Raptors Shopping Brown [Source]

[brownbobcat]

both are expiring contracts, why would the Bulls do this?
Is bruce brown much of an upgrade on the court? not really. I guess if they believe he's not going to play and think the draft is just that weak that moving down 8 spots doesn't matter.

What? I'm not a huge fan of Brown, but he's a huge upgrade vs someone who can't even make it on the court.

Would you drop from 19 to 27 to swap Koloko for Spencer Dinwiddie? That's what you're advocating for.

You're conflating 2 slightly different things: whether the trade is fair vs. whether the trade makes sense for Chicago.

If I were Chicago, I'd want to focus on rebuilding so it probably doesn't make sense to trade down. Having said that, it's suppose to be a pretty weak draft as you say and Bruce Brown is only 27, so there's some argument there that he will remain a useful asset for another 3-4 years at least. He's unquestionably a better asset than Lonzo.

[Scase]

They're looking to move on him simply because they're so stacked with talent and can't afford everyone. It's a position the Knicks were in with Quickley and RJ, which is why we got them for OG.

OKC will also be in that position very soon. If we stop trading away 1st Rounders, I hope we can get there one day too lol.

I mean it made more sense for the Knicks as they had players better than RJ, but who do the Pels actually have that is a better player than him, Zion?

Of course they think Zion is better whether it's foolish or not... it's not our problem and we should look to take advantage of delusional teams like the Spurs have been taking advantage of us the past few years lol.

Murphy is the reason they'd be trading Ingram because he's up for an extension this offseason. They will probably choose him since he's cheaper and has tons of potential.

I don't think us picking up another Siakam-esque player who is a UFA after next year, and is looking at a similar contract that we were unwilling to give to Siakam himself, as taking advantage of them. I see this more like us trading away Siakam, cause giving him that contract would be stupid as all hell, same reason they want to move him. Ingram is basically an injury prone, slightly more efficient Siakam, that is 3 years younger.

We would be the pacers in this scenario, hard pass on that.

[DonDoolie]

Brown + boucher + #19 for wiggIns and moody.

GS needs to pay us with draft picks to take that Wiggins contract.

Wiggins isnt on a bad contract

Imagine if og just stuck to his role as an elite 3 and d poa wing and never got injured.

Thats wiggins.

Hes a premier elite 3 and d wing that just entered his prime.

Watch the suitors line up to buy low on him.

you gotta be trolling

[Merit]

You're definitely onto something there. I think the Lakers would love to get off the term remaining on the deals of Rui, Vincent and Vanderbilt.

IMO it'd have to be the 26 or 27 pick, gotta bank on the retirement/decline of lebron. Next year they would most likely be a play in/low playoff seed.

Earliest they could probably trade is ‘29 (or ‘24 after the draft). NOP will probably defer the pick LA owes them to ‘25. Lakers owe a top-4 protected pick to UTA in ‘27. That eliminates 25, 26, 27 and 28 as picks the Lakers can trade. I doubt they include picks any further out because that kills any of their aspirations to get a high level player.

If it’s going to be the Lakers is seems like it would have to be their ‘24 1st (17th overall). Is the 17th worth is to take on 2 years of Rui? I don’t know. I’m not a huge fan.

I'd do it. Rui is young enough and we have enough of a need at forward to do it. Worst case we can flip his contract for a second next year. If he gets minutes and shows us something, bonus.

I still feel the Wiggins trade is the best option, if it is in fact on the table.

[Tor_Raps]

I mean it made more sense for the Knicks as they had players better than RJ, but who do the Pels actually have that is a better player than him, Zion?

Of course they think Zion is better whether it's foolish or not... it's not our problem and we should look to take advantage of delusional teams like the Spurs have been taking advantage of us the past few years lol.

Murphy is the reason they'd be trading Ingram because he's up for an extension this offseason. They will probably choose him since he's cheaper and has tons of potential.

I don't think us picking up another Siakam-esque player who is a UFA after next year, and is looking at a similar contract that we were unwilling to give to Siakam himself, as taking advantage of them. I see this more like us trading away Siakam, cause giving him that contract would be stupid as all hell, same reason they want to move him. Ingram is basically an injury prone, slightly more efficient Siakam, that is 3 years younger.

We would be the pacers in this scenario, hard pass on that.

I would kill to be the Pacers right now. Whether it's Ingram or someone else, we need to identify some good buy low candidates. Masai needs to start being on the good end of trades again or else it's going to be a long ass rebuild.

