The (way too early) 2024 Draft thread. Woo! Tanking!

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Rough draft:

C
Alexandre Sarr (Top 3)
Kyle Filipowski (late lottery/mid-1st)
Donovan Clingan (late lottery/mid-1st)
Kel'el Ware (late lottery/mid-1st)
Zach Edey (Mid/late 1st)
Daron Holmes II (late 1st/early 2nd)
Yves Missi (late 1st/early 2nd)
Ryan Kalkbrenner (early 2nd rd)

PF
Tristan de Silva (Mid/late 1st)
Izan Almansa (early 2nd rd)
Bobi Klintman (early 2nd rd)
Coleman Hawkins (2nd rd)
Tyler Smith (2nd rd)

SF
Ron Holland (Top 5)
Matas Buzelis (mid lottery)
Zaccharie Risacher (mid/late lottery)
Dalton Knecht (late lottery/mid-1st)
Cody Williams (late lottery/mid-1st)
Johnny Furphy (mid/late 1st rd)
Melvin Ajinca (late 1st/early 2nd)
Dillon Jones (late 1st/early 2nd)
Tidjane Salaun (late 1st/early 2nd)
Kyshawn George (late 1st/early 2nd)
Baylor Scheierman (early 2nd rd)
Alex Karaban (early 2nd rd)
Ryan Dunn (2nd rd)
Harrison Ingram (2nd rd)
Payton Sandfort (2nd rd)

SG
Ja'Kobe Walter (mid/late 1st rd)
Stefon Castle (mid/late 1st rd)
Jaylon Tyson (late 1st/early 2nd)
Ajay Mitchell (late 1st/early 2nd)
Terrence Shannon Jr (late 1st/early 2nd)
Kevin McCullar (late 1st/early 2nd)
Hunter Sallis (early 2nd rd)
Trey Alexander (2nd rd)
Pacome Dadiet (2nd rd)
Cam Spencer (2nd rd)

PG
Rob Dillingham (Top 5)
Nikola Topic (Top 5)
Reed Sheppard (mid-lottery)
Jared McCain (late lottery)
Isaiah Collier (late lottery)
Tyler Kolek (mid/late 1st rd)
Devin Carter (mid/late 1st rd)
Carlton Carrington (late 1st/early 2nd)
K.J. Simpson (2nd rd)
Juan Nunez (2nd rd)
Jamal Shead (2nd rd)
Tristen Newton (2nd rd)
Reece Beekman (2nd rd)

Dat2, first of all Hello! Great work, per usual.

I haven't put any real time into this list but I've caught glimpses of a lot of these players. My favorites today:

Kel'El Ware
Dalton Knecht
Ron Holland
Tyler Kolek
Jamal Shead

I think the Wizards need to be athletic. Kolek would be the exception. I think he's a starting quality PG.

Shead is like a buzz saw of a competitor. I liked him and Sears from Alabama. Another guy I did like from Alabama is Grant Peterson.

Focusing on our 2nd pick (26)...

The player I am enamoured with is Kyshawn George. A fluid wing with PG skills, length, a sweet shooting stroke, and superb vision & BBIQ... WILL HE LAST TO 26 ???

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If we don't take Sarr, at 26 Kel’el Ware would be on my radar. A mobile athletic 7-footer, nice offensive skills and all-around talent with a ton of upside. Avg 16 pts 10 boards 2 blocks last season for Indiana.

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If we take Sarr, and/or miss out on George & Ware, a upside pick I like at 26 is 18 yr old 6-8 Wing prospect from France, Pacome Dadiet...

Per NBA DRAFT ROOM:
SF – Ratiopharm Ulm (France) – HT: 6-8 – WT: 210 – WING: NA – Int.05 – A high energy wing who plays both ends, makes quick decisions with the ball and plays with all-out hustle. A good finisher and capable 3pt shooter.

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If we take Sarr and or miss out on Castle, a strong candidate at 26 to me who is being a bit overlooked is Hunter Sallis, a 6-5 combo who can play either spot, can score, shoot, pass, and is a pesky perimeter defender.

