PG: 2nd longest losing streak in Raptors Hx

[earth007]

The Logan Paul thing shows just how out of touch the front office have become.

Yet some folks here would do all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend them. In their eyes, they can't do any wrong.

[MiamiSPX]

My point was more about how much longer do we keep giving them, to fail at the same thing over and over? We dont have a whole lot in the way of assets we can trade to bolster the bench, and they have shown that the knack for finding hidden talent has been missing for many years.

We have the assets to bolster the bench through draft picks? If you consider Quickley, Dick, Barrett, Barnes, Poeltl as a starting 5.

Trent (maybe trade him or resign him)
Brown (maybe trade him or keep his option)
Kelly O
Ochai Agbaji

2024 17th pick
2024 31st pick
Either a top 6 pick this year or a pick in 2025.
Two 1sts in 2026

5 1sts of the next 3 years.

I think we have enough assets to start building a bench (where we didn't have the assets to do that post championship).

Yep, exactly. And there are still other possibilities as well, including not picking up Brown's option and letting Trent go to leave them with enough cap space to pursue a quality FA like Malik Monk or Grayson Allen. Especially if they also manage to off-load Boucher's contract somewhere. Or doing the same and using that cap space to take back a contract a team needs to off-load because of the new tax apron rules.

There's a lot of work to do, for sure, but the FO has given themselves more flexibility than any off-season in recent memory. They've made some mistakes recently, of course, but they've also never been in a situation like the one they'll have this summer, so we can't know how they'll deal with it.

It'll be very interesting to see how the team looks in October. We should all save the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the roster and bench until then at least.

I've hated a lot of their moves, or non-moves, over the last couple of years but I can't say that I am not excited about the flexibility they now have. I thought there was a very real chance we go into next season with OG and Siakam making 90M combined, which would have been disastrous IMO.

Like you said, there is a lot of work to do, namely finding that 5th starter. Dick won't be starting next season, nor should he be. He's not there yet and one summer of a bulking up isn't going to make him adept enough to handle other teams' starters defensively.

So many variations of things they can do, so exciting times are ahead.

[Boardbreaker]

The Logan Paul thing shows just how out of touch the front office have become.

Do you think the front office is sitting in a room debating whether or not to get sponsored by logan paul and prime? Lmao MLSE handles sponsorship dollars. Prime also sponsors the lakers, dodgers, arsenel, barcelona etc

Golden boy Austen Matthews is sponsored by them, maybe the leafs should dump him.

[OakleyDokely]

We are at the point of the season where we're analyzing sponsors now.

[Scase]

As I said in another post in this thread, I don't think there's anything wrong with having some skepticism about this FO. Their talent ID has been really questionable and I don't know who/what to attribute that to exactly because they're so opaque about everything they do.

They did the work to give themselves flexibility this offseason to radically reshape large portions of this team, but selling off is always the easy part. The follow-through is what matters. Can they successfully do it? Well, that's where everyone will feel differently I suppose. But if you don't think so that's fine, but none of us can really do anything about it either way. So repeating it a billion times from now until whenever is also a bit tiresome.

My point was more about how much longer do we keep giving them, to fail at the same thing over and over? We dont have a whole lot in the way of assets we can trade to bolster the bench, and they have shown that the knack for finding hidden talent has been missing for many years.

We have the assets to bolster the bench through draft picks? If you consider Quickley, Dick, Barrett, Barnes, Poeltl as a starting 5.

Trent (maybe trade him or resign him)
Brown (maybe trade him or keep his option)
Kelly O
Ochai Agbaji

2024 17th pick
2024 31st pick
Either a top 6 pick this year or a pick in 2025.
Two 1sts in 2026

5 1sts of the next 3 years.

I think we have enough assets to start building a bench (where we didn't have the assets to do that post championship).

I think it's WAY too early to bank on that starting 5 as anything to build around. We draft a couple players this year and next, they start producing in about 2-3 years? Is that the goal? Trent and Brown are quite low value, not worth keeping and unlikely to result in anything valuable in a trade.

I don't see it. Our bench at best consists of an old C that will be out of the league in a few years, a 24 year old wing that isn't looking particularly promising, and 2 expirings that we likely should not keep and don't hold much value. That means at best we need to shore up about 4 empty roster spots with potentially 2 mediocre-bad picks, and an unlikely top 6.

I'm not enthused with this outcome to say the least. If we end up trading Jak in the summer, then my mindset will shift drastically and I would be in full agreement with you.

