RealGM

leswizards wrote:As long as Poole and Kuzma are getting a combined 60 mpg, I am going to be unhappy with the coaching.

However, that decision may be coming from the front office. Poole is playing better as of late, but I am not sure if he has been playing good enough to merit 30 mpg. At this point it really doesn’t matter as the season is almost over and the team is banged up. My concern is for what happens next season.

I think there are several things to this...

1) Poole is going to be here for a long time to come unless the coaching staff figures out how to make him viable. Keefe seems to have figured out where to play him to maximize his talent and trade value. Go Keefe.

2) Kuzma (and Avdija) are our two best forwards by far. Bilal may become one of those two in time, just not yet. The key will be if Keefe can get Kuz to play within himself, next year. If he does then he will maximize Kuz' trade value (with that nice declining contract) like is doing with Poole.

At this point, with as good a job as Keefe has done, he gets a lot of leeway from me. I think he actually gets it... I think he can become a very good coach over the long-term.

dckingsfan wrote:

leswizards wrote:As long as Poole and Kuzma are getting a combined 60 mpg, I am going to be unhappy with the coaching.

However, that decision may be coming from the front office. Poole is playing better as of late, but I am not sure if he has been playing good enough to merit 30 mpg. At this point it really doesn’t matter as the season is almost over and the team is banged up. My concern is for what happens next season.

I think there are several things to this...

1) Poole is going to be here for a long time to come unless the coaching staff figures out how to make him viable. Keefe seems to have figured out where to play him to maximize his talent and trade value. Go Keefe.

2) Kuzma (and Avdija) are our two best forwards by far. Bilal may become one of those two in time, just not yet. The key will be if Keefe can get Kuz to play within himself, next year. If he does then he will maximize Kuz' trade value (with that nice declining contract) like is doing with Poole.

At this point, with as good a job as Keefe has done, he gets a lot of leeway from me. I think he actually gets it... I think he can become a very good coach over the long-term.

Looking from the outside, I like the job he's done. I'm fine with him getting the full time job, at least for the next season or. 2 while we're in rebuild/development mode. He could be the Wizards Brandon Hyde.

While I think Keefe showing much better signs than WUJ so far, he's not free from criticism.

There are few reasons for that but one reason is I'm not convinced he can hold accountable the type of players who should be held accountable.

To not make it too long I'll put here just one example.

He got the permission from the FO to bench Poole. Keefe's job was to hold him accountable.

Here is Poole's FG chart of the 4'th quarter in the last 17 games:

1-7, 1-2, 1-3, 2-5, 1-7, 6-7, 1-7, 3-5, 1-4, 1-1, 3-5, 2-5, 1-6, 0-1, 2-3, 3-8, 1-5

That's: 30- 81FG (37%)

In 11 of these 17 games he took 5 or more shots in the last quarter, despite his bad shooting percentages.

There were games were it was clear as day Keefe should have drawn plays for players who were more on fire and he insisted drawing them for Poole. Not only that, he sees Poole style of play making it sometimes really hard for other players to get into rhythm, while his defense lapses hurting them, a combination that might suggest why Poole is the worst player in the entire roster in terms of Win Shares*, yet he wouldn't change much. Butler or Deni outplaying him? not important for him apparently.

*https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2024.html#advanced::20

TD;LR:
There are more good stuff he does than bad ones so far, but I'd jump on the bandwagon when I see him holding 'vets' accountable when needed (and it's needed a lot in a organization that is desperate for establishing a winning culture) and relying as less as possible on one-way type players.

Kanyewest wrote:

AFM wrote:Actual question, anyone have any info on what WUJ is doing now? Remember, he technically got a promotion LOL.

He's in the front office - he's aiming to follow in his dad's footsteps by being the GM. Maybe he's assistant to the general manager.

Shudder

Since Wes Sr. is a candidate for worst GM of all time (ok, whoever was technically doing the job when Ted Stepien owned Cleveland presided over the worst stretch but that was mainly Stepien).

