What if trading for an allstar SG/SF meant trading Andrea?

[Shaazzam]

Sure you can. You just need to come up with some all star players like Jason Kidd, or even Tracy McGrady, that it would probably be silly to trade Bargs for.

Good point.

[The_Hater]

Sure you can. You just need to come up with some all star players like Jason Kidd, or even AI, that it would probably be silly to trade Bargs for.

True enough.

[Bargs7]

Edit: Armchair moderating is not allowed.

[Komodo]

Tinkering with our wings for the time being is the best option. Some realistic options are Michael Pietrus, Damien Wilkins, Devan George, Marquis Daniels, Adrian Griffin, Quinton Ross, and Ime Udoka.

However, only Pietrus or Daniels would a noticeable upgrade Moon. George would also bring some much needed size and experience to our small foward slot. Any of these 3 would be a good addition.

I like Harpring, Najera, and Artest too, but Utah and Denver have no reason to deal them, and Artest is crazy and would cost too much anyways.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

I'd trade almost anybody for sheed right now, the way he's playing. It's not his numbers but I love how he plays to win consistently, he's a rich mans garbo. I was just watching the pistons hawks game and Sheed fouled out with 23 seconds left, battling for the board and defending a putback. Smith misses a free throw. It looked to me that Sheed yelled across the court "Bitch. The ball don't lie. The ball don't lie."

Call me a jerk, but I like his style. If he was a few years younger I'd trade Bosh for him.

[Carnage]

Call me a jerk, but I like his style. If he was a few years younger I'd trade Bosh for him.

We almost did.

There was a rumour of Sheed coming to Toronto for the 4th pick and AD

[talha_raps]

pretty much trade rasho and some of our depth i say to get that one significant star player at the wing. or just trade for a defense only type player who can shoot at times.

[reck0n3r]

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There was this guy who would repeatedly tell me how dumb the +/- stat was and how it should not be used in any way shape or form in the analysis of a player. Surprisingly this is one of Bargnani's strongest stats so it is good to see you are using it to prop up the player we all cheer for.

If you happen to figure out which poster it was that would bash that stat please point out to him how the +/- stat clearly establishes Bargnani as a force to be reckoned with both now and in the future. More than ever you have made me a believer in the +/- stat when the doubters had otherwise shaken my confidence in my faith in the +/- statistic in isolation.

Regardless of how poor Andrea's other statistical measures appear to be it is comforting knowing the +/- stat paints the true picture of his incredible performances.

Considering many of the fools on this board have the strange impression that the opposition goes on game changing runs while bargnani is in the game, yeah, it's a telling sign. How in gods name does someone, who horrying on the court, come out with the 2nd best +/- for the team? Shouldn't he be dead last? I would think so.

[reck0n3r]

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I'm glad you are fully on board with the +/- stat because there were very few staunch supporters of this stat when Andrea was at or near the bottom of the list in that category.

I have always liked that stat and have used it supplement some of the other statistical measures when formulating a complete analysis. I still believe it is one of many stats that need to be accounted for before a definitive conclusion can be reached.

Otherwise D Mart's +13.6 would top the charts for the team high.

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR.HTM

Edit: Glad to see Centre Court has joined the +/- bandwagon too. It is filling up fast so please remember your manners and line up single file.

Okay now see, my purpose for pointing out his +/- stat is not for the purpose of saying "LOOK HOW GREAT ANDREA IS!", but moreso to point out, as I have stated many times in the past, that andrea doesn't have as negative of an impact on the team while he's on the court as some of you think. Even when he wasn't playing well.

[reck0n3r]

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Since that Boston game, Bargnani's a ridiculous +107.

No one on the team even comes remotely close to that.

The previous 9 games before that Boston turnaround, he was a team worst -21.

Okay, maybe I was wrong?

[Smills91]

depends how good the all star is (or "what" he is good at).

if he can create and defend, i would trade anyone but bosh.

Ron Artest

[Guy Smiley]

Considering many of the fools on this board have the strange impression that the opposition goes on game changing runs while bargnani is in the game, yeah, it's a telling sign. How in gods name does someone, who horrying on the court, come out with the 2nd best +/- for the team? Shouldn't he be dead last? I would think so.

I think you have missed the point of my post. Simply put, I like the +/- stat and have always defended it when pansies have cried about how useless and flawed it is as a statistical measure. Now that Bargnani is playing better this stat seems to support what we see on the court.

Okay now see, my purpose for pointing out his +/- stat is not for the purpose of saying "LOOK HOW GREAT ANDREA IS!", but moreso to point out, as I have stated many times in the past, that andrea doesn't have as negative of an impact on the team while he's on the court as some of you think. Even when he wasn't playing well.

