Remaining schedule

[FJS]

We have to play 43 games

Of them 17 vs East (8-5 right now) and 26 vs West (11-15) right now.

We have to play 24 games at home (10-5 right now) and 19 away (7-15 right now)

We aren't going to play anymore vs Pistons, Blazers and Grizzlies (bad teams right now)

We have to play 4 times vs Rockets and Warriors each other.

We have to play 3 times vs OKC (2 at home)

We have to play 2 times vs:
Wolves (2 at home)
Nuggets
Mavs
Clippers (2 away)
Lakers (2 at home)
Spurs (2 at home)
Hawks
Hornets
Wizards

We have to play 1 time more vs

Suns, Kings, Pelicans, Knicks, Nets, Heat Away
Celtics, Sixers, Raptors, Bulls, Cavs, Pacers, Bucks Home

Some facts:
Since December 21st, we are 5-2 on the road (we were 2-13 before that)
We are 6-0 at home since December 8th. (we were 6-5 before that)

The trend is positive, and although I have read we have one of the most difficult schedules I don't think is the worst scenario. I we win 75% of games vs Lakers, Warriors & Rockets (we play 6 of 10 at home) we will be in great position to be in play in at least. We have to play 8 games vs Spurs, Hawks, Hornets & Wizards, who aren't really good. (5 of 8 at home)
Most of the games vs contenders (Wolves, Okc, Nuggets, Celtics, Sixers & Bucks) are at home (8 of 10)

[babyjax13]

I think we just have to ask what is best for our team's long-term development:

1) getting the young guys playoff experience
2) getting another lottery pick

Normally I think the answer is #2, at least in the stage of the rebuild we are in, but with this next class being pretty bad & the chance of losing a lottery pick in a better draft I think that #1 is the answer here.

[bkohler]

I think we just have to ask what is best for our team's long-term development:

1) getting the young guys playoff experience
2) getting another lottery pick

Normally I think the answer is #2, at least in the stage of the rebuild we are in, but with this next class being pretty bad & the chance of losing a lottery pick in a better draft I think that #1 is the answer here.

Can you thread the needle a bit with this and potentially move off some of the players that could bring in value but still make a push for the play-in?

Move Olynyk and Clarkson, and still keep enough good players to make a run?

[Inigo Montoya]

Can you thread the needle a bit with this and potentially move off some of the players that could bring in value but still make a push for the play-in?

Move Olynyk and Clarkson, and still keep enough good players to make a run?

I think Clarkson and Olynyk have shown they are quite important to this particular roster, but a deal could be made if the return is worth it. We also have THT as an expiring contract. If, for example, the Lakers were willing to part with their 2029 pick with no protections, then I'd probably move a combination of Clarkson/Olynyk/THT/Collins/Dunn. If a star player becomes available at before the trade deadline, then sure, I'd trade some players and draft picks to get him.

Another determent of owing the pick to OKC is that it prevents the Jazz from using their own picks in a trade until the OKC pick is conveyed so we might as well just get it over with. We can make do without the 10th pick (and not much better due to our record) in a weak draft.

[bkohler]

Can you thread the needle a bit with this and potentially move off some of the players that could bring in value but still make a push for the play-in?

Move Olynyk and Clarkson, and still keep enough good players to make a run?

I think Clarkson and Olynyk have shown they are quite important to this particular roster, but a deal could be made if the return is worth it. We also have THT as an expiring contract. If, for example, the Lakers were willing to part with their 2029 pick with no protections, then I'd probably move a combination of Clarkson/Olynyk/THT/Collins/Dunn. If a star player becomes available at before the trade deadline, then sure, I'd trade some players and draft picks to get him.

Another determent of owing the pick to OKC is that it prevents the Jazz from using their own picks in a trade until the OKC pick is conveyed so we might as well just get it over with. We can make do without the 10th pick (and not much better due to our record) in a weak draft.

I’ve continually beat the drum of trading some of our players for assets and then flipping those assets (and probably including some more) for better fitting pieces long term. For instance could you get 2 FRP (probably protected picks) worth of value from selling players then turn around and try and pry away Trey Murphy from the Pels?

