Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason

[JB7]

Two “realistic” off season scenarios

1) lose the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2024 lottery pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed assets for draft capital.

2) keep the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2025 pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed contracts for draft capital.

Both scenarios see next season as a tank with Kelly O starting at C

One more season to develop young guys and implement system (read: tank) for elite talent and 2025-2026 is when they start trying to legit compete again

I think Masai is too stubborn to tank from the jump. He likes optionality

Every year, there will be like 4 teams tanking hard for the highest lottery chance to draft 1st overall. To match the level of tanking those teams are doing, the Raps would need to play the whole season like they did for the last quarter of this past season.

If they play that bad, none of BBQ will want to remain on the team.

The better strategy is to do what Masai is doing. See how the team starts out of the gate, and by the last third of the season, if things are not going well, tank hard to increase the chance of a high pick. At that point, players may be more accepting of sitting more.

[MikeG]

Two “realistic” off season scenarios

1) lose the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2024 lottery pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed assets for draft capital.

2) keep the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2025 pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed contracts for draft capital.

Both scenarios see next season as a tank with Kelly O starting at C

One more season to develop young guys and implement system (read: tank) for elite talent and 2025-2026 is when they start trying to legit compete again

Is there any team that would actually trade a lotto pick (or even a FRP in general) for Poeltl that can also digest or match the salary? I’m not even sure that’s on the table at all- although I’d love it to be.

Memphis could trade Kennard and 8th for Poeltl. The success the Wolves are having with two bigs might motivate them to shift JJJ back to PF. We would have a lower pick than what we gave up to the Spurs though. Not sure how the optics of that would look.

lol dude there’s no wayyyyy we get kennard And the 8th

[Thaddy]

Is there any team that would actually trade a lotto pick (or even a FRP in general) for Poeltl that can also digest or match the salary? I’m not even sure that’s on the table at all- although I’d love it to be.

Memphis could trade Kennard and 8th for Poeltl. The success the Wolves are having with two bigs might motivate them to shift JJJ back to PF. We would have a lower pick than what we gave up to the Spurs though. Not sure how the optics of that would look.

lol dude there’s no wayyyyy we get kennard And the 8th

They need to make the salary match. I could see us doing something like Poeltl + 19 for 8th + Clarke + Konchar. It would depend on who's available at 8th. If Topic drops and our scouts like him I would do a trade like this. Our scouting department has been pretty good.

[2019nbachamps]

Two “realistic” off season scenarios

1) lose the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2024 lottery pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed assets for draft capital.

2) keep the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2025 pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed contracts for draft capital.

Both scenarios see next season as a tank with Kelly O starting at C

One more season to develop young guys and implement system (read: tank) for elite talent and 2025-2026 is when they start trying to legit compete again

I think Masai is too stubborn to tank from the jump. He likes optionality

Every year, there will be like 4 teams tanking hard for the highest lottery chance to draft 1st overall. To match the level of tanking those teams are doing, the Raps would need to play the whole season like they did for the last quarter of this past season.

If they play that bad, none of BBQ will want to remain on the team.

The better strategy is to do what Masai is doing. See how the team starts out of the gate, and by the last third of the season, if things are not going well, tank hard to increase the chance of a high pick. At that point, players may be more accepting of sitting more.

It’ll depend on what happens with our pick next month.

But it’s clear what Masai did to start the season was a mistake. He tried to run back a team that couldn’t make the playoffs with a worse coach and starting PG. We missed out on potentially the 5th worst record and a better return for Pascal.

Things are a bit different going into next season since by default we currently dont have a team capable of winning 35+ games.

[JB7]

I think Masai is too stubborn to tank from the jump. He likes optionality

Every year, there will be like 4 teams tanking hard for the highest lottery chance to draft 1st overall. To match the level of tanking those teams are doing, the Raps would need to play the whole season like they did for the last quarter of this past season.

If they play that bad, none of BBQ will want to remain on the team.

The better strategy is to do what Masai is doing. See how the team starts out of the gate, and by the last third of the season, if things are not going well, tank hard to increase the chance of a high pick. At that point, players may be more accepting of sitting more.