[Merit]

GS needs to pay us with draft picks to take that Wiggins contract.

Wiggins isnt on a bad contract

Imagine if og just stuck to his role as an elite 3 and d poa wing and never got injured.

Thats wiggins.

Hes a premier elite 3 and d wing that just entered his prime.

Watch the suitors line up to buy low on him.

you gotta be trolling

Wiggins is legit defensively. He was given the mantle of being "the man" without doing anything to earn it. If all we thought he was going to be was OG, he'd be valued differently. As it stands, we're able to get him because of Golden State's cap situation, not because he isn't valuable to the team.

[Scase]

Of course they think Zion is better whether it's foolish or not... it's not our problem and we should look to take advantage of delusional teams like the Spurs have been taking advantage of us the past few years lol.

Murphy is the reason they'd be trading Ingram because he's up for an extension this offseason. They will probably choose him since he's cheaper and has tons of potential.

I don't think us picking up another Siakam-esque player who is a UFA after next year, and is looking at a similar contract that we were unwilling to give to Siakam himself, as taking advantage of them. I see this more like us trading away Siakam, cause giving him that contract would be stupid as all hell, same reason they want to move him. Ingram is basically an injury prone, slightly more efficient Siakam, that is 3 years younger.

We would be the pacers in this scenario, hard pass on that.

I would kill to be the Pacers right now. Whether it's Ingram or someone else, we need to identify some good buy low candidates. Masai needs to start being on the good end of trades again or else it's going to be a long ass rebuild.

But it's not buying low when a constantly injured player, that is a 2nd option is going to be commanding 50mil a year. Like I said, dude is Siakam 2.0, but with injury issues.

Pacers didn't buy low, they paid low for the right to overpay a player who is not providing performance commensurate to their cost. I mean like maybe I'd be open to it if the cost was dirt cheap, and it allowed us to flip RJ for something more needed. But, I don't see that as being realistic, and honestly I'm not super enthused paying a dude 50mil+ a year to miss 25% of the season every year. Not to mention, I don't see the acquisition as a long term solution for the team.

If it's just acquiring him outright and no further moves? God no, I'd rather us stick with what we've got for now, and that's saying something

[Merit]

Probably use him to move up the in draft, which makes sense why they kept him past the deadline.

Lonzo + #11 for Brown + #19 is something I've seen quite a lot of and I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Lonzo said he's 70% healthy so maaaaybe we get him to see him suit up next year. Would be a nice bonus if he does ever end up playing.

Feels like we're overpaying

My very rough math would say we are. What’s the cost of moving from 19 to 11? EV of draft picks says a pick in the mid 20’s. So let’s say (based on the math):

11 = 19 + 24

Lonzo is completely dead money ($21.3m) as far as I’m concerned. Brown isn’t worth his deal but he’s not dead money. Let’s say Brown is worth $15m, so overpaid by $8m.

21m - 8m = 13m

This is us basically paying $13m for the 24th pick in the draft, which is definitely not worth it. CHI would need to add to this deal to make it worthwhile for us.

What if we took a huge risk and went with a trade for LaVine? Boucher/Brown/McDaniels for LaVine and 11.

PG IQ/(Draft Pick)
SG Lavine/Gradey
SF RJ/(MLE - Derrick Jones Jr)
PF Scottie/Kelly
C Poeltl/(Draft pick)

[ontnut]

Feels like we're overpaying

My very rough math would say we are. What’s the cost of moving from 19 to 11? EV of draft picks says a pick in the mid 20’s. So let’s say (based on the math):

11 = 19 + 24

Lonzo is completely dead money ($21.3m) as far as I’m concerned. Brown isn’t worth his deal but he’s not dead money. Let’s say Brown is worth $15m, so overpaid by $8m.

21m - 8m = 13m

This is us basically paying $13m for the 24th pick in the draft, which is definitely not worth it. CHI would need to add to this deal to make it worthwhile for us.

What if we took a huge risk and went with a trade for LaVine? Boucher/Brown/McDaniels for LaVine and 11.

PG IQ/(Draft Pick)
SG Lavine/Gradey
SF RJ/(MLE - Derrick Jones Jr)
PF Scottie/Kelly
C Poeltl/(Draft pick)

The Bulls wanted picks for Lavine just this past deadline. They're not giving him up for peanuts, much less paying to get off him.