Like a Clarkson for Fournier and a protected pick trade followed by a Olynyk for Kuminga trade and then package Kuminga, the pick and one of our own for Murphy? Idk - just wonder if we can both get value for the players we want to sell and also set our team up for more success now and in the future.

I just want to have my cake and eat it too!

[vryadli]

I’ve continually beat the drum of trading some of our players for assets and then flipping those assets (and probably including some more) for better fitting pieces long term. For instance could you get 2 FRP (probably protected picks) worth of value from selling players then turn around and try and pry away Trey Murphy from the Pels?

Like a Clarkson for Fournier and a protected pick trade followed by a Olynyk for Kuminga trade and then package Kuminga, the pick and one of our own for Murphy? Idk - just wonder if we can both get value for the players we want to sell and also set our team up for more success now and in the future.

I just want to have my cake and eat it too!

Wow! That is an exciting program! Definitely more exciting than some half-assed WCF or may be even championship obtained in boring hard-nosed blue-collar teamwork of unremarkable pieces. The ceiling and future of the team are more important than that.

Honestly, let's say they will repeat that Detroit trick - so what? The ceiling of the team still very low. Let's compare with Lakers. They have 2 superstars one of them was on the floor and got triple-double. and even Russel got 38 yesterday. Jazz has no superstar and guys like Dunn and Kelly most likely never got 40 points. Do they sell decent amount of jerseys? I doubt that very much.
All they can do to contribute to wins , wins wins - by defense and moving balls. But such wins is boring, unfashionable and provide no future for the team. Proper NBA contender has to win just by virtue of simple arithmetic sum of talent. And, of course, superstar making 30-40 attempts per a game is absolute must. Not that Jazz can achieve that, but at least they have to keep trying.

[bkohler]

I’ve continually beat the drum of trading some of our players for assets and then flipping those assets (and probably including some more) for better fitting pieces long term. For instance could you get 2 FRP (probably protected picks) worth of value from selling players then turn around and try and pry away Trey Murphy from the Pels?

Like a Clarkson for Fournier and a protected pick trade followed by a Olynyk for Kuminga trade and then package Kuminga, the pick and one of our own for Murphy? Idk - just wonder if we can both get value for the players we want to sell and also set our team up for more success now and in the future.

I just want to have my cake and eat it too!

Wow! That is an exciting program! Definitely more exciting than some half-assed WCF or may be even championship obtained in boring hard-nosed blue-collar teamwork of unremarkable pieces. The ceiling and future of the team are more important than that.

Honestly, let's say they will repeat that Detroit trick - so what? The ceiling of the team still very low. Let's compare with Lakers. They have 2 superstars one of them was on the floor and got triple-double. and even Russel got 38 yesterday. Jazz has no superstar and guys like Dunn and Kelly most likely never got 40 points. Do they sell decent amount of jerseys? I doubt that very much.
All they can do to contribute to wins , wins wins - by defense and moving balls. But such wins is boring, unfashionable and provide no future for the team. Proper NBA contender has to win just by virtue of simple arithmetic sum of talent. And, of course, superstar making 30-40 attempts per a game is absolute must. Not that Jazz can achieve that, but at least they have to keep trying.

I don’t quite understand the critique here, are you saying we shouldn’t move out expiring guys or that we should tank for a superstar… I get both vibes out of this.

I would just like to see us move the players that don’t have long term value because they’re expiring (Olynyk) or are redundant (Clarkson/Sexton/George). And then attempt to use that value to get better.

This Jazz team is playing great but I don’t think anyone would argue it’s especially well constructed. Moving some pieces for some that fit better would be better in the short term and the long term.

[FJS]

https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Per Tankathon, we have the 4th more difficult schedule... I think a few days ago we had the most one, since we were playing Celtics, Sixers, Bucks and Nuggets in a row.

Well see, it could be changing per days. Teams who looked stronger are falling right now (Magic, Suns, Warriors, Rockets) and teams like us who looked pretty weak are on the rise.

