WOJ: Raps get Olynyk & Agbaji for 24' 1st Rd Pick, Otto Porter, Kira Lewis

[Chandan]

They're trying to teach a very specific offensive system to a group of young players and build good habits and a foundation. Kelly's skillset is hard to find in a big, yet is a seamless fit for the offense.

That's certainly an another way to say we want a stretch big that he's the only one we can get our hands on. KO isn't some special player (isn't and never was) and certainly not a seamless fit for anything in this league.

If it's as you said KO skill set is hard to find in a big, then why exactly would you want your players to form habits that comes from playing with this rare breed of player? What if they can't find another Kelly? It's like you train Bruce Brown to only play effectively alongside Jokic, then you take away Jokic, and you are left with a raptors Bruce Brown.

Yes we brought in Kelly to be a stretch big to pair with barnes to see how he would look with a stretch big, because in theory the lanes should be open up more.
So we found one in the midterm until we are able to find one long term.
Stretch bigs aren't really rare, but they're not available regularly either, and if one cost you OPJ & a late late first in return with a former lottery pick, then you take that time & time again...

If you think Kelly is supposed to be "Cherry on Top" well it's still okay or good to get all or some of your ingredients before your finish baking. It's hard to envision how the cake will look with a cherry without actually having the cherry sometimes...

i think at the end of the day Kelly is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. if he were maybe 5 years younger he could be a improved, steadier version of Boucher. But as it stand he's given too much expectations to be that type of unique player you are suggesting. Every time I watch him he looks like he wants to be some sort of hub and that's too much for him to handle (not only at this stage, but for any stage of his career) Maybe it's a canadian playing in his hometown thing.

[YogurtProducer]

That's certainly an another way to say we want a stretch big that he's the only one we can get our hands on. KO isn't some special player (isn't and never was) and certainly not a seamless fit for anything in this league.

If it's as you said KO skill set is hard to find in a big, then why exactly would you want your players to form habits that comes from playing with this rare breed of player? What if they can't find another Kelly? It's like you train Bruce Brown to only play effectively alongside Jokic, then you take away Jokic, and you are left with a raptors Bruce Brown.

Yes we brought in Kelly to be a stretch big to pair with barnes to see how he would look with a stretch big, because in theory the lanes should be open up more.
So we found one in the midterm until we are able to find one long term.
Stretch bigs aren't really rare, but they're not available regularly either, and if one cost you OPJ & a late late first in return with a former lottery pick, then you take that time & time again...

If you think Kelly is supposed to be "Cherry on Top" well it's still okay or good to get all or some of your ingredients before your finish baking. It's hard to envision how the cake will look with a cherry without actually having the cherry sometimes...

i think at the end of the day Kelly is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. if he were maybe 5 years younger he could be a improved, steadier version of Boucher. But as it stand he's given too much expectations to be that type of unique player you are suggesting. Every time I watch him he looks like he wants to be some sort of hub and that's too much for him to handle (not only at this stage, but for any stage of his career) Maybe it's a canadian playing in his hometown thing.

It might be because he’s actually one of the better playmaking bigs in the NBA.

[Tripod]

KO had great per 36 stats in Utah. He fills a need and when we finally play with a fully healthy lineup next year, he will help win games.

He would have had other teams bidding on him and getting him was never guaranteed if he was a UFA. Trading away a late 1st to get a guaranteed rotational guy AND a recent #14 pick is a fantastic value trade.

Now the Raps need to draft another C and let that guy learn from Yak and KO.

[Scase]

KO had great per 36 stats in Utah. He fills a need and when we finally play with a fully healthy lineup next year, he will help win games.

He would have had other teams bidding on him and getting him was never guaranteed if he was a UFA. Trading away a late 1st to get a guaranteed rotational guy AND a recent #14 pick is a fantastic value trade.

Now the Raps need to draft another C and let that guy learn from Yak and KO.

