RealGM

nate33 wrote:Kuzma is currently averaging on per 36 basis:

30.7 points
8.4 boards
4.0 assists
2.7 turnovers
.592 TS%

He has only averaged 29.3 minutes because the starters have sat out a lot of 4th quarters, but I think he'd be averaging those numbers over 36 actual minutes if he played.

These are career high numbers for Kuzma across the board. His USG% is by far the highest of his career, yet his efficiency going by ORtg is also the highest, by a lot. His ORtg on the season is 115, his previous high is 106. And he is doing it without any outlier shooting from 3-point range. His 3P% is .353, which is in line with his 3P% average over the past 3 seasons.

He keeps this up I will have a fine meal of barbequed crow.

This is maddening. I can't fix the title of this thread. This is the Official Kyle Kuzma Thread. I merged in the Kyle Kuzma re-signs thread but it insists on keeping that title.

Can Badinage change it? Since he's the OP.

AFM wrote:Can Badinage change it? Since he's the OP.

No. I changed the title of his original post, which should change the thread title, but for some reason is stuck on the Kuzma resigns title.

Hmm. I just fixed it. The problem was, the title can't have "Re:" before it.

nate33 wrote:Kuzma is currently averaging on per 36 basis:

30.7 points
8.4 boards
4.0 assists
2.7 turnovers
.592 TS%

He has only averaged 29.3 minutes because the starters have sat out a lot of 4th quarters, but I think he'd be averaging those numbers over 36 actual minutes if he played.

These are career high numbers for Kuzma across the board. His USG% is by far the highest of his career, yet his efficiency going by ORtg is also the highest, by a lot. His ORtg on the season is 115, his previous high is 106. And he is doing it without any outlier shooting from 3-point range. His 3P% is .353, which is in line with his 3P% average over the past 3 seasons.

If anything, the numbers are even better than you describe them.

If you look at everything except scoring, Kuz is playing at a level above that of an average PF. & that's despite getting almost no steals for some reason.

He's never done that before.
Then there's his scoring! Which is absolutely stellar!

Kuz is putting up almost 80% more points than an average NBA 4, & he's doing it at a TS% that's also way above an average NBA 4.

In all... great stuff!

So, what I'm hearing you all really say is, when can we trade him and what can we get for him, right?

Benjammin wrote:So, what I'm hearing you all really say is, when can we trade him and what can we get for him, right?

I'm not in any hurry to trade him.

I mentioned a while back that Kuzma actually looks like he wants to be here, and that matters. You've got to have a couple of stable veterans to set the tone and we could do a lot worse than Kyle Kuzma - particularly under the new CBA where you have to pay somebody.

I'm fine with him as the default team leader for the next 2 years or so. In 2025-26, maybe we will have a young star-in-training who will be ready to take over the car keys, at which point maybe THEN we consider shopping Kuzma. Fortunately, we're still bad enough to land a top pick whether or not Kuzma continues to play well.

The beauty of the situation is that it is unlikely that Kuzma's value is going to diminish anytime soon. He is young enough that there should be no age-related decline, and his contract gets more attractive each year - especially when contrasted to the annual salary cap increases league wide.

?s=46

It's hard for me to judge him defensively this year given the trainwreck of a team we have, but offensively, he is playing at a Brandon Ingram/Desmond Bane level... and outplaying guys like Mikal Bridges and Tobias Harris.

Long season to go, but he could bring back a surprisingly good trade package if he doesn't regress and Dawkins plays it right.
Why?
His is locked into a cheap deal (~21M/yr after this one), can play off ball in a variety of roles/lineups, and has big game/chip experience.
Guys producing at his level make 2X salary and/or would require a boatload of assets to acquire.
Teams looking for a 3rd piece to contend have to be willing to overpay in terms of $$$ (See Beal to Suns) or assets. This limits the pool of teams that get involved... But Kuz is doable for most any top 10 team in both matching dollars and having assets, while also having enough years left on his deal for them to get their money's worth.

Guys like Brogdon, Huerter, Hart, etc. had a value of expirings and the next years 1st... That's Kuz's floor.

32/12r/8a vs Detroit is a hell of a line. That's LeBron type numbers. Respect due. But yeah, against Detroit. And he plays well back in his home state.

FAH1223 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This is great. I like Kuzma even more now.

I totally get the idea of trading Kuz for the right price. This is not an argument against not trading him at some point.

