Will Masai Tank 4 Flagg?

[Duffman100]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

[Harry Palmer]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

How would that not be better than what we’re getting as is?

[mdenny]

Yeah but you still have to give yourself that chance cause we are out of options anyways...We lost our draft pick to the Spurs so we lost a trade asset and also lost the ability to pick a player who could have been good for us this year....We are not signing any game changing players in free agency, IQ/Barrett/Barnes are not winning you many games without a deep supporting cast or the right players around them...

The roster as a whole is very bare bones with talent or high end NBA level talent...We will just not be good next year and even if we don't luck out and win the lottery next years draft is riddled with talent as long as we are in that top 5 range im fine...But obviously Ace/Flagg is the goal

Here is the disconnect tho:

We would not be adding that pick to our current core of players. We've adding that pick the core after they couldn't manage to win 25 games. Which means scotty is not the current scotty (we realize he is t nearly as good as we hoped) and some combination of RJ/IQ/dick are no longer as promising either.

In a vacuum...ppl think we add this pick to our current core. But our general valuation of our core would be diminished. So we lose value in the propsects we actually possess now in order to get another draft pick.

We can't tank next season without losing something (unless the tank is a product of injuries). And what we'd lose is the height of scotty's potential.

Thats a silly argument imo....Saying a bunch of young 20 year olds are not good in the future due to having a few really bad losing seasons with a team full of young developing players with no actually good vet players, Depth , Or a good coach is silly to expect them to be good so early...

I expect BBQ and Dick to all have decent seasons...But winning in the NBA is a hard thing to do....Its not as easy as it sounds alot has to fall into place for you to have success....

We are still a superstar + experience and a better Head coach away from being a legit contender...We are in a good position because all the guys we are building around are all around the same age...And imo the only thing we need now is a player on Barnes or a step above him in a draft prospect for us to have a Championship future like the OKC are building atm...

Obviously alot has to go right but imo we are a Ace/Flagg draft pick, Playoff head coach signing away from being a future dynasty..

That is why im hoping so bad for next season to be the worst it can be for us as long as we have a shot to draft Bailey/Flagg so we have hopefully a decade of winning to look foreward too

I don't think you understand the odds of your unique scenario is. What are the odds of us coming in dead last? Let 's say it's 15% (generous imo). Then the odds of getting a top 2 pick are 25%.

So .15 x .25 = .0375

So far the odds of getting one of those two players are 3.75%. (Or approx 1 in 30)

THEN you calculate the odds that the player you get flourishes into a top 15 nba player. Which is probably less than 25%

.0375 × .25 = less than 1%

Or less than a 1 in 100 chance.

This is why I suggest you reconsider BBQ dick development as the priority. This whole tank thing is a mug's game.

[will]

Scottish.
Cooper.

[Duffman100]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

How would that not be better than what we’re getting as is?

Because somehow we're still in a better spot than the Pistons. Despite them being years ahead of in the rebuild.

[Harry Palmer]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

How would that not be better than what we’re getting as is?

Because somehow we're still in a better spot than the Pistons. Despite them being years ahead of in the rebuild.

How are we in a better spot? Serious question. If the objective is the doldrums, maybe. But is it?

[Tor_Raps]

I cant see the front office intentionally going for a second losing season in a row.

This time, we'd like to tank for the Raptors instead of doing it for the Spurs. Pop and Wemby send their regards

[Basketball_Jones]

Tank doesn’t happen until injuries or players performing way below expectations. A Yak trade would accelerate the it but then you would expect to be getting back some good young players too unless some team is dumb enough to trade picks for him (Bobby/Masai).

[sidsid]

Regardless of what happened with our pick this year, the direction to go with was to move Jak for assets and play youth.

Now that's an absolute necessity to not put yourself in the mediocrity loop. Focus on development and pieces that fit around Barnes. That's just a natural recipe for tanking

[Duffman100]

How would that not be better than what we’re getting as is?

Because somehow we're still in a better spot than the Pistons. Despite them being years ahead of in the rebuild.