Who cares though? Why are we making win now moves then for a team clearly in need, and seemingly, in the midst of a rebuild? It seems more prudent to have kept the pick, and tried to get him in FA. It's not like he's the difference between a playoff clinch and a bottom 5 record.

And the likelihood of a 33 year old Olynyk being part of a bidding war is pretty low lol.

[Tripod]

KO had great per 36 stats in Utah. He fills a need and when we finally play with a fully healthy lineup next year, he will help win games.

He would have had other teams bidding on him and getting him was never guaranteed if he was a UFA. Trading away a late 1st to get a guaranteed rotational guy AND a recent #14 pick is a fantastic value trade.

Now the Raps need to draft another C and let that guy learn from Yak and KO.

Who cares though? Why are we making win now moves then for a team clearly in need, and seemingly, in the midst of a rebuild? It seems more prudent to have kept the pick, and tried to get him in FA. It's not like he's the difference between a playoff clinch and a bottom 5 record.

And the likelihood of a 33 year old Olynyk being part of a bidding war is pretty low lol.

This isn't complicated.

Just because you are rebuilding, doesn't mean you stop trying to get better. They already have BBQ Dick and Yak going into next season. The first 4 guys playing with solid NBA players matters. You can't just have 15 guys 25 years old and younger.

And like it or not, ideally MLSE wants a playoff team for playoff money.

They gave up like a 15% chance at getting a NBA rotational guy for a guaranteed one AND a young guy who they think has upside. It's very simple.

They are building playable depth. Both fill roles they need. EZPZ.

[Scase]

KO had great per 36 stats in Utah. He fills a need and when we finally play with a fully healthy lineup next year, he will help win games.

He would have had other teams bidding on him and getting him was never guaranteed if he was a UFA. Trading away a late 1st to get a guaranteed rotational guy AND a recent #14 pick is a fantastic value trade.

Now the Raps need to draft another C and let that guy learn from Yak and KO.

Who cares though? Why are we making win now moves then for a team clearly in need, and seemingly, in the midst of a rebuild? It seems more prudent to have kept the pick, and tried to get him in FA. It's not like he's the difference between a playoff clinch and a bottom 5 record.

And the likelihood of a 33 year old Olynyk being part of a bidding war is pretty low lol.

This isn't complicated.

Just because you are rebuilding, doesn't mean you stop trying to get better. They already have BBQ Dick and Yak going into next season. The first 4 guys playing with solid NBA players matters. You can't just have 15 guys 25 years old and younger.

And like it or not, ideally MLSE wants a playoff team for playoff money.

They gave up like a 15% chance at getting a NBA rotational guy for a guaranteed one AND a young guy who they think has upside. It's very simple.

They are building playable depth. Both fill roles they need. EZPZ.

A 33 year old Olynyk is not playable depth on anything but a basement dweller team. You always want to try and get better, but it shouldn't be top of mind when you've intentionally been bad for like 2 months at most, that's just short sighted.

KO isn't the paperclip that eventually turns into a house, he's a stop gap. The only justification I can swallow for picking him up, is to see the team with a stretch 5, but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because it's "EZPZ" doesn't make them good moves. There was logic behind the Jak trade, it's still a bad trade.

[DreamTeam09]

Who cares though? Why are we making win now moves then for a team clearly in need, and seemingly, in the midst of a rebuild? It seems more prudent to have kept the pick, and tried to get him in FA. It's not like he's the difference between a playoff clinch and a bottom 5 record.

And the likelihood of a 33 year old Olynyk being part of a bidding war is pretty low lol.

This isn't complicated.

Just because you are rebuilding, doesn't mean you stop trying to get better. They already have BBQ Dick and Yak going into next season. The first 4 guys playing with solid NBA players matters. You can't just have 15 guys 25 years old and younger.

And like it or not, ideally MLSE wants a playoff team for playoff money.

They gave up like a 15% chance at getting a NBA rotational guy for a guaranteed one AND a young guy who they think has upside. It's very simple.