Year one: Rasheed Wallace for Rod Strickland . . . and take back bad salary of Harvey Grant. Strickland put up good numbers but poor leadership, was older, and less impactful but this one is at least conventional wisdom.

Year two: Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond . . . and take back bad salary of Otis Thorpe. Richmond was in tail end of fine career. Had one decent year, Wes signed him to an above market value multiyear contract then Richmond became a bad contract, then retired. Webber led the Kings to the greatest stretch since Oscar Robertson.

Year 3: Ben Wallace (and change) for Ike Austin. Wes thought Jahidi White had more potential than Ben Wallace and Austin had just completed his career year as a solid middle of the pack offensive center, which he never matched.

Year 4: Wes Sr. moved to another job in the organization.

I loved big Wes growing up and he's the face of this franchise but he was a disaster as a GM. So don't even joke about those things.

Wes was in charge when we had the Juwan contract fiascos, wasn't he? First with cheaping out on the rookie contract, giving him an opt out after 2 years, and then with the Heat mulligan? Another one that sticks out was signing Lorenzo Williams to a 7 year contract - the Ian Mahinmi of his time.

I think the previous GM is the one that lowballed Juwan and then Miami gave him a ridiculous offer and Abe Pollin panicked and, even though the league invalidated Miami's offer and there was no real competition left, Pollin gave Juwan an even better deal than Miami had to show that we cared about him. And that 11 year contract hung like a boat anchor around the team's neck for a decade.

But no, I don't blame Wes for that one even though he was brought in after Abe fired the previous GM to offer it; that was Pollin from what I remember.

penbeast0 wrote:I think the previous GM is the one that lowballed Juwan and then Miami gave him a ridiculous offer and Abe Pollin panicked and, even though the league invalidated Miami's offer and there was no real competition left, Pollin gave Juwan an even better deal than Miami had to show that we cared about him. And that 11 year contract hung like a boat anchor around the team's neck for a decade.

But no, I don't blame Wes for that one even though he was brought in after Abe fired the previous GM to offer it; that was Pollin from what I remember.

John Nash was the GM that drafted Googs, traded for CWeb, drafted Juwan & Calbert, & Sheed. Wes came in and traded Rasheed and Webber for Strickland and Richmond. If I remember right.
..

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:I think the previous GM is the one that lowballed Juwan and then Miami gave him a ridiculous offer and Abe Pollin panicked and, even though the league invalidated Miami's offer and there was no real competition left, Pollin gave Juwan an even better deal than Miami had to show that we cared about him. And that 11 year contract hung like a boat anchor around the team's neck for a decade.

But no, I don't blame Wes for that one even though he was brought in after Abe fired the previous GM to offer it; that was Pollin from what I remember.

John Nash was the GM that drafted Googs, traded for CWeb, drafted Juwan & Calbert, & Sheed. Wes came in and traded Rasheed and Webber for Strickland and Richmond. If I remember right.
..

Rasheed was traded to Portland for Strickland. Webber was still here and played alongside Strickland for 2-3 yrs before he was traded to Sac for Richmond and Terry Davis.

DCZards wrote:

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:I think the previous GM is the one that lowballed Juwan and then Miami gave him a ridiculous offer and Abe Pollin panicked and, even though the league invalidated Miami's offer and there was no real competition left, Pollin gave Juwan an even better deal than Miami had to show that we cared about him. And that 11 year contract hung like a boat anchor around the team's neck for a decade.

But no, I don't blame Wes for that one even though he was brought in after Abe fired the previous GM to offer it; that was Pollin from what I remember.

John Nash was the GM that drafted Googs, traded for CWeb, drafted Juwan & Calbert, & Sheed. Wes came in and traded Rasheed and Webber for Strickland and Richmond. If I remember right.
..

Rasheed was traded to Portland for Strickland. Webber was still here and played alongside Strickland for 2-3 yrs before he was traded to Sac for Richmond and Terry Davis.

