2021 Draft Thread - Part II

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yes, he signed a 2-way contract with the Lakers.

The Lakers!?!

The rich just keep getting richer.

They added WestBrook and that kid…oh my God!
I know what my Vegas odds would say. Lakers are going to win the championship next year. But I could be wrong

Joel ayayi is barley gonna play next year lol let's be honest . The Lakers are gonna suck up every player over 30 with anything left in the tank who doesn't have a ring.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

I don’t see it that way.

I remember Sam Cassell playing quite a bit for the Houston Rockets when they won the championship…

Joel Ayayi has quickness. Fast twitch is hard to combat. Trae Young did in the Knicks and the 76ers. I think that young guy will be right next to Russell Westbrook in the playoffs but I could be wrong. Really

[Ruzious]

The Lakers!?!

The rich just keep getting richer.

They added WestBrook and that kid…oh my God!
I know what my Vegas odds would say. Lakers are going to win the championship next year. But I could be wrong

Joel ayayi is barley gonna play next year lol let's be honest . The Lakers are gonna suck up every player over 30 with anything left in the tank who doesn't have a ring.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

I don’t see it that way.

I remember Sam Cassell playing quite a bit for the Houston Rockets when they won the championship…

Joel Ayayi has quickness. Fast twitch is hard to combat. Trae Young did in the Knicks and the 76ers. I think that young guy will be right next to Russell Westbrook in the playoffs but I could be wrong. Really

And the Hawks stole Trae Young's new backup - Sharife Cooper with the 48th pick - the quickest guard and best penetrator in the draft. We really should have bought a mid 2nd rounder.

[80sballboy]

Here are some grades:
B+ overall
https://sports.yahoo.com/2021-nba-draft-first-round-report-card-starring-the-rockets-and-magic-034702126.html

A- on Kispert and C+ on Todd
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-draft-grades-pick-by-pick-evaluations-in-trade-filled-night-with-a-bunch-of-high-marks/

A- on Kispert
https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/30/2021-nba-draft-grades-analysis-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley

B+
https://ca.nba.com/news/2021-nba-draft-grades-team-by-team-analysis-for-each-draft-pick/14oef50kz71q1ustiguq34i1y

B+ on Kispert
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-draft-grades-2021-live-picks-results/4rri81enm7p81ueevxfmicz0y

B and B+
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946542-2021-nba-draft-live-grades-for-every-pick

[doclinkin]

Hey consig, I too would have liked the Zards to consider drafting more well-known draft targets like Cooper, Butler or Springer, which they could have done if they stayed at 22. But it seems pretty clear that the Zards liked Todd more than they liked these guys. Time will tell whether they were right or wrong.

I think they liked Aaron Holliday more than they liked any of the potential rookies. It's just possible they were right.

As I said in the Holiday thread to me it looks like they are setting a team around Beal full of young veterans who will peak during the time of his next contract. Beal, Bertans and KCP are the oldest players on the team, turning 28 this season. Most of the team is 24 or younger. Players tend to peak in the NBA at age 27. Wes gets to shape a team mindset with a squad of young players who are just reaching the age where they start to get it. A player like Aaron Holiday had a suppressed value being switched off the ball next to 28 yr old TJ MCConnell (and come on, you know in Indiana they are going to find minutes for the next Jimmy Chitwood). But he has shown that he was starting to get it. I think the front office has the read that we were stealing a breakout player before his value is really known.

Yeah he hasn't figured out how to finish on the interior, but on this team is he going to have to? Look at the shooters he's got: Beal, Bertans, KCP, Kispert, Bryant, Huff, and playoff Rui -- all can hit an outside shot. So can Holiday. Then on the interior we have a few options to catch and flush. Basically Beal doesn't have to see a doubleteam all season if at least one of those players gets hot every game. Each of those shooters has had a season where they were hitting ~40% from three. Deni and Beal and KCP will have their choice of who to kick to when they drive.

I would have liked the defender with upside in Jaden Springer. But here we get a notable backcourt defender who is a young veteran. A decent cover for losing Russ, with no other replacement on the roster. I figure they think he will give them better value over the life of his contract, perhaps poised for a real breakout, than anyone they would have taken. TIme will tell. Meanwhile they picked up an upside guy anyway in iTodd. One who, yeah, hits an outside shot.