Also, I want no part of Lavine.

[SpezNc]

Feels like we're overpaying

My very rough math would say we are. What’s the cost of moving from 19 to 11? EV of draft picks says a pick in the mid 20’s. So let’s say (based on the math):

11 = 19 + 24

Lonzo is completely dead money ($21.3m) as far as I’m concerned. Brown isn’t worth his deal but he’s not dead money. Let’s say Brown is worth $15m, so overpaid by $8m.

21m - 8m = 13m

This is us basically paying $13m for the 24th pick in the draft, which is definitely not worth it. CHI would need to add to this deal to make it worthwhile for us.

What if we took a huge risk and went with a trade for LaVine? Boucher/Brown/McDaniels for LaVine and 11.

PG IQ/(Draft Pick)
SG Lavine/Gradey
SF RJ/(MLE - Derrick Jones Jr)
PF Scottie/Kelly
C Poeltl/(Draft pick)

I don’t see Chicago doing that

[KrazyP]

I think you are way off on this one. The market definitely smaller with teams that near second apron likely being out, but his value around lead isn't going to be dramatically less because of half a season of tanking ball.

I suspect he'll be dealt at draft night to a team like knicks or laker, pelicans. Teams that are win now but also like that he only a 1 year guy and expiring.

Pretty sure the knicks were the team offering up a first at deadline. I see no reason they won't offer a similar deal and now that we don't have our own pick, getting a late first for Brown this year isn't a bad idea

If Brown was making MLE level money or less, playoff teams might be interested. At $23mill, he's a tough sell for his on court production because contending teams generally dont want to be paying that kind of coin for average role players....thats the reason why the Nuggets let him go.

People keep mentioning the Knicks but I dont understand what specifically Brown would bring to the table that they arent already getting from the combination of Hart/Divincenzo/McBride. They'd be better served using their assets to get a forward or star level player. I guess they have had interest in him in the past so perhaps a Brown for Bogdanovic + 2nd rounder could make some sense.....i dont see them giving up a 1st.

Nuggets let him go because they could only pay him 7M/season. They desperately wanted to keep him but just couldn't.

Proving to be a 6th man for a championship roster will always be in people's heads so contenders will want him no doubt. Just have to match the price Masai is holding out for and we've all seen that story play out many times before.

At the asking price of $45mill for 2 seasons, the Nuggets were going to walk away regardless of whether they could offer him that or not. It was a Fred VanVleet situation where somebody offered to grossly overpay him.

[Merit]

My very rough math would say we are. What’s the cost of moving from 19 to 11? EV of draft picks says a pick in the mid 20’s. So let’s say (based on the math):

11 = 19 + 24

Lonzo is completely dead money ($21.3m) as far as I’m concerned. Brown isn’t worth his deal but he’s not dead money. Let’s say Brown is worth $15m, so overpaid by $8m.

21m - 8m = 13m

This is us basically paying $13m for the 24th pick in the draft, which is definitely not worth it. CHI would need to add to this deal to make it worthwhile for us.

What if we took a huge risk and went with a trade for LaVine? Boucher/Brown/McDaniels for LaVine and 11.

PG IQ/(Draft Pick)
SG Lavine/Gradey
SF RJ/(MLE - Derrick Jones Jr)
PF Scottie/Kelly
C Poeltl/(Draft pick)

The Bulls wanted picks for Lavine just this past deadline. They're not giving him up for peanuts, much less paying to get off him.

Also, I want no part of Lavine.

If I'm looking at the Bulls they have the chance to pivot properly and build around their youth. Zach Lavine and Demar are the old guard. Let them and Vuc move along. It should have read Boucher/Brown/McDaniels/31 for Lavine and 11. This would be similar to our moving down for Thad, for example.

[agkagk]

Wiggins isnt on a bad contract

Imagine if og just stuck to his role as an elite 3 and d poa wing and never got injured.

Thats wiggins.

Hes a premier elite 3 and d wing that just entered his prime.

Watch the suitors line up to buy low on him.

you gotta be trolling

Wiggins is legit defensively. He was given the mantle of being "the man" without doing anything to earn it. If all we thought he was going to be was OG, he'd be valued differently. As it stands, we're able to get him because of Golden State's cap situation, not because he isn't valuable to the team.

Yup its like the raps board made up a rumor about who wiggins is based on the first 2.5 months of the season and wont let it go.

His track record and 2024 stats tell the real story here.