[Duffman100]

My point was more about how much longer do we keep giving them, to fail at the same thing over and over? We dont have a whole lot in the way of assets we can trade to bolster the bench, and they have shown that the knack for finding hidden talent has been missing for many years.

We have the assets to bolster the bench through draft picks? If you consider Quickley, Dick, Barrett, Barnes, Poeltl as a starting 5.

Trent (maybe trade him or resign him)
Brown (maybe trade him or keep his option)
Kelly O
Ochai Agbaji

2024 17th pick
2024 31st pick
Either a top 6 pick this year or a pick in 2025.
Two 1sts in 2026

5 1sts of the next 3 years.

I think we have enough assets to start building a bench (where we didn't have the assets to do that post championship).

I think it's WAY too early to bank on that starting 5 as anything to build around. We draft a couple players this year and next, they start producing in about 2-3 years? Is that the goal? Trent and Brown are quite low value, not worth keeping and unlikely to result in anything valuable in a trade.

I don't see it. Our bench at best consists of An old C that will be out of the league in a few years, a 24 year old wing that isn't looking particularly promising, and 2 expirings that we likely should not keep and don't hold much value. That means at best we need to shore up about 4 empty roster spots with potentially 2 mediocre-bad picks, and an unlikely top 6.

I'm not enthused with this outcome to say the least. If we end up trading Jak in the summer, then my mindset will shift drastically and I would be in full agreement with you.

Trading Yak will open up another major hole in the roster. How does that help?

[OakleyDokely]

I hope the plan is to fill the bench with young, cheap players on rookie contracts. Raps have a lot of picks coming over the next 3 drafts.

[Scase]

We have the assets to bolster the bench through draft picks? If you consider Quickley, Dick, Barrett, Barnes, Poeltl as a starting 5.

Trent (maybe trade him or resign him)
Brown (maybe trade him or keep his option)
Kelly O
Ochai Agbaji

2024 17th pick
2024 31st pick
Either a top 6 pick this year or a pick in 2025.
Two 1sts in 2026

5 1sts of the next 3 years.

I think we have enough assets to start building a bench (where we didn't have the assets to do that post championship).

I think it's WAY too early to bank on that starting 5 as anything to build around. We draft a couple players this year and next, they start producing in about 2-3 years? Is that the goal? Trent and Brown are quite low value, not worth keeping and unlikely to result in anything valuable in a trade.

I don't see it. Our bench at best consists of An old C that will be out of the league in a few years, a 24 year old wing that isn't looking particularly promising, and 2 expirings that we likely should not keep and don't hold much value. That means at best we need to shore up about 4 empty roster spots with potentially 2 mediocre-bad picks, and an unlikely top 6.

I'm not enthused with this outcome to say the least. If we end up trading Jak in the summer, then my mindset will shift drastically and I would be in full agreement with you.

Trading Yak will open up another major hole in the roster. How does that help?

Because it changes the timeline, and will help shore up roster issues with either younger players or picks, ideally.

Jak is gonna be 29 at the start of next season, 4/5/6/9 years older than our anticipated core of BBQD, while I don't like how big the age gap is, I don't think it is earth-shattering. But I think that if he were to be traded, that opens up to another year of bottoming out in a much better draft class, which long term would be the best course of action.

Jak has value now, I think it's prudent to try and recoup some that we lost. He also made it pretty known that he didn't want to be part of a rebuild, but we traded for him anyways, and then traded Siakam. I just don't see the fit.

I would rather us move him, draft a C (or trade for a younger one), and start from there. It'll take us longer to get back to winning, but I think it will be more sustainable and raise the ceiling of the team in the end.

[Duffman100]

I think it's WAY too early to bank on that starting 5 as anything to build around. We draft a couple players this year and next, they start producing in about 2-3 years? Is that the goal? Trent and Brown are quite low value, not worth keeping and unlikely to result in anything valuable in a trade.

I don't see it. Our bench at best consists of An old C that will be out of the league in a few years, a 24 year old wing that isn't looking particularly promising, and 2 expirings that we likely should not keep and don't hold much value. That means at best we need to shore up about 4 empty roster spots with potentially 2 mediocre-bad picks, and an unlikely top 6.

I'm not enthused with this outcome to say the least. If we end up trading Jak in the summer, then my mindset will shift drastically and I would be in full agreement with you.

Trading Yak will open up another major hole in the roster. How does that help?

He also made it pretty known that he didn't want to be part of a rebuild, but we traded for him anyways, and then traded Siakam. I just don't see the fit.

Did he? I don't remember that.

