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NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1701 » by nate33 » Wed May 15, 2024 2:24 pm

NatP4 wrote:I think this is an archetype thing for me. I’m just not a fan of players like Edwards/Jalen Green/Booker, or even the player Bradley Beal eventually turned into. Probably why I’m lower on Ron Holland in the draft. .

Yeah, you seem to value skill and basketball IQ more so than physical attributes like length and athleticism. I think that makes you right more often than not in the short term. Smart, skilled guys tend to find their footing right away and can contribute in their first and second seasons.

But there is usually a limit to how far guys can improve if they weren't blessed with elite physical characteristics. There are exceptions like Jokic and Brunson, but skill and IQ can only take you so far. It may take longer, but sometimes, those elite athletes can keep improving to heights that less physically gifted guys can't possibly achieve.

SGA surpassed Trae, when Trae started out better.
Edwards has caught Haliburton, when Haliburton started better.
It'll be interesting to see if Kuminga and Green catch Wagner and Giddey.
Will Ivey and Jabari Smith catch Dyson Daniels and Keegan Murray?
Will Scoot Henderson catch Brandin Podziemski?
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1702 » by NatP4 » Wed May 15, 2024 2:35 pm

That’s definitely true, although I was through the roof on Coulibaly who possesses elite physical tools, sometimes it looks like safer/skilled vs upside/raw, but I’m talking specifically about the archetype of score first SG prospects that aren’t primary playmakers, and either don't guard the 3-4 positions like a true wing, or don’t have off ball 3pt shooting ability.

Been low on guys like Lavine, Jalen Green, Edwards, Ivey, Mathurin, Barrett, but was specifically not as low on Cunningham because he had off ball shooting ability/primary playmaking skills, and ability to guard 1-3 with his size.

Dyson Daniels vs Ivey is a good example. I saw Daniels as a do it all prospect with advanced feel/IQ, but specifically, could eventually be a primary playmaking PG, and also guard 1-3 effectively.

Ivey never projected as a true primary playmaker, or a guy that can guard multiple positions, and really has no off ball offensive ability to speak of.

But other examples are guys like Josh Giddey and Anthony Edwards. I’m far more prone to take prospects like Giddey (primary playmaking skills and theoretical size to guard 1-3), and less prone to take a potential Anthony Edwards.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1703 » by DCZards » Wed May 15, 2024 2:40 pm

Not seeing what you guys see in Dyson Daniels. He couldn’t even get on the court during the playoffs behind a 6ft, undrafted player (Alvarado).

I don’t think you’ll find many teams or GMs who would take Giddey over Edwards. While Ant is blowing up in the playoffs Giddey is struggling and getting about 12 mins a game against Dallas.

Giddey is a role player while Ant is already a top 10-15 NBA player…at the age of 22.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1704 » by NatP4 » Wed May 15, 2024 2:44 pm

DCZards wrote:Not seeing what you guys see in Dyson Daniels. He couldn’t even get on the court during the playoffs behind a 6ft, undrafted player (Alvarado).


That’s simple. He’s flat out elite on the defensive end already at 20 years old. His A/TO ratio is 4.3 to 1.6 turnovers, also 6.3 rebounds per 36 as a guard. His 2pt% improved dramatically this year to 55%. He’s a passable 3pt shot away from being a solid offensive player to go along with elite defense+all around production.

Will he develop offensively? Or is he a rotation role player? Who knows, but he’s only 20 years old.

And I wouldn’t have taken Giddey over Edwards at all, they weren’t even in the same draft and that wasn’t my point at all. My point was that I’m personally more prone to the Josh Giddey archetypes than the Anthony Edwards archetypes (Edwards being one of the “hits” obviously), you could substitute Dyson Daniels vs Jaden Ivey back in there as well, or Wagner vs Jalen Green for direct examples from the same draft.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1705 » by Kanyewest » Wed May 15, 2024 7:25 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:Nuggets have come back from 3-1 a couple of times in the bubble and this team is better, granted I thought the Wolves would win but I thought it was possible especially since game 1 could have gone either way.

Even though Denver has come back, I'm not sure they have the upper hand yet. They still have no answer whatsoever for Anthony Edwards.


Annnnnnnd Denver wins another blowout. Edwards (the 2nd coming of Michael Jordan) held to 5-15 shooting 4 turnovers -12.


Big thing is Conley was missing and they put Edwards at point guard- I think Edwards had something like 5 points in the 1st half and only 1 field goal. Edwards had double digits in the 2nd half with Morris to help get him going. Still a pretty bad game for him.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1706 » by tontoz » Wed May 15, 2024 8:00 pm

Malone literally came out and said their game plan was to stop Ant. They wanted to make the other guys beat them which is a lot less risky with Conley out. They were doubling Ant a lot which they hadn't done much in previous games.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1707 » by LyricalRico » Wed May 15, 2024 9:44 pm

Very interesting that the best game Minny played was without Gobert. Coincidence? Other than the fact that he can't guard Jokic 1x1 (not that anyone can, but he seemed more bothered by a rotation of athletic defenders than by the DPOY), they are also playing 4-on-5 on offense when Gobert is out there. Am I crazy?
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1708 » by penbeast0 » Wed May 15, 2024 10:21 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Very interesting that the best game Minny played was without Gobert. Coincidence? Other than the fact that he can't guard Jokic 1x1 (not that anyone can, but he seemed more bothered by a rotation of athletic defenders than by the DPOY), they are also playing 4-on-5 on offense when Gobert is out there. Am I crazy?