This stat on its own cannot prove or disprove how great a player is so I'm glad you weren't using that this way. However, if you look at the +/- stat when Bargnani wasn't playing well it clearly indicated he had a negative impact on the team and Sam rightly benched the pansy. Numbers don't often lie but it is a matter of properly analyzing them and interpreting them correctly.

[emfive]

I agree with dagger. We cannot contemplate trading any big without a replacement. And if it Bargs it better be what the admin considers a long term solution. In more than a few ways, I feel, we are thinner at the 4 and 5 than we are elsewhere.

[The Duke]

I dont see Bargs being a big enuff payoff to land an all-start SG/SF rite now.... at least one that im confortable with

That being said, if a deal were to surface, I'd highly consider it, but the relative longterm value would have to be looked at. Bargs has shown that he mite turn into a reasonable player, that being said, I still think theres room to wait on deals with Bargs... especially until we can trade of of our PG's, cuz frankly we had an overload with PG talent, who cant be on the floor at the same time... we need to redistribute this talent, in the form of a trade...... the problem I had is if we do trade Bargs for SG/SF, we will have the problem inside without a longterm C, and still the talent log-jam at the point.

[ahmed3]

id trade andrea for Josh smith

[Teabag]

I dont see Bargs being a big enuff payoff to land an all-start SG/SF rite now.... at least one that im confortable with

That being said, if a deal were to surface, I'd highly consider it, but the relative longterm value would have to be looked at. Bargs has shown that he mite turn into a reasonable player, that being said, I still think theres room to wait on deals with Bargs... especially until we can trade of of our PG's, cuz frankly we had an overload with PG talent, who cant be on the floor at the same time... we need to redistribute this talent, in the form of a trade...... the problem I had is if we do trade Bargs for SG/SF, we will have the problem inside without a longterm C, and still the talent log-jam at the point.

I'm not so sure about that ... if Kwame Bust can get the Wizards Caron Buttler than I think Bargnani could land someone of eqaul value ... Bargnani still has that new car smell where Brown was a Bondo baby with a new paint job after a big wreck

[cdel00]

A great trade was proposed on the trade boards involving 4 teams with the Raps giving up Moon, Kapono, and a 1st round draft pick.

In return we'd get Maggette.

I would like to create a poll to get the board's thoughts on the trade and hopefully have the idea of it leak upwards to BC

Edit: link to the trade proposal
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?...9#15500449

[Scott Carefoot]

Corey Maggette is not as good as many of you think he is. He's 28 and having a career-best season (second-best FG%, best 3P%, second-best PPG) so you can be assured that he's most likely at his peak right now. Also, he's a career 45% shooter and 32% shooter from beyond the arc. From my observations of FG% over careers the length of Maggette's, I strongly predict his percentages will drop next season.

There's also the fact that he turns the ball over too much, is a bit of a black hole and is a turnstile on defence. Bottom line, he's not the player you think he is, nor is he the wing player the Raptors want.

It should be obvious to everyone by now that the Raptors are being built to grow into championship form in three seasons. Now that Bargnani is showing signs of getting his confidence back and displaying the potential that got him drafted first overall, he's pretty much untouchable (in BC's mind) in terms of any wing player that would conceivably be available for him at the moment. BC would turn down a Maggette offer in a nanosecond.

[cdel00]

Good insight Scott but if you look at how effective Corey has been this year consistently putting up awesome numbers in terms of points per FGA his presence would definitely put the Raps up a couple of notches.

Lets look at his play in 2008, his last 17 games:

FGA PNTS
16 20
14 20
17 26
15 35
18 33
8 19
14 35
13 24
13 21
15 23
16 31
14 20
13 21
09 20
14 27
13 14
15 20


That production screams of offensive efficiency. With that kind of offensive prowess combined with Jose (who's efficiency is even better) and Bosh the Raps become an offensive juggernaut.

Thats 3 positions who put up points from few FGA and can do so consistently.

Edit: that said if we could get Maggs and KEEP Bargs I think BC would consider it.

[The Duke]

-= original quote snipped =-
I'm not so sure about that ... if Kwame Bust can get the Wizards Caron Buttler than I think Bargnani could land someone of eqaul value ... Bargnani still has that new car smell where Brown was a Bondo baby with a new paint job after a big wreck

Well Caron when traded was not an all-star and not the Caron Butler of now.... Can Bargs be traded for an up and coming player, yes, but I dont think he can net a positive all-star, without excess baggage coming this way.