They are building playable depth. Both fill roles they need. EZPZ.

A 33 year old Olynyk is not playable depth on anything but a basement dweller team. You always want to try and get better, but it shouldn't be top of mind when you've intentionally been bad for like 2 months at most, that's just short sighted.

KO isn't the paperclip that eventually turns into a house, he's a stop gap. The only justification I can swallow for picking him up, is to see the team with a stretch 5, but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because it's "EZPZ" doesn't make them good moves. There was logic behind the Jak trade, it's still a bad trade.

So you know why he's here, you can even understand and "justify" the premise of why he's here and why we acquired him, so what exactly are you complaining about? The fact that he's a veteran? The fact that we used the 29th pick + OPJ to get back Kelly & Ochai(former 14th pick)

Again the things y'all complain about is like why bother, even when you come up with your own personal understanding & justification, it's still not enough?

[Scase]

This isn't complicated.

Just because you are rebuilding, doesn't mean you stop trying to get better. They already have BBQ Dick and Yak going into next season. The first 4 guys playing with solid NBA players matters. You can't just have 15 guys 25 years old and younger.

And like it or not, ideally MLSE wants a playoff team for playoff money.

They gave up like a 15% chance at getting a NBA rotational guy for a guaranteed one AND a young guy who they think has upside. It's very simple.

They are building playable depth. Both fill roles they need. EZPZ.

A 33 year old Olynyk is not playable depth on anything but a basement dweller team. You always want to try and get better, but it shouldn't be top of mind when you've intentionally been bad for like 2 months at most, that's just short sighted.

KO isn't the paperclip that eventually turns into a house, he's a stop gap. The only justification I can swallow for picking him up, is to see the team with a stretch 5, but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because it's "EZPZ" doesn't make them good moves. There was logic behind the Jak trade, it's still a bad trade.

So you know why he's here, you can even understand and "justify" the premise of why he's here and why we acquired him, so what exactly are you complaining about? The fact that he's a veteran? The fact that we used the 29th pick + OPJ to get back Kelly & Ochai(former 14th pick)

Again the things y'all complain about is like why bother, even when you come up with your own personal understanding & justification, it's still not enough?

Just because your reading capabilities are sub par, doesn't justify being ignorant.

I literally followed up your conveniently bolded part with :

but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because I understand the thought process behind something, doesn't mean I agree with it, or even it is the right thing. I understand the reason why we traded for Jak, still doesn't make it a good trade. A schizophrenic person killing someone is understandable due to mental health issues, it doesn't mean I'm fine with someone dying, or willing to excuse the murder.

How is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Your inability to even stomach the most tepid of criticism directed towards the FO is more baffling than anything.

[disoblige]

Imagine if we kept our picks two season in a row. Poeltl was practically free.

[DreamTeam09]

A 33 year old Olynyk is not playable depth on anything but a basement dweller team. You always want to try and get better, but it shouldn't be top of mind when you've intentionally been bad for like 2 months at most, that's just short sighted.

KO isn't the paperclip that eventually turns into a house, he's a stop gap. The only justification I can swallow for picking him up, is to see the team with a stretch 5, but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because it's "EZPZ" doesn't make them good moves. There was logic behind the Jak trade, it's still a bad trade.

So you know why he's here, you can even understand and "justify" the premise of why he's here and why we acquired him, so what exactly are you complaining about? The fact that he's a veteran? The fact that we used the 29th pick + OPJ to get back Kelly & Ochai(former 14th pick)

Again the things y'all complain about is like why bother, even when you come up with your own personal understanding & justification, it's still not enough?

Just because your reading capabilities are sub par, doesn't justify being ignorant.

I literally followed up your conveniently bolded part with :

but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because I understand the thought process behind something, doesn't mean I agree with it, or even it is the right thing. I understand the reason why we traded for Jak, still doesn't make it a good trade. A schizophrenic person killing someone is understandable due to mental health issues, it doesn't mean I'm fine with someone dying, or willing to excuse the murder.