Basically though, with most of the roster under age 27, and the average peak of an NBA player being about then, we are banking on breakthroughs up and down the roster over the next few years. Holiday is one whose timetable for a breakthrough will come due sooner than one of the baby ballers we could have taken in the draft.

At least that is my read of the roster. Tommy is in fact trying to do it both ways. Rebuild with youth but yeah with young Veterans, and time it all to peak when Beal is still in his own prime.

[doclinkin]

I'm fine with Kispert at #15 but IMO Shepp got too cute and blew the #22 on a reclamation project with one year left on his rookie deal and a high upside play with low awareness. Both are Ernie specials.

The trade of dumping Westbrook's contract to rebuild around Beal also makes no sense. Either trade both or try to retool around both but once again Shepp and the front office are trying to thread the needle and its not going to work.

Beyond completely ignoring Winston, there's such little upside with Holiday. If he actually manages to play well, you're going to have to pay him market value. And you can't even trade him if he plays well because of that fact.

I would bet Tommy tries to extend him before the season.

[payitforward]

Todd reminds me of an MPJ lite. Natural looking stroke and good athleticism at 6-9 but the lack of awareness, recognition on both sides of the ball screams project. Can get lost in the speed of the game. That's concerning. Definitely needs extended run in the D-league. Not a terrible pick at 31 but they could have done alot better IMO.

I agree with you on Todd’s shortcomings. But those are the kind of things that can improve with age, experience and coaching. What can’t be taught is the size, length, athleticism and sweet shooting stroke that Todd brings with him.

After playing it safe with the 22 year-old Kispert I think it was a smart move to swing for the fences with the 19 year-old Todd.

It's not a matter of whether Todd can do this, that or the other thing. & it's not a matter of swinging for the fences vs. playing it safe. Above all, it's not a matter of "Todd or no one."

Did we extract the most potential value out of the available prospects by picking Todd at 31? That is the question. Or, could we have done better by trading down with that pick? Likely gotten both Todd & another prospect of equal value (or maybe of higher value)?

If that seems likely -- & it certainly does to me -- then it was non-optimal to pick Todd. Period.

"But," a person might reply, "if we'd traded down we might have missed on Todd!"

To which the answer is, "So what?"

That was one hell of a R2. & it sure wasn't about "Todd or bust." Again, we see Tommy's most straightforward weakness: he tends to go "all in" on guys. That's how we got Rui at #9, certainly no bargain however he turns out.

Still, in all, between trading Russ & at least getting 2 guys out of the draft, Tommy has had a good couple of days.

edit: returning to my question -- "Did we extract the most potential value out of the available prospects by picking Todd at 31? That is the question. Or, could we have done better by trading down with that pick? Likely gotten both Todd & another prospect of equal value (or maybe of higher value)?"

Looking back, the answer is obvious. We'd have been better off trading down. Moreover, the exact trade is also obvious: immediately after we picked Todd at #31 the Knicks traded the #32 pick to the Thunder for picks #34 & #36. Obviously, they'd have been even happier to have the #31 pick for 34 & 36.

With 34 & 36, the Knicks picked Rokas Jokubaitas & Miles McBride. Presumably, we'd have been able to take Todd & McBride. That's better than just Todd.

Of course, Todd might have gone #32 or #33 -- in that case, we'd have been able to take Herb Jones & Miles McBride.

For that matter, just review the list of guys taken from 34 on down & tell me with a straight face that there aren't two guys there you'd rather have than just Isaiah Todd!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Hey consig, I too would have liked the Zards to consider drafting more well-known draft targets like Cooper, Butler or Springer, which they could have done if they stayed at 22. But it seems pretty clear that the Zards liked Todd more than they liked these guys. Time will tell whether they were right or wrong.

I think they liked Aaron Holliday more than they liked any of the potential rookies. It's just possible they were right.