Thks is going to sound crazy... But I called John Nash and told him I thought he should draft Rasheed Wallace. One afternoon I literally looked up the number and just called the Bullets front office at US Air Arena and asked to speak to John Nash and he took my call. He talked to me for probably a good 15-20 minutes. He asked about the draft, and I told him they needed a Center, and I did like Cherokee Parks, but I thought Wallace would actually be a better pick. He was 6-11 and he could play center, and he wasnt a big shooter in college but he had a nice shooting stroke and would be able to shoot from the perimeter and opposing centers would have a hard time going outside to cover him, and then Webber & Howard can crash the boards. I told him a frontcourt trio of Wallace, Webber & Howard would be a matchup nightmare for teams because with their size, athleticism, skill they can all rotate between the 3,4,5 spots seamlessly, and control the boards collectively, they didnt need a traditional center. Plus they had Muresan to bring off the bench if needed. But I basically described a positionless frontcourt before it was a thing, all 3 of them had the size skill athleticism to play 3 through 5. He told me he liked Wallace, but he wasn't sure about his shooting, and I told him yeah he can shoot it, look at his stroke & release, he's got a nice touch. It was really so cool, a great conversation, he really listened to what I had to say. I can't even believe that he took my call looking back on it.

Then of course Webber had the public hissy fit about playing "out of position" at center and Rasheed had to match it and say he wouldn't play center either. They should have just called Juwan the center and played all 3 but probably couldn't have sold that to the two entitled bonus babies.

What could've been....

penbeast0 wrote:

Kanyewest wrote:

AFM wrote:Actual question, anyone have any info on what WUJ is doing now? Remember, he technically got a promotion LOL.

He's in the front office - he's aiming to follow in his dad's footsteps by being the GM. Maybe he's assistant to the general manager.

Shudder

Since Wes Sr. is a candidate for worst GM of all time (ok, whoever was technically doing the job when Ted Stepien owned Cleveland presided over the worst stretch but that was mainly Stepien).

Year one: Rasheed Wallace for Rod Strickland . . . and take back bad salary of Harvey Grant. Strickland put up good numbers but poor leadership, was older, and less impactful but this one is at least conventional wisdom.

Year two: Chris Webber for Mitch Richmond . . . and take back bad salary of Otis Thorpe. Richmond was in tail end of fine career. Had one decent year, Wes signed him to an above market value multiyear contract then Richmond became a bad contract, then retired. Webber led the Kings to the greatest stretch since Oscar Robertson.

Year 3: Ben Wallace (and change) for Ike Austin. Wes thought Jahidi White had more potential than Ben Wallace and Austin had just completed his career year as a solid middle of the pack offensive center, which he never matched.

Year 4: Wes Sr. moved to another job in the organization.

I loved big Wes growing up and he's the face of this franchise but he was a disaster as a GM. So don't even joke about those things.

I joke because it has scarred me life - especially the Webber deal was immediately when it happened. It would have been one thing if it was young players and picks but that might have been the worst I felt about a trade the day when it happened.

I waded back into this thread and was slapped in the face by the 90s Bullets nostalgia. You the man, you the man. That's the reason I'm a Bullets fan!

Came into here to say that a new coach seems to be way down the list of team needs, even with the interim label stuck to Keefe. A 15 win season is horrible no matter how you slice it but the team became more watchable with Keefe in charge - mostly I think because Poole wasn't complete garbage all the time after Wes was booted. Honestly I'm OK with bringing him back. We're going to be trash again next year anyway. If Keefe can get something more out of Poole, and we're stuck with Poole anyway, then we might as well keep him around.

9 and 20 wrote:I waded back into this thread and was slapped in the face by the 90s Bullets nostalgia. You the man, you the man. That's the reason I'm a Bullets fan!

Came into here to say that a new coach seems to be way down the list of team needs, even with the interim label stuck to Keefe. A 15 win season is horrible no matter how you slice it but the team became more watchable with Keefe in charge - mostly I think because Poole wasn't complete garbage all the time after Wes was booted. Honestly I'm OK with bringing him back. We're going to be trash again next year anyway. If Keefe can get something more out of Poole, and we're stuck with Poole anyway, then we might as well keep him around.

Agreed.