How is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Your inability to even stomach the most tepid of criticism directed towards the FO is more baffling than anything.

Well comparing a trade to the death by a schizophrenic person is on you, again, you have an understanding of why the FO did the things they did. I'm not here to force you to understand or agree with what they did, but if you have a clear understanding & rationale of why they made those trades, complaining about something you understand and can rationalize is insane.

You can impart on whatever notion you think I have for our FO, nothing is perfect so ofcourse there are things that anyone can critize anything or anyone about, criticizing trades with a clear understanding on why they made that trade after the fact is asisnie to me tho...

Also why is giving up the 2nd last pick in a supposedly weak draft for a useful veteran big man & and useful POA defender worth 29 pages of bickering is beyond me.

Enjoy your day

[DreamTeam09]

Imagine if we kept our picks two season in a row. Poeltl was practically free.

How sway?

[Scase]

So you know why he's here, you can even understand and "justify" the premise of why he's here and why we acquired him, so what exactly are you complaining about? The fact that he's a veteran? The fact that we used the 29th pick + OPJ to get back Kelly & Ochai(former 14th pick)

Again the things y'all complain about is like why bother, even when you come up with your own personal understanding & justification, it's still not enough?

Just because your reading capabilities are sub par, doesn't justify being ignorant.

I literally followed up your conveniently bolded part with :

but even then, KO is a PF playing out of position. I like the dude, but he's not worth a pick, even if it is 29th OA.

Just because I understand the thought process behind something, doesn't mean I agree with it, or even it is the right thing. I understand the reason why we traded for Jak, still doesn't make it a good trade. A schizophrenic person killing someone is understandable due to mental health issues, it doesn't mean I'm fine with someone dying, or willing to excuse the murder.

How is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Your inability to even stomach the most tepid of criticism directed towards the FO is more baffling than anything.

Well comparing a trade to the death by a schizophrenic person is on you, again, you have an understanding of why the FO did the things they did. I'm not here to force you to understand or agree with what they did, but if you have a clear understanding & rationale of why they made those trades, complaining about something you understand and can rationalize is insane.

You can impart on whatever notion you think I have for our FO, nothing is perfect so ofcourse there are things that anyone can critize anything or anyone about, criticizing trades with a clear understanding on why they made that trade after the fact is asisnie to me tho...

Also why is giving up the 2nd last pick in a supposedly weak draft for a useful veteran big man & and useful POA defender worth 29 pages of bickering is beyond me.

Enjoy your day

Do you understand the concept of nuance? You know how not everything in the world is black/white?

I can understand many things and the perceived logic behind it without agreeing with it.

For instance, I can understand why you keep responding by just saying the same thing over and over again, and disagree with everything you say because you are incapable of seeing the FO as anything besides infallible.

Let me try and simplify it for you and keep it NBA related. I can understand the logic as to why the Thunder didn't want to pay Harden more money, but I don't agree with it, because it was short-sighted and ruined their team. I can understand why the Nets would bet the farm on KD/Harden/Kyrie, but I think it was too risky and stupid.

Do you see now, how someone can understand the rationale of someone's decisions, and not agree with it? Like take a second and read man, this is grade school level reasoning.

[DreamTeam09]

Just because your reading capabilities are sub par, doesn't justify being ignorant.

I literally followed up your conveniently bolded part with :



Just because I understand the thought process behind something, doesn't mean I agree with it, or even it is the right thing. I understand the reason why we traded for Jak, still doesn't make it a good trade. A schizophrenic person killing someone is understandable due to mental health issues, it doesn't mean I'm fine with someone dying, or willing to excuse the murder.

How is this such a difficult concept to grasp? Your inability to even stomach the most tepid of criticism directed towards the FO is more baffling than anything.

