Bargnani discussion

[Duffman100]

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oh wow.....you're right, that makes sense.....I was trying to figure out why people would be disappointed with a number one pick who is 7 feet tall and averaging 10 ppg and 3.6 rpg on 39% shooting. Edited quote

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And I agree, he's having a bad season. And everyone can be disapointed.

But everyone forgets his rookie year, everyone ignores his development in other areas. His shot is struggling and he's not a natural rebounder...so yeah, its been a tough season. But you can see the flashes of ability, so why people totally down on this kid?

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

He was the second best Rookie last year, was one of three raps to ever win ROM award twice. Now in his second season he started strong, while starting at C. Five game in he got sent to the bench. He went through a stretch where his inside game looked very forced and he was having trouble finishing around the basket. Then he got injured missed a few games and was called out in the papers. When he came back he struggled with rebounding, his shot and picking up fouls and got very little minutes. Sam apparently stopped speaking to him for three weeks. Sam put him back in the starting lineup and he has preformed better, I feel, in part due to comfort with minutes and not looking over his shoulder. Now in that time I noticed that he has improved in Boxing out, which helps for team boarding and more of a willingness to go inside when a shot goes up on either end. His man to man d has impressed me this year, I don't believe he needs double help on most big men. He struggles when they get deep position, but thats a high percentage shot for big men. I think he's doing a good job of learning how to defend post up without picking up fouls. I think he's a decent creator and we'd see it if he got the ball more. I thinks, seeing as we've been able to win while he develops that the big deal is expectations, for some about his draft position,and some holdover for those who wanted BC to draft a player who was more natural at the skills we needed. In any event, I think Andrea will be a great player in this league.

[ruckus]

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Like what? We all knew he wasn't going to be a great rebounder this year. The only thing we wanted him to do was score, and he's just struggling with his shot.

So, will he be a great rebounder next year? How about the year after that? How about his help defense? His post scoring? Mind you, I'm still a huge fan of Bargs. His 3-pt shot can change games. And I still believe in his potential. But, he really, really, really needs to develop the other aspects of his game. Because, in the long run, a jump shooting, non-rebounding center is not a good thing.

[I-AM-A-BEAST]

That is a croc. NONE of those guys had worse second seasons than Bargs. Maybe Biedrins, but that was due to limited playing time and his per-minute numbers were still good. Not to mention almost all of them were drafted at 18 besides Kaman. This cdel00 has a huge disparity between his perception and reality.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

The only aspect he's really regressed in his shooting %. Hes just not hitting his shots.

His defence, his handles, his drive, his passing, its all better. He doesn't pick up as many head down charges anymore. He's dunking the ball more than last year. He's getting more offensive rebounds.

He's developed! He just isn't hitting his shots. That will come.

this is true, IMO.

[airellis_23]

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My concern is that Bargs cannot evolve into a solid player, period. Did Bosh have trouble playing the 5 in his rookie season? Since entering the league, Bosh has consistently played over 50% of his minutes at the 5, and that didn't slow him down. A high standard for anyone to be held to, sure, but for the number one pick in a draft? Definately reasonable.

Oh well, I won't go on. Everything I'd say has already been repeated on here ad nauseam. It will be what it will be. We'll just have to let time run it's course and wait for the future.

U cant compare boshes development at the 5 with bargs. The fact of the matter is that in bosh's first year it was destined to be HIS team. we traded VC his first year and this greatly increased boshed production. Bargs has been thrown into a competitive team where if he makes mistakes he is going to get pulled out right away. He does not have the luxury that bosh had to play through his mistakes

Everyone really needs to calm down, Bargs is still young and will develop into a much better player. A lot of people want to trade him for a true centre...well who do u purpose we get? its not like someone is going to trade D howard for bargs Yao ming or shaque...i much rather hold on to Bargs and show patience for 1-2 more years because if we were to trade him now we could never get decent value for him. NEWSFLASH there are hardly any true centres in the NBA

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I agree with ImissJordan. Bargs' label as a "Centre" is irrelevant because he provides nothing that a C is suppose to provide. So whether he scores 20 points or not should have nothing to do with how comparable he his to a SG/SF that can do the same.

He guards big men.

[jaymeister15]

Al Jefferson, Chris Kaman, Bynum, Tyson Chandler, Andris Biedrins

All had worse sophmore seasons than Bargs. All are good C's. I would rather have any of them over Rudy Gay.

I would rather have Bynum, Jefferson, Kaman, Chandler over Roy.

Jefferson 8 ppg, 5rpg on 50% shooting
Kaman 9 ppg, 6.7 rpg 50% shooting
Bynum 8 ppg, 6 rpg on 60% shooting
Chandler 9ppg 7 rpg on 53% shooting


Biedrins is the only one that had a worse statistical season, but he only played 14 mpg. Although, in those 14 minutes, he still averaged more rebounds than Bargnani, and shot over 60%



So, all of those players you listed had a better statistical season than bargnani has had, especially when you take into account that it's the centre position we're talking about.

[Duffman100]

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So, will he be a great rebounder next year? How about the year after that? How about his help defense? His post scoring? Mind you, I'm still a huge fan of Bargs. His 3-pt shot can change games. And I still believe in his potential. But, he really, really, really needs to develop the other aspects of his game. Because, in the long run, a jump shooting, non-rebounding center is not a good thing.

He'll never be a great rebounder. But he has shown that he can grab 5-7 a game, when he stays in the game. When he's not missing his shot and not picking up early fouls.

Post scoring? You do understand that he's physically weak right now, right? That he doesn't know how to get, and hold, position in the paint, cause he's never had to. And that he's going up against guy bigger and strong that him.

[El Presidente]

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And I agree, he's having a bad season. And everyone can be disapointed.