Since we are planning to tank next year, no coach with a top shelf reputation is going to take this job anyhow. We would only land a washed has-been, or a relatively obscure, untested, first time coach. We already have a relatively obscure, untested first time coach and he is doing pretty well. So I don't see a rationale to change.

A year or two down the road, after we have acquired more talent, maybe we look to add somebody like Budenholzer or a top tier college coach. But guys like that aren't coming here right now.

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

DCZards wrote:

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

John Nash was the GM that drafted Googs, traded for CWeb, drafted Juwan & Calbert, & Sheed. Wes came in and traded Rasheed and Webber for Strickland and Richmond. If I remember right.
..

Rasheed was traded to Portland for Strickland. Webber was still here and played alongside Strickland for 2-3 yrs before he was traded to Sac for Richmond and Terry Davis.

Thks is going to sound crazy... But I called John Nash and told him I thought he should draft Rasheed Wallace. One afternoon I literally looked up the number and just called the Bullets front office at US Air Arena and asked to speak to John Nash and he took my call. He talked to me for probably a good 15-20 minutes. He asked about the draft, and I told him they needed a Center, and I did like Cherokee Parks, but I thought Wallace would actually be a better pick. He was 6-11 and he could play center, and he wasnt a big shooter in college but he had a nice shooting stroke and would be able to shoot from the perimeter and opposing centers would have a hard time going outside to cover him, and then Webber & Howard can crash the boards. I told him a frontcourt trio of Wallace, Webber & Howard would be a matchup nightmare for teams because with their size, athleticism, skill they can all rotate between the 3,4,5 spots seamlessly, and control the boards collectively, they didnt need a traditional center. Plus they had Muresan to bring off the bench if needed. But I basically described a positionless frontcourt before it was a thing, all 3 of them had the size skill athleticism to play 3 through 5. He told me he liked Wallace, but he wasn't sure about his shooting, and I told him yeah he can shoot it, look at his stroke & release, he's got a nice touch. It was really so cool, a great conversation, he really listened to what I had to say. I can't even believe that he took my call looking back on it.

!!!!!

What a story!

Incredibly hard to believe, BUT: I believe you.

And the fact that he talked to you for 15 min. Unreal.

Nash had something. He had daring, and he had an eye.

badinage wrote:

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

DCZards wrote:Rasheed was traded to Portland for Strickland. Webber was still here and played alongside Strickland for 2-3 yrs before he was traded to Sac for Richmond and Terry Davis.

Thks is going to sound crazy... But I called John Nash and told him I thought he should draft Rasheed Wallace. One afternoon I literally looked up the number and just called the Bullets front office at US Air Arena and asked to speak to John Nash and he took my call. He talked to me for probably a good 15-20 minutes. He asked about the draft, and I told him they needed a Center, and I did like Cherokee Parks, but I thought Wallace would actually be a better pick. He was 6-11 and he could play center, and he wasnt a big shooter in college but he had a nice shooting stroke and would be able to shoot from the perimeter and opposing centers would have a hard time going outside to cover him, and then Webber & Howard can crash the boards. I told him a frontcourt trio of Wallace, Webber & Howard would be a matchup nightmare for teams because with their size, athleticism, skill they can all rotate between the 3,4,5 spots seamlessly, and control the boards collectively, they didnt need a traditional center. Plus they had Muresan to bring off the bench if needed. But I basically described a positionless frontcourt before it was a thing, all 3 of them had the size skill athleticism to play 3 through 5. He told me he liked Wallace, but he wasn't sure about his shooting, and I told him yeah he can shoot it, look at his stroke & release, he's got a nice touch. It was really so cool, a great conversation, he really listened to what I had to say. I can't even believe that he took my call looking back on it.

!!!!!

What a story!

Incredibly hard to believe, BUT: I believe you.

And the fact that he talked to you for 15 min. Unreal.

Nash had something. He had daring, and he had an eye.

Yeah, pretty amazing looking back on it. I remember talking to him and I was so nervous. I think he could tell and he encouraged me to tell him my opinion, he really was nice about it. In contrast I remember emailing Ted about a draft prospect I liked and getting a nasty email reply saying why did I think I knew more than their scouts and get a life, I mean it was really rude I wish I kept it.

