My Review of FO moves - 20/20 Armchair GM Hindsight

[Duffman100]

I don't want them fired, because I am a believer in continuity.....but I also wouldn't be upset if they both resigned tomorrow, if that makes any sense.

They can definitely draft, and that is what we need to hit on over the next 2 years.

I wouldn't be devastated. I'd be wary given when you look at the Blue Jays and how strong Rogers influence is there.

[Chandan]

Firing Nurse, Hiring Darko - Agree

Let me first say - Nick Nurse is an excellent coach and done an amazing job with the Sixers. However I'm firmly in the boat that Nurse had to be let go. A great tactical coach but not a good development/culture coach. Furthermore, there's the obvious known issue where Nurse ride his guys heavy minutes which isn't sustainable long-term.

While Darko isn't the best tactical coach, i believe he's a good coach for development/culture. A notable example is Gradey Dick who i believe would had his confidence destroyed by a coach like Nurse.

it depends on how rare do you think nurse tier coaches come by. If one is needed to bring the team to elite territory, then we have to spent years again trying to find another one (and it might not even happen in a reasonable time frame)
Where as you can hire good assistant coaches to do darko's development job.

My thinking is always keep those are are integral to your final vision and those that are hard to obtain. (which is why giving up OG will always be a move that stings)

[anotherhomer]

Firing Nurse, Hiring Darko - Agree

Let me first say - Nick Nurse is an excellent coach and done an amazing job with the Sixers. However I'm firmly in the boat that Nurse had to be let go. A great tactical coach but not a good development/culture coach. Furthermore, there's the obvious known issue where Nurse ride his guys heavy minutes which isn't sustainable long-term.

While Darko isn't the best tactical coach, i believe he's a good coach for development/culture. A notable example is Gradey Dick who i believe would had his confidence destroyed by a coach like Nurse.

it depends on how rare do you think nurse tier coaches come by. If one is needed to bring the team to elite territory, then we have to spent years again trying to find another one (and it might not even happen in a reasonable time frame)
Where as you can hire good assistant coaches to do darko's development job.

My thinking is always keep those are are integral to your final vision and those that are hard to obtain. (which is why giving up OG will always be a move that stings)

In a perfect world, trading pascal and fvv would had allowed the team to keep OG but OG wanted to leave

[anotherhomer]

I don't want them fired, because I am a believer in continuity.....but I also wouldn't be upset if they both resigned tomorrow, if that makes any sense.

They can definitely draft, and that is what we need to hit on over the next 2 years.

I wouldn't be devastated. I'd be wary given when you look at the Blue Jays and how strong Rogers influence is there.

Yes ed rogers likes to call the shots and that means ujiri will be fired eventually

That's why I'm puzzled why ujiri didn't rebuild last year....at least he could start the rebuild right away

[Scase]

The problem with "Armchair GMs from this board" is that they also wanted to blow up Lowry/Derozan team like 17 times in that cycle (probably myself included multiple times).

Very true. But also, blowing it up worked.

We didn't really 'blow it up' in the sense that's being referred to above. We made a trade to acquire a superstar.

People wanted to get rid of DD and Casey. Worked out pretty well.

Us dummies can't build a trade that results in bringing kawai for sure, but you don't need to be mensa certified to see what isn't working.

Plenty of people dumber than Masai (in relation to the NBA) rightfully called the Jak trade a terrible move the instant it was made. That doesn't mean they are smarter than Masai in this case, but rather it means Masai SHOULD BE smarter, and not make obviously bad moves.

People (well not most of them) don't think they are smart or better than Masai at his job, but they expect him to be better than them.

[Tacoma]

It's obvious a lot of Fans, even pro-Ujiri supporters myself included feel the FO could had done a better job over the years.
BUT I do feel encouraged that Ujiri does have the long-term future of the team in mind, and has the team heading in the right direction, while balancing business considerations.

With that said, let's look at some of his moved - agreed or disagree with FO moves

Firing Nurse, Hiring Darko - Agree

Let me first say - Nick Nurse is an excellent coach and done an amazing job with the Sixers. However I'm firmly in the boat that Nurse had to be let go. A great tactical coach but not a good development/culture coach. Furthermore, there's the obvious known issue where Nurse ride his guys heavy minutes which isn't sustainable long-term.

While Darko isn't the best tactical coach, i believe he's a good coach for development/culture. A notable example is Gradey Dick who i believe would had his confidence destroyed by a coach like Nurse.

I'll play devil's advocate here on the idea that Nurse was bad at development / confidence destroyer, bad culture.

Nurse was on the coaching staff during the bench mob days when many players were developed. FVV became an all star and Siakam won MIP and became All-NBA under Nurse. Now Maxey also has won MIP in Nurse's first year in Phllly. Barnes won ROY under Nurse. I can cite other examples but how can you have that much achievement in development and also be bad at development or destroyer of player confidence?

As for culture coach, we were reputed to have great culture during the DeRozan/Lowry years when Nurse was assistant coach and in our championship year with Nurse, solid team culture was cited by many was one of the reasons we won. In Philly, Sixers players all praise Nurse, good culture and all.