As I said in the Holiday thread to me it looks like they are setting a team around Beal full of young veterans who will peak during the time of his next contract. Beal, Bertans and KCP are the oldest players on the team, turning 28 this season. Most of the team is 24 or younger. Players tend to peak in the NBA at age 27. Wes gets to shape a team mindset with a squad of young players who are just reaching the age where they start to get it. A player like Aaron Holiday had a suppressed value being switched off the ball next to 28 yr old TJ MCConnell (and come on, you know in Indiana they are going to find minutes for the next Jimmy Chitwood). But he has shown that he was starting to get it. I think the front office has the read that we were stealing a breakout player before his value is really known.

Yeah he hasn't figured out how to finish on the interior, but on this team is he going to have to? Look at the shooters he's got: Beal, Bertans, KCP, Kispert, Bryant, Huff, and playoff Rui -- all can hit an outside shot. So can Holiday. Then on the interior we have a few options to catch and flush. Basically Beal doesn't have to see a doubleteam all season if at least one of those players gets hot every game. Each of those shooters has had a season where they were hitting ~40% from three. Deni and Beal and KCP will have their choice of who to kick to when they drive.

I would have liked the defender with upside in Jaden Springer. But here we get a notable backcourt defender who is a young veteran. A decent cover for losing Russ, with no other replacement on the roster. I figure they think he will give them better value over the life of his contract, perhaps poised for a real breakout, than anyone they would have taken. TIme will tell. Meanwhile they picked up an upside guy anyway in iTodd. One who, yeah, hits an outside shot.

Basically though, with most of the roster under age 27, and the average peak of an NBA player being about then, we are banking on breakthroughs up and down the roster over the next few years. Holiday is one whose timetable for a breakthrough will come due sooner than one of the baby ballers we could have taken in the draft.

At least that is my read of the roster. Tommy is in fact trying to do it both ways. Rebuild with youth but yeah with young Veterans, and time it all to peak when Beal is still in his own prime.

Here's scouting report on Holiday from the 2018 draft. He was picked one spot ahead of Chandler Huchison!

2018 Draft Profile - Aaron Holiday
Jonathan Givony - ESPN - May 14: "Holiday had an outstanding junior season, and he would bring a number of attractive traits with his microwave scoring ability, long wingspan and toughness. The fact that he can space the floor and play off the ball is important considering the building blocks the Bucks already have in place."

Ben Parker - NBADraft.net - May 9: "Really quick guard, capable of penetrating and beating opponents off the dribble ... Tough to stay in front of for defenders ... Handles the ball really well and knows how to finish around the rim with both hands ... Finishes well through contact and in traffic ... Has really good speed, possessing the capability to run an up-tempo offense ... Listed at 6’1”, 185 pounds. He’s small for an NBA point guard, though his wingspan helps ... Despite what some would consider "combo skills", lay the point position due to size limiatations ... Lack of size and leaping ability make it difficult for him to finish at the rim."

[SUPERBALLMAN]

NY Knicks grade A for 2nd round pick Miles McBride...

Bleacher Report

McBride Worth the Wait for Knicks

... the selection of Miles McBride is a moon-shot home run. He has Thibodeau-approved toughness, relentless defense, spot-up sniping and quick processing on the ball.

McBride will crack the rotation next season and maybe the starting lineup shortly thereafter. Great pick.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hey consig, I too would have liked the Zards to consider drafting more well-known draft targets like Cooper, Butler or Springer, which they could have done if they stayed at 22. But it seems pretty clear that the Zards liked Todd more than they liked these guys. Time will tell whether they were right or wrong.

I think they liked Aaron Holliday more than they liked any of the potential rookies. It's just possible they were right.

As I said in the Holiday thread to me it looks like they are setting a team around Beal full of young veterans who will peak during the time of his next contract. Beal, Bertans and KCP are the oldest players on the team, turning 28 this season. Most of the team is 24 or younger. Players tend to peak in the NBA at age 27. Wes gets to shape a team mindset with a squad of young players who are just reaching the age where they start to get it. A player like Aaron Holiday had a suppressed value being switched off the ball next to 28 yr old TJ MCConnell (and come on, you know in Indiana they are going to find minutes for the next Jimmy Chitwood). But he has shown that he was starting to get it. I think the front office has the read that we were stealing a breakout player before his value is really known.