Well comparing a trade to the death by a schizophrenic person is on you, again, you have an understanding of why the FO did the things they did. I'm not here to force you to understand or agree with what they did, but if you have a clear understanding & rationale of why they made those trades, complaining about something you understand and can rationalize is insane.

You can impart on whatever notion you think I have for our FO, nothing is perfect so ofcourse there are things that anyone can critize anything or anyone about, criticizing trades with a clear understanding on why they made that trade after the fact is asisnie to me tho...

Also why is giving up the 2nd last pick in a supposedly weak draft for a useful veteran big man & and useful POA defender worth 29 pages of bickering is beyond me.

Enjoy your day

Do you understand the concept of nuance? You know how not everything in the world is black/white?

I can understand many things and the perceived logic behind it without agreeing with it.

For instance, I can understand why you keep responding by just saying the same thing over and over again, and disagree with everything you say because you are incapable of seeing the FO as anything besides infallible.

Let me try and simplify it for you and keep it NBA related. I can understand the logic as to why the Thunder didn't want to pay Harden more money, but I don't agree with it, because it was short-sighted and ruined their team. I can understand why the Nets would bet the farm on KD/Harden/Kyrie, but I think it was too risky and stupid.

Do you see now, how someone can understand the rationale of someone's decisions, and not agree with it? Like take a second and read man, this is grade school level reasoning.

Even on the around the margins move? Again we are talking about Kelly Olynyk, a useful player and another useful player for the 29th pick....
Malachi Flynn over Desmond Bane was a stupid move then and now, see I can blame the FO so there goes that narrative.
Still, my point remains the same, complaining about a transaction you understand and can rationalize, such a minor transaction like that is complaining for the sake of complaining imo. Is it because you're under the mantra of young teams shouldn't be trading picks at all? I feel like that were you may be missing the nuance Even in a draft where they could have up to 3 picks in the first 31 selections ? Even if they got a young player back for said late first

[VanWest82]

I got the angst in the moment with the Jak trade because it felt obvious it was wrong directionally even if it worked out, but killing trades like the KO/Ochai deal before we even know what we have or what we gave up seems very irrational.

Masai seems really high on Ochai. He was high on Precious too so there's no guarantee of success, but generally when Masai has liked a player it's worked out. KO is exactly the kind of player who should help our young guys develop. Gotta give it a chance.

[Scase]

I got the angst in the moment with the Jak trade because it felt obvious it was wrong directionally even if it worked out, but killing trades like the KO/Ochai deal before we even know what we have or what we gave up seems very irrational.

Masai seems really high on Ochai. He was high on Precious too so there's no guarantee of success, but generally when Masai has liked a player it's worked out. KO is exactly the kind of player who should help our young guys develop. Gotta give it a chance.

A lot said the same thing about the Jak trade.

Ainge is a very good GM, if he was willing to give Ochai away for basically nothing, I trust that as well.

[Chandan]

Imagine if we kept our picks two season in a row. Poeltl was practically free.

We signed Poeltl to two early vacation to cancun. But he needs a friend there since Siakam is gone, so we got him Kelly instead.

[Chandan]

I got the angst in the moment with the Jak trade because it felt obvious it was wrong directionally even if it worked out, but killing trades like the KO/Ochai deal before we even know what we have or what we gave up seems very irrational.

Masai seems really high on Ochai. He was high on Precious too so there's no guarantee of success, but generally when Masai has liked a player it's worked out. KO is exactly the kind of player who should help our young guys develop. Gotta give it a chance.

Nah when he really likes a player they tend to not work out.

Demarre, Bruno, McCaw, Stanley, Thadd, Otto, McDaniels, Precious, obv Jakob. The ones he has his eyes on for a long time, or ones he reached out of his way to grab, and ones he gave too many chances to haven't had very good turnouts.
He gets a few really good ones under the radar though. To be fair he did have his eyes on Giannas first who became a MVP top 5 guy, so that's pretty huge... but its for nothing since well, you know the story.