[vryadli]

This Jazz team is playing great but I don’t think anyone would argue it’s especially well constructed. Moving some pieces for some that fit better would be better in the short term and the long term.

I thought that to (anyone would argue that just noe Jazz IS very well constructed), because it is just epitome being especially good constructed - to perform much better than can be expected from the arithmetic sum of parts. And that is what Jazz doing, and that is already not so small sample, and that is already a number of best teams in the league.

I also thought that it quite evident, that any significant trade in that situation (when team construction is maximized performance of, ( for example KO), to such an astonishing degree ) can't bring an equivalent return it terms of performance. Because trades are done on arithmetical value of assets, Jazz trade partner just can't take into account that situational, (but permanent) increase in contribution. Simply said: KO or JC will not be half so effective in most other teams as in Jazz, so you will got may be more fromal valye, but less performance.

Why don't give the current roster and coach not some jolts and shakes and confusion, but some confidence plus some time to prove that they build something long-term great, powerful, stable?

[bkohler]

Why don't give the current roster and coach not some jolts and shakes and confusion, but some confidence plus some time to prove that they build something long-term great, powerful, stable?

Ah, I think I get you now!

I think my only argument would be that you could potentially find even more stability by getting some players who might stick around longer and help build an even better long-term team. I think Kelly O is a great example. He's really good and hugely impactful for our team, but he's also a free agent at the end of the year with no guarantee he won't go elsewhere. Would it be better to swap him for someone else who is under team control longer and thus could help provide more stability over the next year and a half?

If you wanted to keep everyone who's under contract, I could understand that, but I think looking to move Olynyk, Dunn, THT, and others that are expiring makes some sense. I don't think we should be selling at any cost, but I think having a longer-term mindset might be beneficial. I'm also not arguing to tank this year; I think if we move players for picks, we should also look at using those picks to improve this year.

Coupled with all of this we seem to have some severe redundancy at certain positions (C/PF and SG). If you could swap some of that play for quality signed for longer terms at the SF and PG position I think it would be beneficial overall.

[vryadli]

Why don't give the current roster and coach not some jolts and shakes and confusion, but some confidence plus some time to prove that they build something long-term great, powerful, stable?

Ah, I think I get you now!

I think my only argument would be that you could potentially find even more stability by getting some players who might stick around longer and help build an even better long-term team. I think Kelly O is a great example. He's really good and hugely impactful for our team, but he's also a free agent at the end of the year with no guarantee he won't go elsewhere. Would it be better to swap him for someone else who is under team control longer and thus could help provide more stability over the next year and a half?

If you wanted to keep everyone who's under contract, I could understand that, but I think looking to move Olynyk, Dunn, THT, and others that are expiring makes some sense. I don't think we should be selling at any cost, but I think having a longer-term mindset might be beneficial. I'm also not arguing to tank this year; I think if we move players for picks, we should also look at using those picks to improve this year.

Coupled with all of this we seem to have some severe redundancy at certain positions (C/PF and SG). If you could swap some of that play for quality signed for longer terms at the SF and PG position I think it would be beneficial overall.

OK, now I agree with each word in your post, but... You see I think at least KO and Dunn are so unexpectedly succesfull, exactly because they are blue-collar, non-flashy, team oriented players. with high IQ and BBIQ. So not only they contribute to the chemistry of the team, but also are the biggest benefactors of it. KO not only of primaDonovan type, has not even a caliber of Haywood and understand it (mosl likely) better than me. I think that, like Joe Ingles! he isn't going anywhere on its own. And that's even more true for Dunn. JC... he may be can got something in his head, I don't know.

I would very carefully, very gingerly consider moving Collins and Sexton in summer, when Hardy will have a time to redesign. If combining them with picks can get some clever team oriented player who is better than our current best 9 (and I can't even name one who is quite like that and available for that price), then OK.

But defimetely not somebody like Kuminiga who is already reportedly 'losing faith' in Steve Kerr and feels as though Kerr won't allow him to reach his full potential with the Warriors. Who is that Kuminga, men? He is not even close to the DWill in talent or production, and even DWills antics overweighted his talent by a lot.