[PhilBlackson]

I'm with any trade that only brings back an extra year (maybe 2 depending the quality of pick of course) on a contract as long as there's a decent draft pick whether that's a later lottery (8-12) this year or just a 1st in next year's.

[Potential]

I'd do a Bruce Brown and 2nd rd pick for Andre Jackson

Dew it Masai

EDIT: you exposed your burner when you edited your post from including the 2025 FRP

Lol I was trying to make a joke about trading our 2025 pick as a top 6 protected and bruce brown for some veteran player but edited it into a more serious post instead

[Pointgod]

Take out #31 and they have to give us the better of those '25 picks.

CJ, while still productive, is owed 64M over 2 years. That's a pretty big favour we are doing them. In fact, as I typed that out I just decided a '25 first is not enough to take that contract on lol. They need to give up more, like Dyson.

Our backcourt would also be very small.

Come on man be reasonable. CJ just put up 20,4,4 on .429% 3 point shooting. I had zero idea that his numbers were that good. In comparison RJ put up 22,6,4 as a Raptor on 55% FG percentage. CJ only has two years left and the fact that you believe that getting a pick for a productive player that’s an expiring contract the following season.

We don’t do the trade for CJ, you do it for the pick. I agree with you that our backcourt will be small but this isn’t a trade you do to win. If we’re trying to make moves to win, we’d be the ones giving up picks.

IMO I'd rather take back someone who is detrimental to the team, rather than helpful since I want us to be bad

We aren't looking to trade for genuinely productive players I think, but rather take on dead contracts for picks. I don't see any value in taking CJ for a pick, it locks up more salary than we had before, for picks that will likely be late teens/early twenties? That's not worth taking on a short term badish contract. We should be looking for genuinely bad contracts to maximize the returns, not mediocre returns for players that can technically contribute.

I get taking on bad contracts for picks but we’re pretty much at the mercy of the rest of the league. We’re better off leveraging our capspace to help teams with salary relief than trying to find a team who has a first to give, but also sees Brown as more than a role player they could get for the the MLE. Brown did us no favours with his play post trade.

[Scase]

Come on man be reasonable. CJ just put up 20,4,4 on .429% 3 point shooting. I had zero idea that his numbers were that good. In comparison RJ put up 22,6,4 as a Raptor on 55% FG percentage. CJ only has two years left and the fact that you believe that getting a pick for a productive player that’s an expiring contract the following season.

We don’t do the trade for CJ, you do it for the pick. I agree with you that our backcourt will be small but this isn’t a trade you do to win. If we’re trying to make moves to win, we’d be the ones giving up picks.

IMO I'd rather take back someone who is detrimental to the team, rather than helpful since I want us to be bad

We aren't looking to trade for genuinely productive players I think, but rather take on dead contracts for picks. I don't see any value in taking CJ for a pick, it locks up more salary than we had before, for picks that will likely be late teens/early twenties? That's not worth taking on a short term badish contract. We should be looking for genuinely bad contracts to maximize the returns, not mediocre returns for players that can technically contribute.

I get taking on bad contracts for picks but we’re pretty much at the mercy of the rest of the league. We’re better off leveraging our capspace to help teams with salary relief than trying to find a team who has a first to give, but also sees Brown as more than a role player they could get for the the MLE. Brown did us no favours with his play post trade.

I'm not married to picks, but would prefer them. I'm happy with some young prospects as well. I just want something/someone we can watch grow and get better etc. Outside of Scottie and to a lesser degree, Gradey. That's about it man. If I'm gonna watch a bad team, I at least want to be entertained lol

[elecblue]

After seeing Brown this season, does anyone here think he is worth 20+ M next year? I didn’t think so. We have to accept that the reason he had trade value at the trade deadline was in big part because of the team option. If we pick up that option, there is no trade value left on the actual 1 year 24M deal. I doubt anyone wants to pay him that money. In fact, I bet other teams would rather dump their bad contracts into our cap without taking any salary back. That’s why I think we wouldn’t pick up his option in the end. 24M of cap space is worth even more than a mid-first round pick. That might be enough to steal a good restricted FA, or absorb a bad contract while getting a first and a second.

[TGM]

The market for brown will be pretty decent.

There are enough teams in cap he’ll looking for upgrades. Picks or soem young player buried on their bench and will become a Available.

[Green Backpack]

After the way he played for us.. we aint getting much for him