It’ll depend on what happens with our pick next month.

But it’s clear what Masai did to start the season was a mistake. He tried to run back a team that couldn’t make the playoffs with a worse coach and starting PG. We missed out on potentially the 5th worst record and a better return for Pascal.

Things are a bit different going into next season since by default we currently dont have a team capable of winning 35+ games.

Are you sure about that last statement?

So you were suggesting they should have just thrown in the towel at the start of the season, for the potential to move up one spot in the lottery odds?

Also, a lottery pick from this draft is not going to dramatically impact the performance of this team next season. The uptick will come from the players currently on the roster, or any players brought in through trade or signing.

[Pointgod]

Realistic offseason is that we have a predictable draft, whether or not we lose the pick, decline Brown, let GTJ walk, extend Quickley and sign some MLE type role players to short term deals so the front office can “evaluate”

Not sure if this is the free agent class but it we need to take more gambles on the Jalen Brunson type free agent. The guys that kind of fly under the radar but have demonstrated the have the tools to make a leap. I’m prepared for another quiet offseason.

[will]

Two “realistic” off season scenarios

1) lose the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2024 lottery pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed assets for draft capital.

2) keep the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2025 pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed contracts for draft capital.

Both scenarios see next season as a tank with Kelly O starting at C

One more season to develop young guys and implement system (read: tank) for elite talent and 2025-2026 is when they start trying to legit compete again

Is there any team that would actually trade a lotto pick (or even a FRP in general) for Poeltl that can also digest or match the salary? I’m not even sure that’s on the table at all- although I’d love it to be.

Memphis could trade Kennard and 8th for Poeltl. The success the Wolves are having with two bigs might motivate them to shift JJJ back to PF. We would have a lower pick than what we gave up to the Spurs though. Not sure how the optics of that would look.

We can also say that the success of the two bigs is due to that Anthony guy. Forgot his last name. He's been pretty good during the playoffs.

[OAKLEY_2]

Realistic offseason is that we have a predictable draft, whether or not we lose the pick, decline Brown, let GTJ walk, extend Quickley and sign some MLE type role players to short term deals so the front office can “evaluate”

Not sure if this is the free agent class but it we need to take more gambles on the Jalen Brunson type free agent. The guys that kind of fly under the radar but have demonstrated the have the tools to make a leap. I’m prepared for another quiet offseason.

It won't be quiet. We lost OG, Paskal, and Precious.

[2019nbachamps]

Every year, there will be like 4 teams tanking hard for the highest lottery chance to draft 1st overall. To match the level of tanking those teams are doing, the Raps would need to play the whole season like they did for the last quarter of this past season.

If they play that bad, none of BBQ will want to remain on the team.

The better strategy is to do what Masai is doing. See how the team starts out of the gate, and by the last third of the season, if things are not going well, tank hard to increase the chance of a high pick. At that point, players may be more accepting of sitting more.

It’ll depend on what happens with our pick next month.

But it’s clear what Masai did to start the season was a mistake. He tried to run back a team that couldn’t make the playoffs with a worse coach and starting PG. We missed out on potentially the 5th worst record and a better return for Pascal.

Things are a bit different going into next season since by default we currently dont have a team capable of winning 35+ games.

Are you sure about that last statement?

So you were suggesting they should have just thrown in the towel at the start of the season, for the potential to move up one spot in the lottery odds?

Also, a lottery pick from this draft is not going to dramatically impact the performance of this team next season. The uptick will come from the players currently on the roster, or any players brought in through trade or signing.

We dont have a good team now. We traded OG for 2 starters while losing Pascal and FVV for no immediate help. We've also downgraded at coach. The cupboard is pretty bare. Next little while will be dedicated to developing our young core and building depth via draft picks and trades/signings on the margins. This team is incapable of winning now. The saving grace is Masai admitted defeat on New Year's Eve (about 10 months too late) but better late than never. It's time to rebuild.

For the record, I think it's silly what we did to start this year and it'd be silly to do it again. I believe Masai has learned his lesson and is now laser focused on rebuilding.

[will]

Realistically, I am not expecting much change. Will end up with random FA signings and then having to resort to praying they work.