[bkohler]

Yeah, I can definitely understand loving the style of play and the effort that Kelly and Dunn bring! I wish we would have signed Dunn to a long contract.

As for Kuminga I’d only trade for him to be used in a deal for someone else. I think he might turn into a decent player but we really don’t need another PF.

[vryadli]

Yeah, I can definitely understand loving the style of play and the effort that Kelly and Dunn bring! I wish we would have signed Dunn to a long contract.

As for Kuminga I’d only trade for him to be used in a deal for someone else. I think he might turn into a decent player but we really don’t need another PF.

Looks like we are thinking basically same things nad just express them differently.

[FJS]

https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Right now we have the 7th more difficult schedule, but they don't take in count home & away teams.

We have to play 30 more games, 17 at home & 13 away

We have to play 9 against East (6 at home, 3 away), 21 against West (11 at home, 10 away)

Games at Home:
EAST:
Celtics, Hawks, Cavs, Wizards, Bulls, Hornets
West:
2X Warriors, Lakers, Mavericks, 2X Rockets, 2X Spurs, 2X Wolves, Denver

Games Away:
EAST:
Hawks, Heat, Magic
West:
2X Warriors, 2X Clippers, Suns, Kings, Mavericks, Rockets, Denver, OKC


Games vs elite (Teams top 6): 11
EAST: 2 (at home vs Celtics & Cavs)
WEST: 9 (3 at home Minx2, Nuggets, 6 away ClippX2, OKC, nuggets, kings and Suns)

Games vs mediocre teams (play-in):
EAST: 5 (at home vs Hawks, bulls Away vs Hawks, Heat, Magic)
WEST: 3 (at home vs Mavs, Lakers Away vs Mavs)

Games vs bad teams (not in play-in)
EAST: 2 (at home vs Hornets, Wizards)
WEST: 9 (at home GSWx2, RocketsX2, Spursx2 Away GSWx2, Rockets)

[Jammer]

With 31 games to go, whether you make the Play-in or fall into the bottom 10 Teams and keep your pick is in Utah's hands.

9. Lakers 27-26
10. Jazz 26-27
11. Warriors 24-25
12. Houston 23-27

I figure the Jazz should finish with around 41-42 wins. That is if they didn't lose their mojo after losing Olynyk, Fontecchio & Ochai.

The Jazz have 4 games Against the Warriors, 2 next week and 2 the last week of the season.

The Jazz have 3 games against Houston, 2 Home and 1 Away.

The Jazz have 1 game against the Lakers, at Home next week.

Although you got stiffed by the Golden State cancellation, when you were playing well, you can still salvage a play-in spot by winning the series against the Warriors (3-1 would probably close them out or at least splitting (then you and them are going to be awfully close if they get back on track now that they are healthy and not worried about trades the rest of the way).

Still, I personally expect Will Hardy to get more out of Otto Porter, Jr. (who was crucial to Golden State's Championship in 2022) and Kevin Knox than their prior coaches. Unfortunately, you really could use 2 or 3 victories in the next week (Home vs. the Warriors (2X) and Lakers).

[SoCalJazzFan]

^^ I think that most people hope that we convey the pick this year, so I hope that you are right on the 41 wins (it seems about right, unless the Jazz fall apart).

[Crunch 99]

Now that wev'e lost Olynyk, Font and Ochai, I am expecting the Jazz to lose the next three games against the Warriors, Lakers and Warriors. Hope I am wrong, and perhaps this post will work as a reverse jinx.

[tugs]

This change in the rotation is for good, you think? Seems the developmental stage has begun. But this is confusing since Utah can still secure a playoffs spot

[FJS]

We are going to lose a lot of games. It's front Office decission. I hate It, but it's what It is.

[vryadli]

We are going to lose a lot of games. It's front Office decission. I hate It, but it's what It is.

... and do not develop properly the current set of young players. And ignore LM peak window. But yes, it's front Office decision and what It is.