Per NBA DRAFT ROOM:
SG – Wake Forest – HT: 6-5 – WT: 175 – WING: 6-10 – Jr – A smooth and explosive combo guard with a lanky frame and nice scoring ability.
Hunter Sallis is a smooth guard with a lanky frame, good quickness and great handles. He’s a great scorer from the wing and excels in transition thanks to his high-end athleticism. He’s a versatile player who can play on or off the ball and guard all over the court. He’ll need to refine his play-making skills but has all the tools to make it in the league.
Sallis is one of the most creative finishers in his class and is able to hang in the air, go up and under, and spin the ball off the backboard. He’s got the length and leaping ability to be an above the rim finisher and should improve in this area as he gains strength and power.
He’s got a really nice jumper, getting good elevation and releasing at the top of his jump. His outside shot should develop into a lethal skill at the next levels of play and his mid range game is already very advanced.
Sallis is a pesky perimeter defender with quick hands and always looking to get steals. He currently lacks the bulk to hold his own against NBA caliber 3’s but he’s likely to get a long stronger and bigger over the coming years.

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Other players I like that could potentially still be on the board at 26:

Isaiah Collier
Carlton Carrington
Tidjane Salaun
Yves Missi
DaRon Holmes II
Adem Bona
Jamir Watkins
Melvin Ajinca
Ryan Dunn

[dcPress]

Agree about Castle. It seems like whomever we pick should be at least average defensively.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Rough draft:

C
Alexandre Sarr (Top 3)
Kyle Filipowski (late lottery/mid-1st)
Donovan Clingan (late lottery/mid-1st)
Kel'el Ware (late lottery/mid-1st)
Zach Edey (Mid/late 1st)
Daron Holmes II (late 1st/early 2nd)
Yves Missi (late 1st/early 2nd)
Ryan Kalkbrenner (early 2nd rd)

Another Center I'd have interest in at 26 if we don't take Sarr at the top, depending on who's already been taken (Ware, Missi, Holmes), is Adem Bona. Seems he may be getting a bit overlooked, 6-10 with a 7-4 wingspan, was Pac 12 Defensive Player of the Year. A rim runner offensively raw, A dog defensively and rim protector, mobile and defensively switchable and versatile, would add back a lot of what we lost with dealing Gafford.

NBA DRAFT ROOM:
UCLA (Nigeria) – HT: 6-10 – WT: 235 – WING: 7-4 – So – A quick, explosive athlete with great open court speed, tons of strength and above the rim ability. A masterful defender and improving offensive player. Can play a clear role from day 1. NBA Comp: faster Nene.
Draft Notes
Adem Bona is an incredibly fast and explosive open court athlete with quick twitch athleticism. He changes ends in a flash, has great upside as a defender and transition player and makes incredibly quick cuts to the basket.
Bona has a strong build but is also a very graceful and fluid athlete. He’s got a great feel for making cuts for back door lobs and for filling the lane in transition, where he’s a great at attacking the rim.
At this point he does most of his scoring in the lane and he does a really good job of facing up and taking his man of the dribble, using his elite quickness to blow by the defender.
His main NBA calling card will be his versatile defense. He’s very good at guarding smaller players and can switch all over the court. He’s a very good rim protector and defensive rebounder.
His NBA game might be a bit limited due to his lack of an outside shot but he’s got a clear path to being a rotation big who brings value with his defensive versatility, athleticism and effort.
Comparisons
faster Al Harrington
Robert Williams

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[Dat2U]

Sometimes a player’s poise and maturity are what jumps out at you. Those are strengths that Castle displayed as a 19 yr old freshman on a team with high expectations…and playing on the biggest stages.

Yes, ‘Bama left Castle wide open from 3 on UConn’s first two possessions of a NCAA Final Four game…and, guess what, he nailed both shots.

Dat, I remember you and I having a similar debate about Brunson. I liked Brunson as a PG who relied on his craftiness and smarts, and thought he could be a good NBA player despite his lack of size, quickness, and athleticism.