Will be shocked if there are any players of significance that want to join the Raptors out of their own free will.

[Tacoma]

It’ll depend on what happens with our pick next month.

But it’s clear what Masai did to start the season was a mistake. He tried to run back a team that couldn’t make the playoffs with a worse coach and starting PG. We missed out on potentially the 5th worst record and a better return for Pascal.

Things are a bit different going into next season since by default we currently dont have a team capable of winning 35+ games.

Are you sure about that last statement?

So you were suggesting they should have just thrown in the towel at the start of the season, for the potential to move up one spot in the lottery odds?

Also, a lottery pick from this draft is not going to dramatically impact the performance of this team next season. The uptick will come from the players currently on the roster, or any players brought in through trade or signing.

We dont have a good team now. We traded OG for 2 starters while losing Pascal and FVV for no immediate help. We've also downgraded at coach. The cupboard is pretty bare. Next little while will be dedicated to developing our young core and building depth via draft picks and trades/signings on the margins. This team is incapable of winning now. The saving grace is Masai admitted defeat on New Year's Eve (about 10 months too late) but better late than never. It's time to rebuild.

For the record, I think it's silly what we did to start this year and it'd be silly to do it again. I believe Masai has learned his lesson and is now laser focused on rebuilding.

Masai said this at his year end presser, and I quote:

"I think we'll see how the year (2024-05 season) starts and plays out. We're going to give these players and this team the opportunity to play. We've not been able to bring these guys together to play and that's the plan."

This sounds to me like he wants this team to try to win and develop at the same time to start the season; and then around halfway point, if the team is not in the playoff hunt, then he'll go full tank. Thus I think Masai will try and shore up the players around BBQ and then see how it goes. It'll be a repeat of the strategy for the 2023-04 season but with a new core (BBQ).

[Dalek]

I know they preach patience with this team, but with the Siakam and OG trades we lost significant forward depth where we used have a strength. I get that they didn't want to pay super max type money for Siakam, and maybe OG wanted to move on, but the deals left a gaping hole in the starting five.

Who is the fifth starter?
-Gradey Dick won't be ready and honestly I don't like the fit with this group.
-Agbaji is a great defender but is so flawed on offense.
-Olynyk is too old to start.
-Any draft pick is very unlikely to start in any capacity in the first year.
-Bruce Brown is a stop-gap for one season and the scenario if they want to tank the year.
-Free agency is likely the route to go if they want to be competitive.

If they waive Brown two guys make a ton of sense to me:

Isaac Okoro. I don't know if this RFA will be a guy the Cavs willingly go above the cap for, but I honestly love the fit for Toronto. Great defender with size, shoots near 40% from three and can slot into a starting line-up if they prefer Barnes in a four man role. With Mitchell and Mobley to be extended, the Cavs might not match a $20m/4 year deal. Great value for a 23 year-old.

Patrick Williams. He is in the same position as Okoro. Slightly below expectations, the team has other decisions to make and the question is whether they view him as a core piece. He could allow Barnes to play three man, and will offer shooting and defense.

Both have connections to Barnes, both provide defense and some size to the starting line-up. Age-wise they line-up well.

[will]

I know they preach patience with this team, but with the Siakam and OG trades we lost significant forward depth where we used have a strength. I get that they didn't want to pay super max type money for Siakam, and maybe OG wanted to move on, but the deals left a gaping hole in the starting five.

Who is the fifth starter?
-Gradey Dick won't be ready and honestly I don't like the fit with this group.
-Agbaji is a great defender but is so flawed on offense.
-Olynyk is too old to start.
-Any draft pick is very unlikely to start in any capacity in the first year.
-Bruce Brown is a stop-gap for one season and the scenario if they want to tank the year.
-Free agency is likely the route to go if they want to be competitive.

If they waive Brown two guys make a ton of sense to me:

Isaac Okoro. I don't know if this RFA will be a guy the Cavs willingly go above the cap for, but I honestly love the fit for Toronto. Great defender with size, shoots near 40% from three and can slot into a starting line-up if they prefer Barnes in a four man role. With Mitchell and Mobley to be extended, the Cavs might not match a $20m/4 year deal. Great value for a 23 year-old.