Yeah he hasn't figured out how to finish on the interior, but on this team is he going to have to? Look at the shooters he's got: Beal, Bertans, KCP, Kispert, Bryant, Huff, and playoff Rui -- all can hit an outside shot. So can Holiday. Then on the interior we have a few options to catch and flush. Basically Beal doesn't have to see a doubleteam all season if at least one of those players gets hot every game. Each of those shooters has had a season where they were hitting ~40% from three. Deni and Beal and KCP will have their choice of who to kick to when they drive.

I would have liked the defender with upside in Jaden Springer. But here we get a notable backcourt defender who is a young veteran. A decent cover for losing Russ, with no other replacement on the roster. I figure they think he will give them better value over the life of his contract, perhaps poised for a real breakout, than anyone they would have taken. TIme will tell. Meanwhile they picked up an upside guy anyway in iTodd. One who, yeah, hits an outside shot.

Basically though, with most of the roster under age 27, and the average peak of an NBA player being about then, we are banking on breakthroughs up and down the roster over the next few years. Holiday is one whose timetable for a breakthrough will come due sooner than one of the baby ballers we could have taken in the draft.

At least that is my read of the roster. Tommy is in fact trying to do it both ways. Rebuild with youth but yeah with young Veterans, and time it all to peak when Beal is still in his own prime.

Here's scouting report on Holiday from the 2018 draft. He was picked one spot ahead of Chandler Huchison!

2018 Draft Profile - Aaron Holiday
Jonathan Givony - ESPN - May 14: "Holiday had an outstanding junior season, and he would bring a number of attractive traits with his microwave scoring ability, long wingspan and toughness. The fact that he can space the floor and play off the ball is important considering the building blocks the Bucks already have in place."

Ben Parker - NBADraft.net - May 9: "Really quick guard, capable of penetrating and beating opponents off the dribble ... Tough to stay in front of for defenders ... Handles the ball really well and knows how to finish around the rim with both hands ... Finishes well through contact and in traffic ... Has really good speed, possessing the capability to run an up-tempo offense ... Listed at 6’1”, 185 pounds. He’s small for an NBA point guard, though his wingspan helps ... Despite what some would consider "combo skills", lay the point position due to size limiatations ... Lack of size and leaping ability make it difficult for him to finish at the rim."

How time flies. Jon G was already with ESPN. I recall the good old days when DX, DraftExpress, was free. Hard for me to imagine it’s been at least four years.

I had a dialog way back in the day with Jonathan Givony and/or his main scout at the time. Joe T (Teutlin IIRC) about Morris Almond. They tried to tell me why morris almond was not as good as I thought. . It is just mind-boggling to see that he is world-famous and so is Kevin Pelton. He used to be a student when the supersonics were still in Seattle. Kevin Broom was probably either the secret weapon or wizards Kevin of on this site.

Then and now … Back to Aaron holiday. Thank you for the scouting reports. Super ball man

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

NY Knicks grade A for 2nd round pick Miles McBride...

Bleacher Report

McBride Worth the Wait for Knicks

... the selection of Miles McBride is a moon-shot home run. He has Thibodeau-approved toughness, relentless defense, spot-up sniping and quick processing on the ball.

McBride will crack the rotation next season and maybe the starting lineup shortly thereafter. Great pick.

Do not be too shocked if McBride turns out to be every bit as good or better than Davion Mitchell or Jerry Butler. Jared not the singer. Yes I am using Google translator.

[Dat2U]

I think they liked Aaron Holliday more than they liked any of the potential rookies. It's just possible they were right.

As I said in the Holiday thread to me it looks like they are setting a team around Beal full of young veterans who will peak during the time of his next contract. Beal, Bertans and KCP are the oldest players on the team, turning 28 this season. Most of the team is 24 or younger. Players tend to peak in the NBA at age 27. Wes gets to shape a team mindset with a squad of young players who are just reaching the age where they start to get it. A player like Aaron Holiday had a suppressed value being switched off the ball next to 28 yr old TJ MCConnell (and come on, you know in Indiana they are going to find minutes for the next Jimmy Chitwood). But he has shown that he was starting to get it. I think the front office has the read that we were stealing a breakout player before his value is really known.