You weren’t a fan of Brunson’s skillset and thought he wasn’t worth drafting, IIRC.

I have a similar vibe about Castle as I did about Brunson…smart, poised, a leader, a national champion.

Again, the concerns about Castle’s shooting are legit. But I’d take a chance on him improving in that area.

You make a good point about Brunson and that's a player I've though alot about watching his ascent. I was low on Brunson coming out because at the time I viewed him as a game manager that couldn't create space or defend (I was right about the not being able to defend part lol). At the time that's what he was, he even got benched in the NCAA championship game in favor of a better matchup and I definitely read too much into that. Unfortunately I also could not predict how much he'd work on his game to become a legit #1 option. He did have a very good skill set at Villanova but definitely expanded on it in the NBA. It's hard to predict who will outwork who to become the absolute best version of themselves.

It's easy as hell to compare draft prospects to Kawhi, Jimmy Butler & Brunson but it's impossible to know if they will put in the actual work to max out their abilities. The league is filled with examples of guys who outworked their competition and was a choir boy in school but are still completely overwhelmed once they got to the NBA (cough, Johnny D.)

So when folks make such comparisons to Kawhi/Jimmy, I have to automatically dismiss it because it's not the norm. It's extremely rare that player completely transforms his game from fringe role player coming into the league to a franchise caliber player.

I also don't think the Brunson/Castle comparisons are a good one. Brunson was always a + shooter coming out. He made his strength an even bigger strength. Castle needs too turn a weakness into a strength to go down the same path ... and that's a much bigger hill to climb.

[Dat2U]

Castle seems like the perfect teammate... until you ask him to take a jumpshot. That unwillingness to shoot manifests itself in opposing defenses basically ignoring him on the college level. That will only be amplified at the NBA level where he's no longer one of the more athletic players on the floor.

I'm sure Castle won't shrivel at NBA competition and lose himself like Johnny Davis did but are the two that dramatically different that we want to repeat the non-shooting SG that can defend his ass off and do a lil bit of everything yet be the master of nothing?

While I share your concern about Castle’s shooting, I don’t think he lacks any confidence nor did I see any unwillingness to shoot. Kid had 21 pts in the Final Four semifinal and 15 in the championship game.

Castle has the potential to be a much better playmaker than Davis plus with his size, length and athleticism he'll score at the rim...something Davis struggles doing. I don't think we saw a lot of Castle's offensive capabilities because he was on a talented, veteran UConn team where he was the fourth or fifth option.

He's not my first or second choice for the Zards but he's in the top 5.

Agreed on Castle. Except he IS the guy I want most in this draft.

I don't see him as unwilling to shoot so much as understanding his role. Playing it exactly as required of him. To the extent where he won a championship. On UConn he was not only the 2nd most impactful defender, but a primary screener, the best on the team at getting a post entry pass to the big, had great timing and reads on back-door cuts etc. He showed a veteran NBA-translatable game as the most important glue guy in the NCAA championship run. On any team. The high volume gunnery would be left to prior champions Newton & Karaban and the offensive hitman brought in for off-ball movement/offense in Cam Spencer.

But if you look at his High School games you see Castle as a first option scorer who had some blistering head-to-head games with Isaiah Collier. His reliable shot at that level was a pull-up middy, aside from anything attacking the basket. But his shot does not need to be totally rebuilt. He's shooting above 75% from the line, which indicates he can add a jumper with decent extended range. He has a winning mindset, and will follow the role that he is asked to do. I expect that includes raising his offensive game.

I don't see Johnny Davis. The only similarity is that Davis played high effort defense in college. But on offense he was a gunner in college, he took every shot for that team. Mostly bad shots since he was doubled. Some went in, but they were bad shots. Inefficient. In the NBA he realized his game did not translate at all. Too short, not quick enough, his high volume low-percentage, no passing, average handle, none of that was helpful to a team. But he had nothing else. Screening? Passing? Athleticism to raise his game? Those were not strengths. The only thing that got him to the NBA was his willingness to work hard. Not enough.