Patrick Williams. He is in the same position as Okoro. Slightly below expectations, the team has other decisions to make and the question is whether they view him as a core piece. He could allow Barnes to play three man, and will offer shooting and defense.

Both have connections to Barnes, both provide defense and some size to the starting line-up. Age-wise they line-up well.

Isaac is a good shout. The Cavs all but gave him the swingman spot, but he's never consistently held it down. A lot due to injuries.

Patrick is always hurt. Always.

Malik Monk would be fun. Don't see him leaving SAC with his college mate. Going to need another guy to space the floor.

[Pointgod]

Realistic offseason is that we have a predictable draft, whether or not we lose the pick, decline Brown, let GTJ walk, extend Quickley and sign some MLE type role players to short term deals so the front office can “evaluate”

Not sure if this is the free agent class but it we need to take more gambles on the Jalen Brunson type free agent. The guys that kind of fly under the radar but have demonstrated the have the tools to make a leap. I’m prepared for another quiet offseason.

It won't be quiet. We lost OG, Paskal, and Precious.

Last season we lost Fred, Delano and some other guys, then brought back Gary, Thad Young and signed Temple, Schroeder and McDaniels.

The Siakam and OG trades were our big moves and from all indications the front office is not going to rebuild but wants to move forward with young players over picks. I don’t see a big move based on past performance.

[OAKLEY_2]

I know they preach patience with this team, but with the Siakam and OG trades we lost significant forward depth where we used have a strength. I get that they didn't want to pay super max type money for Siakam, and maybe OG wanted to move on, but the deals left a gaping hole in the starting five.

Who is the fifth starter?
-Gradey Dick won't be ready and honestly I don't like the fit with this group.
-Agbaji is a great defender but is so flawed on offense.
-Olynyk is too old to start.
-Any draft pick is very unlikely to start in any capacity in the first year.
-Bruce Brown is a stop-gap for one season and the scenario if they want to tank the year.
-Free agency is likely the route to go if they want to be competitive.

If they waive Brown two guys make a ton of sense to me:

Isaac Okoro. I don't know if this RFA will be a guy the Cavs willingly go above the cap for, but I honestly love the fit for Toronto. Great defender with size, shoots near 40% from three and can slot into a starting line-up if they prefer Barnes in a four man role. With Mitchell and Mobley to be extended, the Cavs might not match a $20m/4 year deal. Great value for a 23 year-old.

Patrick Williams. He is in the same position as Okoro. Slightly below expectations, the team has other decisions to make and the question is whether they view him as a core piece. He could allow Barnes to play three man, and will offer shooting and defense.

Both have connections to Barnes, both provide defense and some size to the starting line-up. Age-wise they line-up well.

Three certainties. 1. They will not trade Poetl. 2. They will not walk from Brown. 3. IQ gets paid by MLSE. Everything else is up for grabs.

[Raptorfan2012]

I know they preach patience with this team, but with the Siakam and OG trades we lost significant forward depth where we used have a strength. I get that they didn't want to pay super max type money for Siakam, and maybe OG wanted to move on, but the deals left a gaping hole in the starting five.

Who is the fifth starter?
-Gradey Dick won't be ready and honestly I don't like the fit with this group.
-Agbaji is a great defender but is so flawed on offense.
-Olynyk is too old to start.
-Any draft pick is very unlikely to start in any capacity in the first year.
-Bruce Brown is a stop-gap for one season and the scenario if they want to tank the year.
-Free agency is likely the route to go if they want to be competitive.

If they waive Brown two guys make a ton of sense to me:

Isaac Okoro. I don't know if this RFA will be a guy the Cavs willingly go above the cap for, but I honestly love the fit for Toronto. Great defender with size, shoots near 40% from three and can slot into a starting line-up if they prefer Barnes in a four man role. With Mitchell and Mobley to be extended, the Cavs might not match a $20m/4 year deal. Great value for a 23 year-old.

Patrick Williams. He is in the same position as Okoro. Slightly below expectations, the team has other decisions to make and the question is whether they view him as a core piece. He could allow Barnes to play three man, and will offer shooting and defense.

