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I think we're all in a rush to proclaim a trade a win or loss as soon as it happens. You need to let things play out because a lot can still happen, especially when you're dealing with young players and picks.

Pointgod wrote:

Los_29 wrote:

Pointgod wrote:
There was talk of OG getting a Donovan Mitchell like return last season so yeah we could have gotten more for him if we traded him earlier but that doesn’t mean we didn’t get a good return for him despite the circumstances.

Don’t believe everything you hear. Thinking we could’ve got a Donovan Mitchell like return is absurd.

We know what was offered last year. It was worse than what was offered this year. Masai did exceptionally well.

We know what was offered but we also know more could have been negotiated but Masai wasn’t serious about trading him last year. Teams will never give their best offer off the bat. What we agreed to with the Knicks wasn’t their initial offer, but the point is we negotiated to a great deal. We could have gotten the same deal we got last season plus more if we were interested.

We can get whatever we want if we're just making things up to win arguments on the internet.

For those who have claimed, that Ochai is a bust because Ainge dumped him at the deadline, keep in mind Ainge also dumped NAW, and look what he is doing now.

It is hard to project every players trajectory.

OakleyDokely wrote:I think we're all in a rush to proclaim a trade a win or loss as soon as it happens. You need to let things play out because a lot can still happen, especially when you're dealing with young players and picks.

Why do that when you can proclaim the trade a failure, be wrong and just open up a fresh new account.

Duffman100 wrote:

OakleyDokely wrote:I think we're all in a rush to proclaim a trade a win or loss as soon as it happens. You need to let things play out because a lot can still happen, especially when you're dealing with young players and picks.

Why do that when you can proclaim the trade a failure, be wrong and just open up a fresh new account.

Maybe Ochai busts, KO struggles and UTAH grabs a serviceable player with the pick.

or

Ochai becomes a solid rotation player, KO contributes and nobody after pick 28 becomes a meaningful NBA player.

or

none of the "assets" involved in this minor deal become much of a factor long term.

All these scenario's are still possible.

OakleyDokely wrote:I think we're all in a rush to proclaim a trade a win or loss as soon as it happens. You need to let things play out because a lot can still happen, especially when you're dealing with young players and picks.

I have no doubt the trade may work out for us. The issue is more so getting fair market value back. Pascal is generally regarded as a top 30 player in the NBA. I'm at a loss of a recent example of a top 30 player being traded for such a weak return. It is what it is. At least we chose a direction and wont face the risk of paying him $45-50m a year if he begins to decline. I wish him all the best and I hope the FO proves us wrong and turns the ship around.

brownbobcat wrote:

Merit wrote:

brownbobcat wrote:OG was always going to get a very good return because of his age and fit - you can plug him into the starting lineup of all 30 teams in the NBA.

Oh please. This reads as petty. He won the OG trade because he definitely was going to anyway, and the only thing he could do was wait too long and screw up the Pascal trade. In other words, Masai can do nothing right.

Your bias is showing.

Huh? Quit projecting.

Masai did a good job with the OG trade.
OG was the more tradeable player.
Masai did not do a good job with the Siakam trade.

All of those things can be true.

Your clarification went a long way, thanks.

As for Pascal, I’m still waiting to hear back about the rumoured trades better than the Indiana one that didn’t happen.

I wanted those imaginary trades to happen just as much as any fan who wants this team to win. Heck, I proposed trades involving Dejounte and Pascal and defended their viability until the cows came home. To this day I wish they happened. However, the only rumor was connecting the two teams, not the specific players that were involved.

2019nbachamps wrote:

OakleyDokely wrote:I think we're all in a rush to proclaim a trade a win or loss as soon as it happens. You need to let things play out because a lot can still happen, especially when you're dealing with young players and picks.

I have no doubt the trade may work out for us. The issue is more so getting fair market value back. Pascal is generally regarded as a top 30 player in the NBA. I'm at a loss of a recent example of a top 30 player being traded for such a weak return. It is what it is. At least we chose a direction and wont face the risk of paying him $45-50m a year if he begins to decline. I wish him all the best and I hope the FO proves us wrong and turns the ship around.

I think the initial trade was meh. Then we got Ochai on a rookie scale and re-signed Kelly and we’re now in a position to make some noise. It’s getting a bit better in terms of return. Would I have liked a star player on a solid contract? Absolutely. Am I glad we have salary flexibility and picks? Also yes. And we agree on wanting what’s best for the Raps. That’s what makes us fans.

JB7 wrote:For those who have claimed, that Ochai is a bust because Ainge dumped him at the deadline, keep in mind Ainge also dumped NAW, and look what he is doing now.

It is hard to project every players trajectory.

Don’t know anyone claiming Ochai is a bust but the profile of a player doesn’t magically get better just because he’s on the Raptors.

