What if trading for an allstar SG/SF meant trading Andrea?

[ImissJordan]

Agreed.

He will have his rough nights, but the trend is encouraging.

As for the offence makes good defence argument, why not stick (at least for the foreseeable future) with a C who can create for opposing C's. Why not make Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum or Shaq work outside of their comfort area guarding a C who has offensive skills unlike anything they normally see?

When we first drafted Andrea, I had visions of opposing oafs scrambling and tripping all over themselves while Bargnani was nailing three-balls and beating guys off the dribble.

And he's shown me that kind of capability in flashes.

However, can't opposing teams counter by putting a smaller player on Andrea, thereby ensuring that they don't surrender their lane intimidation?

[C Court]

While I believe that Bargnani can be dealt in the right deal, we must be getting a C in return or have access to a C via other means. Dagger and others are correct. Its not easy to find C's.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

FREE MESSY!!!!!

[Guy Smiley]

Bargs +/- this year has been outstanding... he is second on the team behind Bosh in +/- per minute, so the benefits he brings on offense surely outweigh the weaknesses he has on defense (as well, if you consider that he is having a fairly dreadful year on offense, his +/- numbers are even more poignant).

There was this guy who would repeatedly tell me how dumb the +/- stat was and how it should not be used in any way shape or form in the analysis of a player. Surprisingly this is one of Bargnani's strongest stats so it is good to see you are using it to prop up the player we all cheer for.

If you happen to figure out which poster it was that would bash that stat please point out to him how the +/- stat clearly establishes Bargnani as a force to be reckoned with both now and in the future. More than ever you have made me a believer in the +/- stat when the doubters had otherwise shaken my confidence in my faith in the +/- statistic in isolation.

Regardless of how poor Andrea's other statistical measures appear to be it is comforting knowing the +/- stat paints the true picture of his incredible performances.

[dacrusha]

-= original quote snipped =-

Regardless of how poor Andrea's other statistical measures appear to be it is comforting knowing the +/- stat paints the true picture of his incredible performances.

Don't be so naive.

The +/- stat is obviously a reflection of how great the other four players have been alongside Bargs, not Bargs himself.

Not sure why they pick up their game to compensate for Barg's repeatedly disasterous outings.

[C Court]

-= original quote snipped =-



Don't be so naive.

The +/- stat is obviously a reflection of how great the other four players have been alongside Bargs, not Bargs himself.

Not sure why they pick up their game to compensate for Barg's repeatedly disasterous outings.

Agreed. If Bargs was the disaster on defence that many claim, surely you would expect his +/- to be a lot worse. Also, one would expect that the bigs he guards should be enjoying career nights. Again, that's not happening.

[Guy Smiley]

Don't be so naive.

The +/- stat is obviously a reflection of how great the other four players have been alongside Bargs, not Bargs himself.

Not sure why they pick up their game to compensate for Barg's repeatedly disasterous outings.

I'm glad you are fully on board with the +/- stat because there were very few staunch supporters of this stat when Andrea was at or near the bottom of the list in that category.

I have always liked that stat and have used it supplement some of the other statistical measures when formulating a complete analysis. I still believe it is one of many stats that need to be accounted for before a definitive conclusion can be reached.

Otherwise D Mart's +13.6 would top the charts for the team high.

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708TOR.HTM

Edit: Glad to see Centre Court has joined the +/- bandwagon too. It is filling up fast so please remember your manners and line up single file.

[Komodo]

[quote="Shaazzam"][/quote]

Excellent post. Very well said, and I wholeheartedly agree.

[Air Canada]

Unless were getting an all-star caliber player, Id do it. But if were not, I wouldnt. I think Bargnani has too much potential to give up on.

[Guy Smiley]

Seriously though folks we need to look at the whole picture and I'm glad Andrea is playing better than he did to start the season. He appears to be a slow starter and needs to get into a rhythm as the season goes on.

What do you guys

[ansoncarter]

sam takes bargs out of the game the second things turn sour. His plus/minus is warped

[cdel00]

Kinda related and weird at the same time but Messiah has got something to say.

Is this guy banned or something? I kinda enjoyed his rants.

Messy's comment

[RapsVC15]

-= original quote snipped =-



Oh man, I still believe that Bargnani can be a big time game-breaker. When he gets it going offensively he can blow a game wide open.

What has his +/- been the last few weeks, Fairview?

Since that Boston game, Bargnani's a ridiculous +107.

No one on the team even comes remotely close to that.

The previous 9 games before that Boston turnaround, he was a team worst -21.

[The_Hater]

Since I don't believe that AB will ever be an all-star caliber player, trading him for one is a no-brainer in my books.

[cdel00]

Bargs stays simple as that. He will become a superstar and the Raps will have a terrific team for years to come. BC is an AWESOME GM and I stand behind the way he has reshaped this team.

[cdel00]

We are weak in 2 areas right now: C and on the wings (SF/SG). We have average to below-average players at those spots (and no Andrea is not a difference maker yet). However, plugging up the wings at this point with an allstar might require something of value. Trading for Ron Artest is going to require eating up Thomas' salary. Trading for Mike Miller is going to require eating up Cardinal's salary. I don't think the franchise is willing to go that route.

However, there might be some other options out there that require assets instead of eating salaries. How would you feel about trading Andrea if it meant getting back an allstar or a near-allstar talent at the wings (somebody like Iguodala comes to mind)? Would you do it or are you tantalized by what Bargnani could become and wait?

What if we could RENT a great wing player like Maggette without touching the core does that not make more sense?

[elmer_yuck]

I'm not a Bargnani fan, but I would only trade him if we got a better center back. Meaning it would have to be a package of Bargnani and some other assets. However,
since TJ got hurt, making it much harder to trade him or Calderon, I don't think we have the assets to get
a better center back.

[Fairview4Life]

What do you guys

[Shaazzam]

Since I don't believe that AB will ever be an all-star caliber player, trading him for one is a no-brainer in my books.

Based on your opinion of his projection, I can't disagree with your statement.

[Fairview4Life]

Based on your opinion of his projection, I can't disagree with your statement.

Sure you can. You just need to come up with some all star players like Jason Kidd, or even AI, that it would probably be silly to trade Bargs for.

I'd even argue not trading him for Jamison, Sheed, Rip, or Billups.

Not exactly a no brainer.