[mrdressup]

Box score indicates we are doing what is necessary to help our chances in the short term. It is all one can do given the current circumstances. Don't take it personally.

[TorontoBarneys]

Yak could be traded depending on what happens this summer. Edey could feasibly be a decent replacement.

[Duffman100]

Yak could be traded depending on what happens this summer. Edey could feasibly be a decent replacement.

My issue is that we went how long without a legit center? And now we're going down that road again?

I suppose if we decide to fully tank next year, I guess.

[Scase]

Trading Yak will open up another major hole in the roster. How does that help?

He also made it pretty known that he didn't want to be part of a rebuild, but we traded for him anyways, and then traded Siakam. I just don't see the fit.

Did he? I don't remember that.

Yeah he mentioned it back in Jan after the trade, not before, memory was a bit off.

“The only thing that was important to me is that I was on a team that could play competitive basketball. As long as it's not like a team that’s really actively trying to tank is the thing for me,” Poeltl said following practice Thursday. “I want to play on a team that's trying to win every night.

It's one of the main reasons people saw his acquisition as a sign we were going all in, and now it definitely doesn't mesh with what we've pivoted to.

[Duffman100]

He also made it pretty known that he didn't want to be part of a rebuild, but we traded for him anyways, and then traded Siakam. I just don't see the fit.

Did he? I don't remember that.

Yeah he mentioned it back in Jan after the trade, not before, memory was a bit off.

“The only thing that was important to me is that I was on a team that could play competitive basketball. As long as it's not like a team that’s really actively trying to tank is the thing for me,” Poeltl said following practice Thursday. “I want to play on a team that's trying to win every night.

It's one of the main reasons people saw his acquisition as a sign we were going all in, and now it definitely doesn't mesh with what we've pivoted to.

Ah interesting.

[TravisScott55]

Locked into 6th worst record

[DelAbbot]

The Logan Paul thing shows just how out of touch the front office have become.

Yet some folks here would do all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend them. In their eyes, they can't do any wrong.

It's understandable. For some the championship brought them so much joy that they have associated their own positive identity with it and the FO that got us there. Any attack on the FO is perceived as an attack on their positive identity.

[ishoy123]

The Logan Paul thing shows just how out of touch the front office have become.

Yet some folks here would do all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend them. In their eyes, they can't do any wrong.

More that people go out of their ways to hate the Front Office. It's a promotion for a sports drink. Get over it.

[Duffman100]

The Logan Paul thing shows just how out of touch the front office have become.

Yet some folks here would do all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend them. In their eyes, they can't do any wrong.

It's understandable. For some the championship brought them so much joy that they have associated their own positive identity with it and the FO that got us there. Any attack on the FO is perceived as an attack on their positive identity.

For me that's really simplifying it.

It's not that the championship 'brought me joy" (which of course it did, it was amazing). It's that it showed me that they're a swing for the fences, make tough decisions, proven winner FO. And that FO cycles are different than coaching cycles, you give them longer ones. Especially proven winners.

I look at each FO cycle as 5-8 years. Personally, that's how I view it.

18-19 was the title
19-20 was the defend of that title
----
20-21 Tampa tank
21-22 48 wins and ROY
22-23 Disappointing bad year
23-24 Tear down year

So the way I see it, we're in year 3 or 4 of that 5-8 year cycle. Depending if the tank part of the season is part of that timeline.

If we're hitting year 5-6 and we're still very meh, yeah.. I'm on board with starting to talk about alternatives.

[DelAbbot]

Look, I was fighting with GWS about me being part of team Masai as recently as just before the Thad trade. I turned on them after the Poeltl deal and non-trade of FVV.

[islandboy53]

They have had to do that for 3 years and still haven't.

As I said in another post in this thread, I don't think there's anything wrong with having some skepticism about this FO. Their talent ID has been really questionable and I don't know who/what to attribute that to exactly because they're so opaque about everything they do.

They did the work to give themselves flexibility this offseason to radically reshape large portions of this team, but selling off is always the easy part. The follow-through is what matters. Can they successfully do it? Well, that's where everyone will feel differently I suppose. But if you don't think so that's fine, but none of us can really do anything about it either way. So repeating it a billion times from now until whenever is also a bit tiresome.

The front office definitely needs a look. Lots pf questionable personnel decisions and the choice they made for coach is sickening. It may be time for a front office shuffle but quality execs are hard to find

There's a lot of sharp basketball minds on this forum. No doubt ownership have a complete list of realgm possibilities for that inevitable day when they clean out the front office.