Nurse had only one bad year in regards to development and questionable culture (and that's what got him fired), but that appears the exception rather than the rule. The word is still out on Darko but he has a way to go to reach the heights of Nurse not only in being an excellent tactician, but also in developing players and team culture. Nurse's record is proven.

[YogurtProducer]

Very true. But also, blowing it up worked.

We didn't really 'blow it up' in the sense that's being referred to above. We made a trade to acquire a superstar.

People wanted to get rid of DD and Casey. Worked out pretty well.

Us dummies can't build a trade that results in bringing kawai for sure, but you don't need to be mensa certified to see what isn't working.

Plenty of people dumber than Masai (in relation to the NBA) rightfully called the Jak trade a terrible move the instant it was made. That doesn't mean they are smarter than Masai in this case, but rather it means Masai SHOULD BE smarter, and not make obviously bad moves.

People (well not most of them) don't think they are smart or better than Masai at his job, but they expect him to be better than them.

Calling firing Casey after 6 playoff seasons and trading Demar "blowing it up" is REALLY stretching what that actually means.

Plenty of people dumber than Masai also called the Siakam pick a terrible pick, the Barnes pick a bad pick, the Powell extension an overpay, the Ibaka trade short-sighted, and 100 other things over the past 10 years. Almost always, once the dust settles, Masai has usually ended up being right.

[YogurtProducer]

The frustrating thing about Masai and co is that the clear misses (Poeltl trade, letting FVV walk for nothing, trading OG and Pascal a season late) seemed obvious at the moment by armchair GMs on this board. He gets credit for Barnes, but if Suggs keeps improving, even that might not be the better pick.
At the end of the day, you have to be a better GM than the nerds on this board, and in the last few seasons, I'm not sure he has been...

The problem with "Armchair GMs from this board" is that they also wanted to blow up Lowry/Derozan team like 17 times in that cycle (probably myself included multiple times).

Every single off-season, including the one after the championship, had this place filled with "blow it up" TWO threads.

That is why it is so funny seeing the "I TOLD YOU SO" posts now when they are been wrong, and laughably so, 90% of the time.

[ontnut]

The problem with "Armchair GMs from this board" is that they also wanted to blow up Lowry/Derozan team like 17 times in that cycle (probably myself included multiple times).

Very true. But also, blowing it up worked.

We didn't really 'blow it up' in the sense that's being referred to above. We made a trade to acquire a superstar.

People wanted Demar gone for a bag of chips. Masai got Kawhi instead.

[C_Money]

Very true. But also, blowing it up worked.

We didn't really 'blow it up' in the sense that's being referred to above. We made a trade to acquire a superstar.

People wanted Demar gone for a bag of chips. Masai got Kawhi instead.

There’s no question Masai was elite back then but wtf has happened since?

[Childs]

This year, if we lose our pick, I'm just hoping for solid bench players. I'm giving this FO another 2 years till 2026 to draft the talent, as I still don't fully believe in the RJ, Scottie, and IQ core. If we are still in the same position, with no identity, piss poor defense, and embarrassing blow outs, one if not both need to go.

[Duffman100]

This year, if we lose our pick, I'm just hoping for solid bench players. I'm giving this FO another 2 years till 2026 to draft the talent, as I still don't fully believe in the RJ, Scottie, and IQ core. If we are still in the same position, with no identity, piss poor defense, and embarrassing blow outs, one if not both need to go.

Yup I'm in this boat as well.

[Zeno]

We didn't really 'blow it up' in the sense that's being referred to above. We made a trade to acquire a superstar.

People wanted Demar gone for a bag of chips. Masai got Kawhi instead.

There’s no question Masai was elite back then but wtf has happened since?

He has been chasing in his own way. Because his moves have been encumbered by attempts to hit homeruns, he’s been striking out a lot. The whole vision 6’9 thing limited the talent pool they were swimming in looking for talent and he made questionable trades where part of the value was maintaining salary for a future big trades. A lot of assets were used to be ready if the next big Kawhi type trade materialized or to be ready if Giannis hit free agency. He was not letting the game come to him. Basically forcing shots.

[RoteSchroder]

You can’t agree with holding onto OG for a great trade, but disagree with holding onto Siakam for a subpar trade, because the same strategy was used for both.

You either agree with that strategy or you don’t.

It made sense to hold on to OG because OG is younger and would have been very compatible with Scottie going forward if they decided to go that direction. After 2021-22 it made no sense to hold on to Pascal because he was very clearly going to conflict with Scottie, you can't start two poor 3 point shooting PFs on the same team and expect to be good.

Trading OG only made sense once the Knicks offered what they offered, even then there's still an argument we should have held on to him because it's going to be extremely difficult to replace him the league isn't filled with All-Team defence wings that shoot 40% from 3.

Other way around.

OG wanted out. It made more sense to trade him earlier and not risk a terrible trade or him leaving.

Siakam didn’t even want to leave, we didn’t even need to trade him. If a trade didn’t get done, we could have just given him the contract he wanted.

[RoteSchroder]

You can’t agree with holding onto OG for a great trade, but disagree with holding onto Siakam for a subpar trade, because the same strategy was used for both.