By contrast Castle starts his NBA career with all of the habits required at the next level with the exception of that me-first attack mode. Though that was his game in high school. On top of that he's got good length, good athleticism, a useful handle, an aptitude for passing, in highschool he was a set-up man. AND he is noted for having that work ethic. To me with this front office that is key. We are expecting our draftees to build skills that will maximize their NBA effect. Castle to me has the strongest base of useful skills combined with upside of any of the players mocked at the top of the draft.

Sarr: big man who doesn't play big. Upside, but no instant role. Has all the talent to play big, but not the aggression needed to intimidate on the interior or snatch rebounds. Can't teach competitiveness. His best hope comes from adding strength so he learns not to be timid on the inside.

Sheppard: already maxed out on "fundamentally skilled"; athletic upside limited. Only area of probable development is PG team leadership. He won't get quicker feet. Already plays as well as you can expect in every category of basic basketball aptitude.

Topic: prodigy ballhandler who does nothing off ball, on either side of the ball. Jumpshot needs complete overhaul.

Risacher: good size for a wing scorer. developing nicely. good effort/instincts on team defense. Needs muscle. Is his inconsistency a product of youth/growing pains/injury or lack of fire?

Dillingham: genius scorer, who will always be too small. You trade one side of the ball for the other.

Castle: former 1st option scorer, converted to role-player on a veteran team in order to win a chip. Did. Can he regain his attack mode instincts? Signs point to yes.

Honestly for me Castle has become my #1 overall as the player who is most likely to fulfill his talents. We don't need him as our centerpiece star. We are hoping to land that guy in the next draft. But to me he has the profile of a guy who will win MIP at some point in his career, and fight his way into all-star conversations. We draft our Pippen first, then find our Jordan next draft.

Do I want him at #1? I want to slip a notch or two out of the top spot where he will be on the board, so it is no question that he's the best guy. Better still I'd love to earn a top pick then for multiple teams to fall in love with Topic or Sarr and offer us assets to move up. We slide, pick up something extra, then still take Castle. Once he is on the Winger/Dawkins improvement plan regimen, I expect he will check off every damn box they put in front of him.

I'm not buying in on a prospect based on just his work ethic. As I mentioned in response to DCZards, the examples of guys who completely remade their games to become stars is far and few between. We've got 8-10 years of looking for the next Kawhi or Jimmy and none of these guys are Kawhi'ng or Jimmy'ing once they get to the league. Guys tend to have a broken shot or limited skill for a reason ... they did not work on it enough (whatever the case may be ... they didn't need to or want to).

When it's a non-C with a remedial jumper ... it's a flag. A guy like Amen Thompson ... you weigh the athleticism vs the skills he does have and say can he be an effective player if he never improves his jumper significantly? Looking at Amen at 6-7 with his ball skill + alien level athleticism and body control, it was a clear yes. For Castle, while he's not a bad athlete, I don't know how the hell he scores unless he starts making open shots. I don't see a creative guy breaking down defenders and getting to the rim and I' not drafting a guard in today's NBA solely for his defense.

[NatP4]

Topic played 18 minutes in game 1 of the ABA semi-finals. 8 points 6 assists 4 rebounds 1 turnover. 3-7 shooting. 2-3 from 3(miss was a half court heave)

First checks in with 7:21 remaining in Q2, again at 6:26 remaining Q3.

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[dckingsfan]

...Another Center I'd have interest in at 26 if we don't take Sarr at the top, depending on who's already been taken (Ware, Missi, Holmes), is Adem Bona...

You don't think he goes in the second round? Love him with our 52nd pick.

[AFM]

Alright question for you fellas... who do you have as your #1 DO NOT DRAFT HE IS FOOLS' GOLD for this year?

[NatP4]

Mega with Topic playing Crvena: close game start to finish. Topic put up 21-5-5. End up losing by 10.

Crvena with Topic playing Mega: blowout 30 point loss. Game was over in the 1st quarter.