Yeah he hasn't figured out how to finish on the interior, but on this team is he going to have to? Look at the shooters he's got: Beal, Bertans, KCP, Kispert, Bryant, Huff, and playoff Rui -- all can hit an outside shot. So can Holiday. Then on the interior we have a few options to catch and flush. Basically Beal doesn't have to see a doubleteam all season if at least one of those players gets hot every game. Each of those shooters has had a season where they were hitting ~40% from three. Deni and Beal and KCP will have their choice of who to kick to when they drive.

I would have liked the defender with upside in Jaden Springer. But here we get a notable backcourt defender who is a young veteran. A decent cover for losing Russ, with no other replacement on the roster. I figure they think he will give them better value over the life of his contract, perhaps poised for a real breakout, than anyone they would have taken. TIme will tell. Meanwhile they picked up an upside guy anyway in iTodd. One who, yeah, hits an outside shot.

Basically though, with most of the roster under age 27, and the average peak of an NBA player being about then, we are banking on breakthroughs up and down the roster over the next few years. Holiday is one whose timetable for a breakthrough will come due sooner than one of the baby ballers we could have taken in the draft.

At least that is my read of the roster. Tommy is in fact trying to do it both ways. Rebuild with youth but yeah with young Veterans, and time it all to peak when Beal is still in his own prime.

Here's scouting report on Holiday from the 2018 draft. He was picked one spot ahead of Chandler Huchison!

2018 Draft Profile - Aaron Holiday
Jonathan Givony - ESPN - May 14: "Holiday had an outstanding junior season, and he would bring a number of attractive traits with his microwave scoring ability, long wingspan and toughness. The fact that he can space the floor and play off the ball is important considering the building blocks the Bucks already have in place."

Ben Parker - NBADraft.net - May 9: "Really quick guard, capable of penetrating and beating opponents off the dribble ... Tough to stay in front of for defenders ... Handles the ball really well and knows how to finish around the rim with both hands ... Finishes well through contact and in traffic ... Has really good speed, possessing the capability to run an up-tempo offense ... Listed at 6’1”, 185 pounds. He’s small for an NBA point guard, though his wingspan helps ... Despite what some would consider "combo skills", lay the point position due to size limiatations ... Lack of size and leaping ability make it difficult for him to finish at the rim."

How time flies. Jon G was already with ESPN. I recall the good old days when DX, DraftExpress, was free. Hard for me to imagine it’s been at least four years.

I had a dialog way back in the day with Jonathan Givony and/or his main scout at the time. Joe T (Teutlin IIRC) about Morris Almond. They tried to tell me why morris almond was not as good as I thought. . It is just mind-boggling to see that he is world-famous and so is Kevin Pelton. He used to be a student when the supersonics were still in Seattle. Kevin Broom was probably either the secret weapon or wizards Kevin of on this site.

Then and now … Back to Aaron holiday. Thank you for the scouting reports. Super ball man

Jon was on realgm too. Knowing what I know now I should have volunteered to do some scouting for him back in the day.

Whatever you think of A. Holiday the biggest issue with him is he's already at the point where he needs an extension. We needed productive guys on rookie deals. Holiday will be looking for 10-15 mil next year depending on how he does. It would be #sowizards to watch him have a minor breakout only for Shepp to overpay next offseason and there goes your cap flexibility- especially if we do the S&T for Dinwiddie this offseason.

[payitforward]

NY Knicks grade A for 2nd round pick Miles McBride...

Bleacher Report

McBride Worth the Wait for Knicks

... the selection of Miles McBride is a moon-shot home run. He has Thibodeau-approved toughness, relentless defense, spot-up sniping and quick processing on the ball.

McBride will crack the rotation next season and maybe the starting lineup shortly thereafter. Great pick.

What makes this even more annoying is that, if we really liked Todd, we could easily have had both him AND McBride.

The Knicks had the #32 pick -- right after our #31 -- & traded it to OKC for #34 & #36, a great deal in any draft & an absolute steal in this one. Obviously, we could have made that deal with our #31. We'd have been almost certain to wind up with both Todd & McBride!