Coming out of school the knock on Ochai was that he couldn’t create for himself, poor passer and he’s an older rookie so there’s a lower ceiling for development. To stick in this league, you have to be able to hit the 3 if you’re not a playmaker or offensive option. There are other older rookies that have had a tough time in the league like Davion Mitchell and Chris Duarte so not really out of the realm of possibility to see a limited upside based on what we’ve seen so far and his age.

JB7 wrote:For those who have claimed, that Ochai is a bust because Ainge dumped him at the deadline, keep in mind Ainge also dumped NAW, and look what he is doing now.

It is hard to project every players trajectory.

Both the Jazz and Blazers pretended like NAW was a complete throw away. They didn't even give him a chance.

We had a similar blunder with Eubanks. We even had an open roster spot when we waived him. IIRC, we signed Armoni Brooks into that spot. This was during our peak 6'8" switch everything + FVV era and I guess we needed a guard more than a big in that context, but man...

JB7 wrote:For those who have claimed, that Ochai is a bust because Ainge dumped him at the deadline, keep in mind Ainge also dumped NAW, and look what he is doing now.

It is hard to project every players trajectory.

I mean, he's not really playing any better/differently than when he was with NOP. His game is basically the same, albeit more efficiently, which can probably be attributed to being on a much much better team. If the same is to be expected from Ochai, then yeah, he's not exactly a high rotation player.

NAW hasn't like blown up to be some 15/10 player, he's as solid now as he was years ago, they just didn't value it. Ochai put up like 6/2/1 with Utah, if he just trends sideways I don't see how that was some major player given up too early.

ForeverTFC wrote:

JB7 wrote:For those who have claimed, that Ochai is a bust because Ainge dumped him at the deadline, keep in mind Ainge also dumped NAW, and look what he is doing now.

It is hard to project every players trajectory.

Both the Jazz and Blazers pretended like NAW was a complete throw away. They didn't even give him a chance.

We had a similar blunder with Eubanks. We even had an open roster spot when we waived him. IIRC, we signed Armoni Brooks into that spot. This was during our peak 6'8" switch everything + FVV era and I guess we needed a guard more than a big in that context, but man...

Eubanks is still pretty bad lol. Career neg BPM, -1.2 BPM this year. He's only getting PT on PHX because they were THAT desperate for a big body.

"Most overrated player in the league?"

Pascal Siakam

tecumseh18 wrote:

Read on Twitter

"Most overrated player in the league?"

Pascal Siakam

Siakam the last 3 games.

14/7/4 on 42/9/38 splits lmao

Scase wrote:

tecumseh18 wrote:

Read on Twitter

"Most overrated player in the league?"

Pascal Siakam

Siakam the last 3 games.

14/7/4 on 42/9/38 splits lmao

And Bucks still without the only guy on their team who can defend Pascal.

tecumseh18 wrote:

Scase wrote:

tecumseh18 wrote:

Read on Twitter

"Most overrated player in the league?"

Pascal Siakam

Siakam the last 3 games.

14/7/4 on 42/9/38 splits lmao

And Bucks still without the only guy on their team who can defend Pascal.

50mil/yr well spent.

brownbobcat wrote:

Merit wrote:

brownbobcat wrote:OG was always going to get a very good return because of his age and fit - you can plug him into the starting lineup of all 30 teams in the NBA.

Oh please. This reads as petty. He won the OG trade because he definitely was going to anyway, and the only thing he could do was wait too long and screw up the Pascal trade. In other words, Masai can do nothing right.

Your bias is showing.

Huh? Quit projecting.

Masai did a good job with the OG trade.
OG was the more tradeable player.
Masai did not do a good job with the Siakam trade.

All of those things can be true.

But it’s not true until we have a better idea of what was offered last year. I know one thing, I’d much rather have our current return than a deal centered around Kobe Bufkin and AJ Griffin. That was what was rumoured in the offseason. All that I’ve heard was that the offers for Pascal was just marginally better last year. And if that’s the case, can we really blame the FO for waiting? If we took that return last year, people would be claiming we should’ve waited. You said it, OG was a more tradeable asset. Pascal wasn’t. That is going to impact the return we get.

I figured we would get more for OG because he's younger and will be cheaper
I did not think we would've gotten the return we did get for him.
So if we overachieved on one trade and underachieved on the Pascal deal, between the both of them we gotten a fair return

OakleyDokely wrote:I think we're all in a rush to proclaim a trade a win or loss as soon as it happens. You need to let things play out because a lot can still happen, especially when you're dealing with young players and picks.

If the Raptors had traded Siakam for a 2nd rounder, you could say the same thing.....who knows, maybe that 2nd rounder will turn into Nikola Jokic? Arguments like this are a complete cop out.

Future picks have inherent expected value. You can use 20-30 years of draft history to ascertain the approximate value of mid to late 1st rounders.

So now we got people cheering against Siakam just to make themselves feel better about the trade?

Unless Masai pays your salary, shame on you considering the story Siakam has had with this franchise from nothing to a massive part of our championship.