It’s just one of those things... like I remember the team was changing their name from Bullets and the Washington Post asked for suggestions, and I wrote up this full page synopsis for the Washington Glory and why I liked it and drew a logo and stuff, and I faxed it to them. Anyway they had a follow up article listing some of the names they were sent and they said the one that they liked the most was The Glory. I was all proud of that...

Anyway, to be a young Wizards fan, full of hope and optimism.... that was a long time ago...

To get back on topic, I like Keefe staying on board. For the exit interviews the players seem to really like him and are on board, he seemed to do some positive things. It seems like a good move to reward him and see if he can keep things moving forward.

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

badinage wrote:

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

Thks is going to sound crazy... But I called John Nash and told him I thought he should draft Rasheed Wallace. One afternoon I literally looked up the number and just called the Bullets front office at US Air Arena and asked to speak to John Nash and he took my call. He talked to me for probably a good 15-20 minutes. He asked about the draft, and I told him they needed a Center, and I did like Cherokee Parks, but I thought Wallace would actually be a better pick. He was 6-11 and he could play center, and he wasnt a big shooter in college but he had a nice shooting stroke and would be able to shoot from the perimeter and opposing centers would have a hard time going outside to cover him, and then Webber & Howard can crash the boards. I told him a frontcourt trio of Wallace, Webber & Howard would be a matchup nightmare for teams because with their size, athleticism, skill they can all rotate between the 3,4,5 spots seamlessly, and control the boards collectively, they didnt need a traditional center. Plus they had Muresan to bring off the bench if needed. But I basically described a positionless frontcourt before it was a thing, all 3 of them had the size skill athleticism to play 3 through 5. He told me he liked Wallace, but he wasn't sure about his shooting, and I told him yeah he can shoot it, look at his stroke & release, he's got a nice touch. It was really so cool, a great conversation, he really listened to what I had to say. I can't even believe that he took my call looking back on it.

!!!!!

What a story!

Incredibly hard to believe, BUT: I believe you.

And the fact that he talked to you for 15 min. Unreal.

Nash had something. He had daring, and he had an eye.

Yeah, pretty amazing looking back on it. I remember talking to him and I was so nervous. I think he could tell and he encouraged me to tell him my opinion, he really was nice about it. In contrast I remember emailing Ted about a draft prospect I liked and getting a nasty email reply saying why did I think I knew more than their scouts and get a life, I mean it was really rude I wish I kept it.

It’s just one of those things... like I remember the team was changing their name from Bullets and the Washington Post asked for suggestions, and I wrote up this full page synopsis for the Washington Glory and why I liked it and drew a logo and stuff, and I faxed it to them. Anyway they had a follow up article listing some of the names they were sent and they said the one that they liked the most was The Glory. I was all proud of that...

Anyway, to be a young Wizards fan, full of hope and optimism.... that was a long time ago...

To get back on topic, I like Keefe staying on board. For the exit interviews the players seem to really like him and are on board, he seemed to do some positive things. It seems like a good move to reward him and see if he can keep things moving forward.

This probably belongs in the Terd thread but that's about par for the course for Ted. I know a builder that interviewed for doing Terd's house. He said he sat across from Ted at a comically long table and the entire interview Terd didn't look at him once, and was just incredibly rude and basically yelled at him when he said it wasn't possible to design the house, file for permits, and have the entire thing built in less than 9 months.

I'm very much in favor of keeping Keefe as head coach. The moment he took over, the player development seemed to accelerate. Next year is a player development year so why not stick with a coach that has proven that he does that well.

Besides, no top tier coaching candidate is going to want to sign with the Wizards and go 20-62 in his first season.

nate33 wrote:I'm very much in favor of keeping Keefe as head coach. The moment he took over, the player development seemed to accelerate. Next year is a player development year so why not stick with a coach that has proven that he does that well.

Besides, no top tier coaching candidate is going to want to sign with the Wizards and go 20-62 in his first season.

I was listening to Lock On Wiz podcast and they kept talking about how much the players love Coach Keefe