BUT I don’t get why people think you’re gonna win anything with a team led solely by a 22 or 23 year old Bilal and a bunch of other players in their early and mid-20s…such as Deni and some future draft picks.

Every young team needs a 30-32 yr old vet (or two) to lead them. That vet(s) may not be your best player but he’s likely to be a significant contributor and an important part of the winning formula.

Kuz just might be that guy for the Zards 3-4 yrs from now.

DCZards wrote:I totally get the idea of trading Kuz for the right price. This is not an argument against not trading him at some point.

BUT I don’t get why people think you’re gonna win anything with a team led solely by a 22 or 23 year old Bilal and a bunch of other players in their early and mid-20s…such as Deni and some future draft picks.

Every young team needs a 30-32 yr old vet (or two) to lead them. That vet(s) may not be your best player but he’s likely to be a significant contributor and an important part of the winning formula.

Kuz just might be that guy for the Zards 3-4 yrs from now.

I agree.

Also, I believe Kuzma's game will age really well.

Per 36

Jayson Tatum
27p-8r-4a-3 TOs
49-36-80%

Kyle Kuzma
27p-7r-5a-2 TOs
47-36-82%

DCZards wrote:Jayson Tatum
27p-8r-4a-3 TOs
49-36-80%

Kyle Kuzma
27p-7r-5a-2 TOs
47-36-82%

I agree that Kuzma has been playing very well, but this comparison is a bit misleading.

The proportion of shots taken from 3's and FT's matter too, not just the percentages. Tatum has a TS% of .617. Kuzma's is .562. That's a pretty big difference. It's why Tatum is All-NBA 1st team and Kuzma probably won't make the All Star game.

nate33 wrote:

DCZards wrote:Jayson Tatum
27p-8r-4a-3 TOs
49-36-80%

Kyle Kuzma
27p-7r-5a-2 TOs
47-36-82%

I agree that Kuzma has been playing very well, but this comparison is a bit misleading.

The proportion of shots taken from 3's and FT's matter too, not just the percentages. Tatum has a TS% of .617. Kuzma's is .562. That's a pretty big difference. It's why Tatum is All-NBA 1st team and Kuzma probably won't make the All Star game.

Of course, you’re right.

But I’d also note that Tatum is playing alongside Jrue Holiday, Jaylen Brown and KP most nights. Kuz is playing with a group of starters who would probably be bench players on most teams.

DCZards wrote:

nate33 wrote:

DCZards wrote:Jayson Tatum
27p-8r-4a-3 TOs
49-36-80%

Kyle Kuzma
27p-7r-5a-2 TOs
47-36-82%

I agree that Kuzma has been playing very well, but this comparison is a bit misleading.

The proportion of shots taken from 3's and FT's matter too, not just the percentages. Tatum has a TS% of .617. Kuzma's is .562. That's a pretty big difference. It's why Tatum is All-NBA 1st team and Kuzma probably won't make the All Star game.

Of course, you’re right.

But I’d also note that Tatum is playing alongside Jrue Holiday, Jaylen Brown and KP most nights. Kuz is playing with a group of starters who would probably be bench players on most teams.

OTOH, last year Kuz played alongside KP & Beal -- & he was far worse than he is this year.
OTOH, Kuz's best year by far was 2020-21, when he played alongside LeBron & AD. But, he was nowhere near Tatum that year either

All the same, the comparison you draw is interesting -- it provides a lot of valuable info.

We can compare the two guys' numbers per 36 minutes here: https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=tatumja01&year_min=2024&player_id1=kuzmaky01&seasons_type=forall&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=kuzmaky01

To learn something about the two guys' similarities & differences, let's look at their numbers. Now... numbers don't tell us everything by any means, but numbers over a significant sample also do not lie. They are real.

Start by looking at everything but scoring for a moment -- then, obviously, we'll come back to the two guys as scorers.

For starters, here's how I come up with a numeric total. It's very similar to how YODA works:

a. I rate each offensive board & each steal as a positive 1.
b. I rate each defensive rebound, each assist & each block as a positive .5.

On the negative side:
b. I rate each turnover as a negative 1.
b. I rate each foul as a negative .5.

Per 36 minutes, on non-scoring stuff Tatum is at +3.6 overall while Kuz is at +4.1 overall.
That's a notable (but not huge) advantage.

Then there's scoring. & as nate points out, in this arena the difference is extremely big! In Tatum's favor. Every 36 minutes, Kuz uses 2.6 more possessions than Tatum but only gets .4 more points than Tatum.

No comparison.