Gobert scored 18 points so yes, you are. He's certainly not a great offensive player nor does he have range but he's got nice touch inside and can punish you when you leave him to double. Hardly 4 on 5.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1709 » by NatP4 » Wed May 15, 2024 10:29 pm

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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1710 » by LyricalRico » Wed May 15, 2024 11:17 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Very interesting that the best game Minny played was without Gobert. Coincidence? Other than the fact that he can't guard Jokic 1x1 (not that anyone can, but he seemed more bothered by a rotation of athletic defenders than by the DPOY), they are also playing 4-on-5 on offense when Gobert is out there. Am I crazy?


Gobert scored 18 points so yes, you are. He's certainly not a great offensive player nor does he have range but he's got nice touch inside and can punish you when you leave him to double. Hardly 4 on 5.


:lol: Fair enough. Watched the game but didn't look at the box score. It didn't seem like he did much, but it's right there in black and white: 7-for-7. Maybe I've gotten so used to teams having 5 shooters on the floor that I'm blind to everything else now lol. Or I just got too invested in someone dethroning Denver early and now I'm flailing in disappointment.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1711 » by nate33 » Wed May 15, 2024 11:31 pm

Rudy has actually been very good defensively. Nobody can guard Jokic without help. Rudy does better than most. Where Rudy has hurt them is that Denver is disregarding him as an offensive threat. Denver has been doubling Anthony Edwards whenever he has the ball and leaving the weakside corner open. If the ball gets swung to the corner, Rudy's defender will rotate from the paint out to the corner and a small guard on the weak corner will generally rotate onto Rudy. Denver just isn't worried about guarding Rudy with Jamaal Murray, or KCP, or Reggie Jackson. Rudy needs to be better about sealing these midgets, posting up, and dunking over them.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1712 » by LyricalRico » Wed May 15, 2024 11:48 pm

nate33 wrote:Rudy has actually been very good defensively. Nobody can guard Jokic without help. Rudy does better than most. Where Rudy has hurt them is that Denver is disregarding him as an offensive threat. Denver has been doubling Anthony Edwards whenever he has the ball and leaving the weakside corner open. If the ball gets swung to the corner, Rudy's defender will rotate from the paint out to the corner and a small guard on the weak corner will generally rotate onto Rudy. Denver just isn't worried about guarding Rudy with Jamaal Murray, or KCP, or Reggie Jackson. Rudy needs to be better about sealing these midgets, posting up, and dunking over them.


Exactly what I was trying to say! :D :D :D
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1713 » by NatP4 » Thu May 16, 2024 1:54 am

These playoffs are really making me think Clingan is the pick at 2. The only team trying to throw a small ball/switch everything 5 out there is Cleveland. Just got dominated on the glass again. -15 in rebounds. Mobley played 43 minutes and had 7 total rebounds. That is completely ridiculous and hard to believe.

Cleveland got out rebound by 44 in 5 games.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1714 » by tontoz » Thu May 16, 2024 1:58 am

NatP4 wrote:These playoffs are really making me think Clingan is the pick at 2. The only team trying to throw a small ball/switch everything 5 out there is Cleveland. Just got dominated on the glass again. -15 in rebounds. Mobley played 43 minutes and had 7 total rebounds. That is completely ridiculous and hard to believe.

Cleveland got out rebound by 44 in 5 games.



I am not advocating that but I do think it is interesting that Gobert also had a 29" vert with a 9'7 standing reach at the combine.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1715 » by 9 and 20 » Thu May 16, 2024 8:51 am

90's ball is back. Ant-Man as the new MJ, 7 foot behemoths all over the place. Just need Kuz to go full Rodman and start dating 70 yr old Madonna!
Can't say I do. Who else gonna shoot?
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1716 » by penbeast0 » Thu May 16, 2024 11:35 am

9 and 20 wrote:90's ball is back. Ant-Man as the new MJ, 7 foot behemoths all over the place. Just need Kuz to go full Rodman and start dating 70 yr old Madonna!


I'd rather him start playing defense, rebounding, and being nasty on the court but whatever floats your boat.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1717 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Thu May 16, 2024 5:36 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:90's ball is back. Ant-Man as the new MJ, 7 foot behemoths all over the place. Just need Kuz to go full Rodman and start dating 70 yr old Madonna!


I'd rather him start playing defense, rebounding, and being nasty on the court but whatever floats your boat.


:lol: Kuzma don't want to scrap and bang. He wants to shoot pretty, one-legged fadeaways that go in every once in a while.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1718 » by penbeast0 » Thu May 16, 2024 6:42 pm

CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:90's ball is back. Ant-Man as the new MJ, 7 foot behemoths all over the place. Just need Kuz to go full Rodman and start dating 70 yr old Madonna!


I'd rather him start playing defense, rebounding, and being nasty on the court but whatever floats your boat.


:lol: Kuzma don't want to scrap and bang. He wants to shoot pretty, one-legged fadeaways that go in every once in a while.


Not going to get any Rodman comps for that.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1719 » by Silvie Lysandra » Fri May 17, 2024 1:01 am

penbeast0 wrote:
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
I'd rather him start playing defense, rebounding, and being nasty on the court but whatever floats your boat.


:lol: Kuzma don't want to scrap and bang. He wants to shoot pretty, one-legged fadeaways that go in every once in a while.


Not going to get any Rodman comps for that.


More an Antoine Walker than a Dennis Rodman.
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Re: NBA Games Discussion Thread - Part 5 

Post#1720 » by 9 and 20 » Fri May 17, 2024 2:55 am

Nuggets getting beat up by 40. Ant Man did this -

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