But everyone forgets his rookie year, everyone ignores his development in other areas. His shot is struggling and he's not a natural rebounder...so yeah, its been a tough season. But you can see the flashes of ability, so why people totally down on this kid?

Doesn't it scare you that he's not a "natural rebounder".? Shouldn't rebounding be second nature to a 7-foot starting center? I've seen "flashes of ability" in Darius Miles and Eddie Curry too but would you want them on your team. I know, I know, tough comparison. I'm just trying to canvass the opinion of a Bargnani supporter that acknowledges that his rebounding is deficient. How can you justify having a starting center that provides little to no defensive presence?

My opinion of Bargs as stated earlier is that he has a chance to be a good big man but has very little chance of being "great" which is what BC/Maurizio and the braintrust were expecting.

Edit: What does the \ mean at the start of some of your posts?

[I-AM-A-BEAST]

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He guards big men.

But that is like 25% of the total responsibility. He doesn't rebound or anchor our defense. He doesn't play like C on O either.

[JN]

If Bargnani develops to the player he was projected to be...I wonder how many people will come out and admit they overreacted or they were quick to jump on him

I certainly will if it "EVER" happens.

I'm a Raptors fans first and foremost. I really don't care if I have to admit to someone that I was wrong on the internet.

[Duffman100]

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Doesn't it scare you that he's not a "natural rebounder".? Shouldn't rebounding be second nature to a 7-foot starting center? I've seen "flashes of ability" in Darius Miles and Eddie Curry too but would you want them on your team. I know, I know, tough comparison. I'm just trying to canvass the opinion of a Bargnani supporter that acknowledges that his rebounding is deficient. How can you justify having a starting center that provides little to no defensive presence?

My opinion of Bargs as stated earlier is that he has a chance to be a good big man but has very little chance of being "great" which is what BC/Maurizio and the braintrust were expecting.

Edit: What does the \ mean at the start of some of your posts?

The \ is because I'm at work, typing fast, so people don't see me on Realgm for the time I'm here.

Yeah, it would be nice if he were a natural rebounder, but I'm not overly concerned about it. I see it as, there are 3 different good rebounding players. a) the guy who has a nose for the ball b) the guy who is overly athletic c) the guy who is taught positioning and boxes out.

Bargnani can be the c guy, he just needs to get stronger. A lot of his defensive/rebounding deficiencies are because hes getting pushed around and losing the position he's established.

Once again, TIME will help this. When he improves his leg strength, improves his knowledge of the game. Bargs can be a decent rebounder, he just needs to get stronger.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

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But that is like 25% of the total responsibility. He doesn't rebound or anchor our defense. He doesn't play like C on O either.

I think the fact that he doesn't play like a C on offense was part of the allure actually. He might not have as high percentages because he plays further away,, but he's more dynamic offensively than most centers. He does rebound, not as well though, and he does a good job of boxing out. He hasn't given up a lot of boards lately. He needs to be more vocal on D, that's true. and I think that will come.

[CreaM]

Al Jefferson, Chris Kaman, Bynum, Tyson Chandler, Andris Biedrins

All had worse sophmore seasons than Bargs. All are good C's. I would rather have any of them over Rudy Gay.

I would rather have Bynum, Jefferson, Kaman, Chandler over Roy.

Dood, you have been rambling all over the thread without posting anything of substance. Can you please check your facts?

Al Jefferson was ALWAYS a solid rebounder, even from high school. He is also a traditional post player. He averaged 8/5 in 18 minutes!!. He has one of the best post games in the league. Far from anything Bargnani does, in fact, Bargnani is the exact opposite.

Chris Kaman- Check Al Jefferson.

Bynum- Check Al Jefferson

Biedrins- TOTALLY different game from Bargs. Works to get his points off offensive rebounds and putbacks. Dont even compare.

Chandler- Are you kidding me? If Bargs ever becomes 1/3 the rebounder chandler is, i will start listening to Paris Hilton.

I find it funny you compare Bargs to guys who are top rebounders in the league today. All of them.

[JN]

Al Jefferson, Chris Kaman, Bynum, Tyson Chandler, Andris Biedrins

All had worse sophmore seasons than Bargs. .

bull

[cdel00]

I give up.

I see Bargs the way BC saw him.

It's a shame he got hurt this season the knee on knee really slowed him down.

The haters rather hate, thats their right.

Not all the horses will drink . . .

EDIT: For now I will just enjoy the Raptors the way they are and support them warts and all

[Guy Smiley]

I have to agree with Imissjordan. Off all the players mentioned Roy is the one I would want with the ball with the time winding down! That dude seriously has ice in his veins.

While Bargs still has the potential to be be a star, Gay and Roy have certainly moved ahead of him and could develop into super stars

CLUTCH STATISTICS by 48 mins
From 82games.com
Rudy Gay
PTS 31.6
FG% .533
eFG% .644

[url=http://www.82games.com/0708/07POR5E.HTM]Brandon Roy
[/url]
PTS 32.5
FG% .465
eFG% .493

[url=http://www.82games.com/0708/07TOR13E.HTM]Andrea Bargnani
[/url]
PTS 17.4
FG% .333
eFG% .500

[tosi]

At this point I think Bargs is going to have to have really absorb what he learns in big man camp this summer. He has to show to himself that he was worth the number 1 pick. And if he doesn't, the shame is for him alone.

[jaymeister15]

I give up.

I see Bargs the way BC saw him.

It's a shame he got hurt this season the knee on knee really slowed him down.

The haters rather hate, thats their right.

Not all the horses will drink . . .

lol, you make a list of centres and say they had worse second seasons than Bargs, and then have several people show that your list was entirely wrong... instead of admitting you were wrong, you just say you give up and act like everyone who disagrees with you is just hating for the sake of hating.