Both have connections to Barnes, both provide defense and some size to the starting line-up. Age-wise they line-up well.

Three certainties. 1. They will not trade Poetl. 2. They will not walk from Brown. 3. IQ gets paid by MLSE. Everything else is up for grabs.

I agree with 1 and 3, but I can see us cutting Brown if we need the money to pay someone else this summer. I don't think the Raps really want Brown back (especially with his amount of money); we may be able to bring in 2 rotational players by splitting his $23M.

[Merit]

Unless GSW is willing to add a FRP with very light protection (ie/ top 4), then I'm not wasting Brown's contract on eating Wiggins' contract. He simply uses up way too much cap space moving forward, we'll be capped out once IQ & Scottie get their extension so he's not at all worth that. Without a pick I would not even entertain it, that would be a HORRIBLE use of remaining cap space.

Personally I'd be reaching out to the Pels and see what it would require to get one of their wings (from least likely to most: Trey, BI or Jones). They simply can not afford to keep all of those guys and we must get another longer wing. Murphy is THE ideal fit that I'd use Brown + all the picks from the Siakam trade and heck I'd throw in another one (or two - light protection) to get him but have heard Griff loves him, with BI I'd offer the Siakam package (under the assumption he re-signs) and with Herb it's Brown + IND pick.

If not maybe SAC for Harrison Barnes + their 24'. They're gonna need the money to retain Keegan who basically is the same position as HB and no Harrison isn't a game changer but at least we'd have an actual SF on the roster lol. Of course the real piece there is the 13th pick where we can snag one of Sheppard or McCain as our future back up PG then it frees up the 19th to target another position.

If we get Herb Jones for Brown and the Indy pick we laugh all the way to the bank. I sincerely hope that happens.

[Merit]

So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.

Yeah makes no sense to give all that up when your best target is Patrick Williams. He's an RFA and the Bulls have no reason to give him up unless they thinks he's overpaid. And even on a fair deal don't know why we would commit long term money to him if he's not a fit in the starting lineup, don't really think his potential is that high.

Funny that he says GTJ is "a free agent we might not even be able to sign" when that applies to everyone he would want to target lol

Yeah like obviously if GTJ bails you can re-consider your approach but to me it is frankly horrible asset management to renounce GTJ, decline Brown, trade Boucher and 31, and then HOPE you are able to sign Pat Will. It just doesn't make any sense because A) Pat Will has to agree and then B) you have to wait for days while CHI decides what they are doing. The only way to get PatWill is to overpay - which makes no sense with our long term salary concerns with RJ/IQ/Barne all going to be making big-ish cash soon.

This plan to me screams that we are going to end up with exactly nothing AND lose our pending FA's.

What if we moved off those 3 guys and knew we could get Nic Claxton instead of PWill? I for one would trade Brown and Boucher for Claxton.

[Merit]

Yeah I don't know where this Pat Williams talk is coming from. Its very hard to pry an RFA away - you will need to trade for them instead of trying to out-bid the team that has their rights. Only way to get an RFA is if that team already has a big payroll and doesn't want to add more - are the Bulls in that position?

There is a higher chance that we do some sort of sign and trade involving Brown and Pat Will (where we throw them #19 or #31 as well) than there is we sign him as an RFA.

That is more interesting to discuss.

I wouldn't. Brown is better than PWill and we are looking to develop a wing in Gradey anyway. Now if we got a wing that was equal or better than Brown, consider me interested.

[DreamTeam09]

Realistic offseason is that we have a predictable draft, whether or not we lose the pick, decline Brown, let GTJ walk, extend Quickley and sign some MLE type role players to short term deals so the front office can “evaluate”

Not sure if this is the free agent class but it we need to take more gambles on the Jalen Brunson type free agent. The guys that kind of fly under the radar but have demonstrated the have the tools to make a leap. I’m prepared for another quiet offseason.

we can sign a MLE player without letting those 2 walk... If we let those two walk, that's caps pace that would be opened up.

A trade will happen this draft/summer
we will sign someone to the MLE