[payitforward]

Whatever you think of A. Holiday the biggest issue with him is he's already at the point where he needs an extension. We needed productive guys on rookie deals....

Yes, this is the key point.

...Holiday will be looking for 10-15 mil next year depending on how he does. It would be #sowizards to watch him have a minor breakout only for Shepp to overpay next offseason and there goes your cap flexibility- especially if we do the S&T for Dinwiddie this offseason.

It's a classic "lose - lose" move.

Aaron Holiday has been just plain terrible in 3 years. & his just-completed 3d season was his worst! If he turns it around & has "a minor breakout," he'll wind up overpaid. OTOH, if he continues to suck, we'll have wasted a significant opportunity by making this move to acquire him.

Above all, bad as he was, it seems like we could have had an outstanding draft -- & then traded a future R2 pick for him later this Summer if we absolutely had to have him....

Worse yet, even having made the trade down & acquiring him, we STILL could have come away with both Todd & either McBride or Cooper. Or, hell, both McBride & Cooper!

[doclinkin]

Whatever you think of A. Holiday the biggest issue with him is he's already at the point where he needs an extension. We needed productive guys on rookie deals. Holiday will be looking for 10-15 mil next year depending on how he does. It would be #sowizards to watch him have a minor breakout only for Shepp to overpay next offseason and there goes your cap flexibility- especially if we do the S&T for Dinwiddie this offseason.

I fully doubt the Dinwiddie rumor. That seems to be generated by Dinwiddie, then picked up by Mayo. Because he is friendly with the Beals anything he mentions gets picked up by other outlets. Once it is in the echo chamber then it gains its own momentum.

As for Holiday. I expect since Tommy and the analytics guys like him enough to trade for him, they will try to offer him an extension before he breaks out.

As for Givony, I'd bet he would give you the time if you hit him up on twitter. Doesn't hurt to write an appreciation letter and re-introduce yourself. He seems like a decent guy and is humble enough to realize how he got his start.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[DCZards]

The trade for Holiday rather than drafting a rookie probably had a lot to do with the fact that the Zards had zero PGs under contract after trading Westbrook.

I doubt that the Zards wanted to go into next season with a rookie and probably Winston (a second year player) as their PGs?

Neto, who I like very much, would have likely cost more than the $2.3 mil the Zards are paying Holiday next season. Holiday, at the minimum, is a better defender and 3pt shooter than Raul. And at 24 Aaron has more upside than the 29 year old Neto.

I’m sure the Zards did their analytics work on Holiday and think he’s a good fit with what they’re trying to do.

I totally get the concern about Holiday blowing up (which I’d be happy to see as a Zards fan) and earning a big payday. But sometimes you have to roll the dice and not be stymied by an unknown future.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here's scouting report on Holiday from the 2018 draft. He was picked one spot ahead of Chandler Huchison!

2018 Draft Profile - Aaron Holiday
Jonathan Givony - ESPN - May 14: "Holiday had an outstanding junior season, and he would bring a number of attractive traits with his microwave scoring ability, long wingspan and toughness. The fact that he can space the floor and play off the ball is important considering the building blocks the Bucks already have in place."

Ben Parker - NBADraft.net - May 9: "Really quick guard, capable of penetrating and beating opponents off the dribble ... Tough to stay in front of for defenders ... Handles the ball really well and knows how to finish around the rim with both hands ... Finishes well through contact and in traffic ... Has really good speed, possessing the capability to run an up-tempo offense ... Listed at 6’1”, 185 pounds. He’s small for an NBA point guard, though his wingspan helps ... Despite what some would consider "combo skills", lay the point position due to size limiatations ... Lack of size and leaping ability make it difficult for him to finish at the rim."

How time flies. Jon G was already with ESPN. I recall the good old days when DX, DraftExpress, was free. Hard for me to imagine it’s been at least four years.

I had a dialog way back in the day with Jonathan Givony and/or his main scout at the time. Joe T (Teutlin IIRC) about Morris Almond. They tried to tell me why morris almond was not as good as I thought. . It is just mind-boggling to see that he is world-famous and so is Kevin Pelton. He used to be a student when the supersonics were still in Seattle. Kevin Broom was probably either the secret weapon or wizards Kevin of on this site.