Topic is now up to 31.3% from 3, 88% from the FT line. Tankathon projecting him as a 36.7% 3pt shooter in the NBA. Still 3 months until he turns 19 years old.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

...Another Center I'd have interest in at 26 if we don't take Sarr at the top, depending on who's already been taken (Ware, Missi, Holmes), is Adem Bona...

You don't think he goes in the second round? Love him with our 52nd pick.

Possibly. Yeah I'd love him at 52. Hard to say, mocks have all these guys all over the place. A lot of this draft is projecting upside and potential. The combine and pre draft workouts are going to carry a lot of weight this year.

[doclinkin]

When it's a non-C with a remedial jumper ... it's a flag. A guy like Amen Thompson ... you weigh the athleticism vs the skills he does have and say can he be an effective player if he never improves his jumper significantly? Looking at Amen at 6-7 with his ball skill + alien level athleticism and body control, it was a clear yes. For Castle, while he's not a bad athlete, I don't know how the hell he scores unless he starts making open shots. I don't see a creative guy breaking down defenders and getting to the rim and I' not drafting a guard in today's NBA solely for his defense.

Generally I agree with this. I've seen enough on Castle influencing a game by doing everything else that I'm confident on him to produce at the next level. I give Castle somewhat of a pass in that adding range is one of the few skills that a player can develop, so if they score in the long mid-range and at the line I give them a little more slack on the outside shooting. That FT% tends to portray work ethic and a willingness to grind on skill development. I note in the comparison to Anthony Black that here was a player who had a miserable 3FG% who has actually developed it as a skill (albeit on a low-volume of attempts). And the basics of a jumper for Castle are there: overhead, good ups, good form. Distinct from Topic whose shot just seems eminently blockable once he is facing NBA level athletes and length.

But either way we are splitting hairs since you have him top 10 in this draft and I want him at 5 on a trade down or if we slip in the draft. I also know I am totally biased on behalf of Castle based on his improvement and play over the season, defense and influence on the UConn success. That and this draft does not have a guy that I know will automatically translate (other than Edey's low post offense) so I'm game to gamble on the best developmental prospect I see.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Topic played 18 minutes in game 1 of the ABA semi-finals. 8 points 6 assists 4 rebounds 1 turnover. 3-7 shooting. 2-3 from 3(miss was a half court heave)

First checks in with 7:21 remaining in Q2, again at 6:26 remaining Q3.

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Im sorry, I just do not see it with this guy. I don't get all the hype for this dude. And I WANT to see it! We nave a top pick and we need all the best prospects available possible. And I want to have a shot at a PG with size and sweet passing skills and that European flare.

But, I don't know what it is, his build, he looks like he has a long torso, just not athletic or quick, one point at 1:36 in the 3rd Q he tries to drive and bounces the ball off his knee and turns it over. His handle is ok, his shot looks ok to good. But numerous times he jumps in the air with nowhere to go and passes behind him, and makes the pass but is lucky its not a TO. he's bad defensively, he just looks unathletic and uncoordinated to me. And this league, the players compared to college are clearly more physically developed and stronger. But I don't see any above the rim athleticism, its slow paced, its almost like watching the WNBA.

I know he's young, and he does have skills. I guess we'll see, I mean who knows really. To me, he looks like maybe he's like a Tomas Satoransky level player, not a top 3 pick. Personally, guys I'm seeing projected 2nd round like Hunter Sallis and Ajay Mitchell look better, let alone someone like Collier.

[closg00]

Alright question for you fellas... who do you have as your #1 DO NOT DRAFT HE IS FOOLS' GOLD for this year?

In-terms of how they will perform at the NBA level.
Underrated: Isaiah Collier
Overrated: Reed Sheppard

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Alright question for you fellas... who do you have as your #1 DO NOT DRAFT HE IS FOOLS' GOLD for this year?