You either agree with that strategy or you don’t.

You can hold out for one player but let go for the other. For pascal it was obvious there was positional overlap with barnes so it made sense to trade one or the other

And OG was a much bigger flight risk than Siakam. So they should have traded OG earlier and waited for a better trade with Siakam.

Most fans wanted picks in the first place. For Siakam they wanted Bufkin, AJ Griffin and 3 mid-low picks. For OG they wanted 3 mid-low picks or Shaedon Sharpe. People were mad we didn’t make the Sharpe trade.

[C_Money]

People wanted Demar gone for a bag of chips. Masai got Kawhi instead.

There’s no question Masai was elite back then but wtf has happened since?

He has been chasing in his own way. Because his moves have been encumbered by attempts to hit homeruns, he’s been striking out a lot. The whole vision 6’9 thing limited the talent pool they were swimming in looking for talent and he made questionable trades where part of the value was maintaining salary for a future big trades. A lot of assets were used to be ready if the next big Kawhi type trade materialized or to be ready if Giannis hit free agency. He was not letting the game come to him. Basically forcing shots.

Totally agree about vision 6’9. I think it was his biggest downfall and I’m still not quite sure what the hell he was thinking.

[2019nbachamps]

Our FO has been poor the past 4-5 years. However at least they’ve finally picked a direction which will make it easier to build the team moving forward. We have a core of 3 young players, a good prospect in Dick, draft picks, cap flexibility, and a few vets on short term contracts. We’re not in an ideal situation but we have a decent base to build off of. I just hope our FO stays the course and rebuilds brick by brick. I don’t want to see another Poeltl win-now trade that sets us back. We are at least 2 more seasons away from being a 45+ win team.

[Zeno]

There’s no question Masai was elite back then but wtf has happened since?

He has been chasing in his own way. Because his moves have been encumbered by attempts to hit homeruns, he’s been striking out a lot. The whole vision 6’9 thing limited the talent pool they were swimming in looking for talent and he made questionable trades where part of the value was maintaining salary for a future big trades. A lot of assets were used to be ready if the next big Kawhi type trade materialized or to be ready if Giannis hit free agency. He was not letting the game come to him. Basically forcing shots.

Totally agree about vision 6’9. I think it was his biggest downfall and I’m still not quite sure what the hell he was thinking.

If you read that Kevin O’Connor piece on his interview with Booth from Nuggets, he mentioned basically that all championship teams fit a certain size profile. I think this was the basic thinking behind it. So I think they were hoping to hit on ‘Championship pieces’ with their development rather than just basketball players. A way less likely path to succeed on. He wanted a roster that even if not at the top, would be transformed by one move if it became available. It wasn’t actually unsuccessful in theory, but it is most definitely not the type of thing that succeeds without complete buy-in. The team itself quit on the idea. But I can’t help but wonder if the officiating of post all-star was present at the beginning of last year, would that team have really clicked.

[Chandan]

People wanted Demar gone for a bag of chips. Masai got Kawhi instead.

There’s no question Masai was elite back then but wtf has happened since?

He has been chasing in his own way. Because his moves have been encumbered by attempts to hit homeruns, he’s been striking out a lot. The whole vision 6’9 thing limited the talent pool they were swimming in looking for talent and he made questionable trades where part of the value was maintaining salary for a future big trades. A lot of assets were used to be ready if the next big Kawhi type trade materialized or to be ready if Giannis hit free agency. He was not letting the game come to him. Basically forcing shots.

masai has never actually build a contender prior to that one year with Kawhi. He had a long chain of a good to elite team after taking over for BC, but a lot of it was Lowry carrying the team and willing us to win. It's not a coincidence the whole thing fell apart after Lowry was traded for Tragic. But even with Lowry we weren't a serious contender except that one year when the stars aligned.
For all his flaws I dont really blamed Masai for vision 6'9. He needed a vision, a hill to die on so to speak. Without a unique vision he's just a run of the mill GM rolling the dice every year.

[2019nbachamps]

The two biggest things you can criticize them for is they should've transitioned to a rebuild sooner and they haven't done as well around the edges of the roster, finding those valuable depth guys.

For the most part, when it's come to the big moves, like the lottery picks (Barnes/Dick), the OG/Siakam combined return, they've done well. I'm still pretty confident regarding their ability to find talent, especially in the draft.

Nurse, FVV, Poeltl were all big moves and IMO we went 0/3 on them.

I strongly disagree we got the big moves right. I’d argue deciding to double down on the flawed roster at the 2023 trade deadline was a big move that didn’t pan out (and reiterates the point you made about us perhaps not rebuilding sooner).

The true cost of delaying the rebuild:
-frustrating Nurse and resulting in the relationship breaking down
-losing FVV for nothing
-GTJ being in limbo and might be lost for nothing (TBD)
-lower draft pick in 2023
-losing control of a FRP for Poeltl and now having a C that doesn’t fit our timeline nor really contribute to winning (not Poeltl’s fault but a fair statement IMO)
-likely getting a weaker return for Siakam

The sky isn’t falling but we shot ourselves in the foot.