Then and now … Back to Aaron holiday. Thank you for the scouting reports. Super ball man

Jon was on realgm too. Knowing what I know now I should have volunteered to do some scouting for him back in the day.

Whatever you think of A. Holiday the biggest issue with him is he's already at the point where he needs an extension. We needed productive guys on rookie deals. Holiday will be looking for 10-15 mil next year depending on how he does. It would be #sowizards to watch him have a minor breakout only for Shepp to overpay next offseason and there goes your cap flexibility- especially if we do the S&T for Dinwiddie this offseason.

Both of us wish that! He offered me the same opportunity to do some scouting also. I didn't man up. Now look where they are.

You were right about Mo Almond and you were the most responsible for me finally looking at measurements and athletic ability AND NOT JUST STATS. I mean I was all-in on stats back in the past.

Sent from my SM-T500 using RealGM mobile app

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Whatever you think of A. Holiday the biggest issue with him is he's already at the point where he needs an extension. We needed productive guys on rookie deals. Holiday will be looking for 10-15 mil next year depending on how he does. It would be #sowizards to watch him have a minor breakout only for Shepp to overpay next offseason and there goes your cap flexibility- especially if we do the S&T for Dinwiddie this offseason.

I fully doubt the Dinwiddie rumor. That seems to be generated by Dinwiddie, then picked up by Mayo. Because he is friendly with the Beals anything he mentions gets picked up by other outlets. Once it is in the echo chamber then it gains its own momentum.

As for Holiday. I expect since Tommy and the analytics guys like him enough to trade for him, they will try to offer him an extension before he breaks out.

As for Givony, I'd bet he would give you the time if you hit him up on twitter. Doesn't hurt to write an appreciation letter and re-introduce yourself. He seems like a decent guy and is humble enough to realize how he got his start.

Is Mayo family to Beal?

Doclinkin, today I am trying my method of saying the same thing eight different times and eight different places. How about Dennis Smith?



Sent from my SM-T500 using RealGM mobile app

[gambitx777]

Whatever you think of A. Holiday the biggest issue with him is he's already at the point where he needs an extension. We needed productive guys on rookie deals. Holiday will be looking for 10-15 mil next year depending on how he does. It would be #sowizards to watch him have a minor breakout only for Shepp to overpay next offseason and there goes your cap flexibility- especially if we do the S&T for Dinwiddie this offseason.

I fully doubt the Dinwiddie rumor. That seems to be generated by Dinwiddie, then picked up by Mayo. Because he is friendly with the Beals anything he mentions gets picked up by other outlets. Once it is in the echo chamber then it gains its own momentum.

As for Holiday. I expect since Tommy and the analytics guys like him enough to trade for him, they will try to offer him an extension before he breaks out.

As for Givony, I'd bet he would give you the time if you hit him up on twitter. Doesn't hurt to write an appreciation letter and re-introduce yourself. He seems like a decent guy and is humble enough to realize how he got his start.

Is Mayo family to Beal?

Doclinkin, today I am trying my method of saying the same thing eight different times and eight different places. How about Dennis Smith?



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Naw mayo is just a DC influencer wanna be who made his way into the fringe out skirts of beals circle. So he picks up stuff from social gatherings , friends of friends, and group chats he's privy too. Also he just makes stuff up.

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[payitforward]

The trade for Holiday rather than drafting a rookie probably had a lot to do with the fact that the Zards had zero PGs under contract after trading Westbrook.

I doubt that the Zards wanted to go into next season with a rookie and probably Winston (a second year player) as their PGs?

Neto, who I like very much, would have likely cost more than the $2.3 mil the Zards are paying Holiday next season. Holiday, at the minimum, is a better defender and 3pt shooter than Raul. And at 24 Aaron has more upside than the 29 year old Neto.

I’m sure the Zards did their analytics work on Holiday and think he’s a good fit with what they’re trying to do.

I totally get the concern about Holiday blowing up (which I’d be happy to see as a Zards fan) and earning a big payday. But sometimes you have to roll the dice and not be stymied by an unknown future.

Hard to criticize a player acquisition b/c the guy might turn out to be good!