In-terms of how they will perform at the NBA level.
Underrated: Isaiah Collier
Overrated: Reed Sheppard

Underrated: Kyshawn George, Kel’el Ware
Overrated: Topic, Clingan

[NatP4]

Underrated: Sheppard, Devin Carter, KJ Simpson, Daron Holmes, Alex Karaban, Johni Broome, Filipowski, Jalen Bridges.

[payitforward]

As we've come to expect, Dat has written a series of very thoughtful & significant observations in these last posts.

At the same time -- for the obvious reason that we have no idea whether we'll be taking #1 or, say, #6 -- it's hard to make decisive points about our first pick.

In a way it's easier to talk about our #26 pick. You have to figure that at least one of Furphy, Kolek, Ware, Holmes or Carrington will be on the board. Or Jamir Watkins, or Devin Carter.

Anyone have a thought about what we should be doing at 26?

[SUPERBALLMAN]

As we've come to expect, Dat has written a series of very thoughtful & significant observations in these last posts.

At the same time -- for the obvious reason that we have no idea whether we'll be taking #1 or, say, #6 -- it's hard to make decisive points about our first pick.

In a way it's easier to talk about our #26 pick. You have to figure that at least one of Furphy, Kolek, Ware, Holmes or Carrington will be on the board. Or Jamir Watkins, or Devin Carter.

Anyone have a thought about what we should be doing at 26?

My general view with this draft is to put an emphasis on upside and athleticism, length and versatility. We're not trying to win now, so I'd be looking for high ceiling rather than high floor.

In that vein I'd be looking at guys like Kel’el Ware, Kyshawn George, Carlton Carrington.

[Dat2U]

Alright question for you fellas... who do you have as your #1 DO NOT DRAFT HE IS FOOLS' GOLD for this year?

In-terms of how they will perform at the NBA level.
Underrated: Isaiah Collier
Overrated: Reed Sheppard

The UConn guys. Clingan ... not so much his game as the value. I'm not spending a top 6 pick on a drop coverage old school big. Castle for the offensive limitations I've discussed.

Underrated:
Isaiah Collier
Jared McCain
Ron Holland

[Dat2U]

As we've come to expect, Dat has written a series of very thoughtful & significant observations in these last posts.

At the same time -- for the obvious reason that we have no idea whether we'll be taking #1 or, say, #6 -- it's hard to make decisive points about our first pick.

In a way it's easier to talk about our #26 pick. You have to figure that at least one of Furphy, Kolek, Ware, Holmes or Carrington will be on the board. Or Jamir Watkins, or Devin Carter.

Anyone have a thought about what we should be doing at 26?

Kel'el Ware if he slips, which is possible due to the glut of Cs available. He would be my #1 choice.

Kolek feels like he'd be a good pick in that range as well as a polished P&R maestro.

Furphy shoots it & rebounds well at 6-9 so there's intrigue there.

DaRon Holmes feels like a good bet to be a decent contributor. He's been productive since he was a frosh and has added some skill to complement his motor.

[doclinkin]

As we've come to expect, Dat has written a series of very thoughtful & significant observations in these last posts.

At the same time -- for the obvious reason that we have no idea whether we'll be taking #1 or, say, #6 -- it's hard to make decisive points about our first pick.

In a way it's easier to talk about our #26 pick. You have to figure that at least one of Furphy, Kolek, Ware, Holmes or Carrington will be on the board. Or Jamir Watkins, or Devin Carter.

Anyone have a thought about what we should be doing at 26?

Kel'el Ware if he slips, which is possible due to the glut of Cs available. He would be my #1 choice.

Kolek feels like he'd be a good pick in that range as well as a polished P&R maestro.

Furphy shoots it & rebounds well at 6-9 so there's intrigue there.

DaRon Holmes feels like a good bet to be a decent contributor. He's been productive since he was a frosh and has added some skill to complement his motor.

I like all of those. Consensus big board says Ware and Furphy are gone by then.

https://www.rookiescale.com/2024-consensus-board/

Which puts it at Kolek and Holmes. I'd lean Holmes. They have McCullar and Shannon available at 26 as well. Doubt this FO even looks at Shannon. McCullar is tough but fell off later in the season.