it's no one else's decision.

[a-rod]

Well, it's pretty much all been said. I think it's clear Sloan is a great coach, and his record is excellent despite no rings. His rosters have just never had quite enough to get him there. When he had his best team in its prime, he was facing Jordan's Bulls. That's just bad luck. The Jazz would have beaten anyone else. Now, when he has a less talented, younger team he still manages to get them to the conference finals. Since the retirement of Stockton/Malone, he's been fairly consistent in getting Utah to overachieve in comparison to expectations.

Here's a better questions though: How is it possible that he's never won coach of the year, when dubious coaches like Doc Rivers and Sam Mitchell have won the award for doing essentially the same thing - coaching an overachieving team?

Excellent Post

[Phil Jackson]

-= original quote snipped =-



Because they had to face the greatest player of all time ?

Kobe Bryant was still a rookie and he lost to them.

[Hard2dhole]

-= original quote snipped =-



Kobe Bryant was still a rookie and he lost to them.

OT Kobe=Overrated
He wasn't even the best player on his championship Laker teams.