What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
Moderator: Doctor MJ
What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- Ballboy
- Posts: 24
- And1: 7
- Joined: Oct 18, 2021
What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
I'm new here for context. I was wondering if someone could provide a list of all the best advanced metrics. I know about RAPTOR, LEBRON, RAPM, EPM, etc etc, but there are some really good more unknown ones. Does anyone have a database of APM? That's an example.
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 156
- And1: 76
- Joined: May 23, 2012
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
A lot of the current metrics (try to) do the same thing. Most of them do it badly, though that's something one wouldn't know until one built one of these themselves
More generally, there appears to be a glass ceiling: no significant progress has been made in regards to player metrics since 2013.
Some creators might have hyped certain features, but pretty much all of them are useless.
I believe there is a google doc somewhere that shows multiple metrics, and the average for every player. I'm sure if you look around on Twitter you can find it
More generally, there appears to be a glass ceiling: no significant progress has been made in regards to player metrics since 2013.
Some creators might have hyped certain features, but pretty much all of them are useless.
I believe there is a google doc somewhere that shows multiple metrics, and the average for every player. I'm sure if you look around on Twitter you can find it
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,668
- And1: 286
- Joined: Feb 01, 2005
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
One study:https://dunksandthrees.com/blog/metric-comparison
Author of DARKO found it to be best in general in another study. Was best this year in projecting 2021-22 season team results.
Explanation of past and projection are different purposes.
Author of DARKO found it to be best in general in another study. Was best this year in projecting 2021-22 season team results.
Explanation of past and projection are different purposes.
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,678
- And1: 7,325
- Joined: Apr 15, 2020
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
blabla wrote:A lot of the current metrics (try to) do the same thing. Most of them do it badly, though that's something one wouldn't know until one built one of these themselves
More generally, there appears to be a glass ceiling: no significant progress has been made in regards to player metrics since 2013.
Some creators might have hyped certain features, but pretty much all of them are useless.
I believe there is a google doc somewhere that shows multiple metrics, and the average for every player. I'm sure if you look around on Twitter you can find it
Delete the bold part and it right, there’s no need to try and create one. The idea of an all in one (or however it’s described) metric is dumb and no one that understands basketball would put any stock into it. It’s for stat nerds to nerd out on, and hey…if they enjoy it by all means. Have a blast. It’s just not relevant to understanding how basketball played by humans actually works.
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 79,446
- And1: 20,827
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
SNPA wrote:blabla wrote:A lot of the current metrics (try to) do the same thing. Most of them do it badly, though that's something one wouldn't know until one built one of these themselves
More generally, there appears to be a glass ceiling: no significant progress has been made in regards to player metrics since 2013.
Some creators might have hyped certain features, but pretty much all of them are useless.
I believe there is a google doc somewhere that shows multiple metrics, and the average for every player. I'm sure if you look around on Twitter you can find it
Delete the bold part and it right, there’s no need to try and create one. The idea of an all in one (or however it’s described) metric is dumb and no one that understands basketball would put any stock into it. It’s for stat nerds to nerd out on, and hey…if they enjoy it by all means. Have a blast. It’s just not relevant to understanding how basketball played by humans actually works.
This is a fairly limited view of the value of unified metrics. They have weaknesses and need to be taken with a grain of salt, but they do have some value. Each of them operates in a given way and will have bias, no different than a subjective human eye test. A lot of them end up heavily rewarding box score production, particularly scoring, so you'll see certain people represented that way. The +/- stuff is very role-specific, so it is challenging to use for comparisons because each number is contextually framed. But as you stack a bunch of them next to one another, you start seeing certain trends which can help support or undermine the picture of a given player's value. They can also be used to find potential "diamonds in the rough," and have historically had some success at doing so. It's all in understanding the pros and cons of the tools involved instead of just categorically dismissing them without particularly good cause.
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,678
- And1: 7,325
- Joined: Apr 15, 2020
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
tsherkin wrote:SNPA wrote:blabla wrote:A lot of the current metrics (try to) do the same thing. Most of them do it badly, though that's something one wouldn't know until one built one of these themselves
More generally, there appears to be a glass ceiling: no significant progress has been made in regards to player metrics since 2013.
Some creators might have hyped certain features, but pretty much all of them are useless.
I believe there is a google doc somewhere that shows multiple metrics, and the average for every player. I'm sure if you look around on Twitter you can find it
Delete the bold part and it right, there’s no need to try and create one. The idea of an all in one (or however it’s described) metric is dumb and no one that understands basketball would put any stock into it. It’s for stat nerds to nerd out on, and hey…if they enjoy it by all means. Have a blast. It’s just not relevant to understanding how basketball played by humans actually works.
This is a fairly limited view of the value of unified metrics. They have weaknesses and need to be taken with a grain of salt, but they do have some value. Each of them operates in a given way and will have bias, no different than a subjective human eye test. A lot of them end up heavily rewarding box score production, particularly scoring, so you'll see certain people represented that way. The +/- stuff is very role-specific, so it is challenging to use for comparisons because each number is contextually framed. But as you stack a bunch of them next to one another, you start seeing certain trends which can help support or undermine the picture of a given player's value. They can also be used to find potential "diamonds in the rough," and have historically had some success at doing so. It's all in understanding the pros and cons of the tools involved instead of just categorically dismissing them without particularly good cause.
You highlight why they can be generally dismissed.
There is bias in their construction. There is bias in their outputs. There is bias in their interpretation. At some point it’s just arguing what you want using them as justification and hiding behind numbers to appear unbiased.
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 79,446
- And1: 20,827
- Joined: Oct 14, 2003
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
SNPA wrote:You highlight why they can be generally dismissed.
There is bias in their construction. There is bias in their outputs. There is bias in their interpretation. At some point it’s just arguing what you want using them as justification and hiding behind numbers to appear unbiased.
That's certainly one way to look at them. But if bias is what concerns you, then you've got basically nothing to work with at all, subjectively or objectively. At some point, it becomes an exercise in piecing together information and looking for commonalities.
Re: What are all the new and best advanced metrics?
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 172
- And1: 143
- Joined: Jun 22, 2018
Return to Statistical Analysis