How are we in a better spot? Serious question. If the objective is the doldrums, maybe. But is it?

Scottie is way better than Cade.
Quickley and Barrett are better than anything else they have.
Thompson is intriguing but unless he can shoot he won't be able to impact. Dick has a more clear path to being an impact player.

I love Duren and think he's their best piece.

[mdenny]

Because somehow we're still in a better spot than the Pistons. Despite them being years ahead of in the rebuild.

How are we in a better spot? Serious question. If the objective is the doldrums, maybe. But is it?

Scottie is way better than Cade.
Quickley and Barrett are better than anything else they have.
Thompson is intriguing but unless he can shoot he won't be able to impact. Dick has a more clear path to being an impact player.

I love Duren and think he's their best piece.

Also, to point out the obvious.....we won a chip 5 years ago? Detroit was a non-playoff team.

[sidsid]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

I'd rather tank like the Spurs, personally. Trade Jak and lose a bunch of games over the last 2 years. Seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

[Duffman100]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

I'd rather tank like the Spurs, personally. Trade Jak and lose a bunch of games over the last 2 years. Seems to be working pretty well for them so far.

What's the difference between the Spurs and the pistons, hornets and wizards?

[Los_29]

Let's tank like the pistons and finish with the 5th pick again.

How would that not be better than what we’re getting as is?

It’s better but the Pistons are an atrocious basketball team and have been tanking for what seems like a decade. There is a great deal of luck involved in this stuff. If the lottery balls bounced another way the Spurs would be sitting on a Scoot/Keldon Johnson core.

[Tor_Raps]

Not sure why I gotta keep reminding people that team this fully healthy was the 7th worst team in the nba. Instead of losing by 30, we'll lose by 10.

Only way that changes is if Masai makes some good signings for once and/or good trades. The drafted players will probably be G League bound considering where we're drafting them.

[Rapsin6]

Will Masai tank for Flagg? As in will he make moves to purposely water down the talent or mandate fake injuries? If that’s what you mean, then I think no.

I think we are going to play straight up and still be bad though. Hard to say how bad until we know who’s on the team in October but it’s hard to see them being any better than they were this year, even with internal growth of our top 5. Which teams that were ahead of us are going to be worse?

[Clutch0z24]

Here is the disconnect tho:

We would not be adding that pick to our current core of players. We've adding that pick the core after they couldn't manage to win 25 games. Which means scotty is not the current scotty (we realize he is t nearly as good as we hoped) and some combination of RJ/IQ/dick are no longer as promising either.

In a vacuum...ppl think we add this pick to our current core. But our general valuation of our core would be diminished. So we lose value in the propsects we actually possess now in order to get another draft pick.

We can't tank next season without losing something (unless the tank is a product of injuries). And what we'd lose is the height of scotty's potential.

Thats a silly argument imo....Saying a bunch of young 20 year olds are not good in the future due to having a few really bad losing seasons with a team full of young developing players with no actually good vet players, Depth , Or a good coach is silly to expect them to be good so early...

I expect BBQ and Dick to all have decent seasons...But winning in the NBA is a hard thing to do....Its not as easy as it sounds alot has to fall into place for you to have success....

We are still a superstar + experience and a better Head coach away from being a legit contender...We are in a good position because all the guys we are building around are all around the same age...And imo the only thing we need now is a player on Barnes or a step above him in a draft prospect for us to have a Championship future like the OKC are building atm...

Obviously alot has to go right but imo we are a Ace/Flagg draft pick, Playoff head coach signing away from being a future dynasty..

That is why im hoping so bad for next season to be the worst it can be for us as long as we have a shot to draft Bailey/Flagg so we have hopefully a decade of winning to look foreward too

I don't think you understand the odds of your unique scenario is. What are the odds of us coming in dead last? Let 's say it's 15% (generous imo). Then the odds of getting a top 2 pick are 25%.

So .15 x .25 = .0375

So far the odds of getting one of those two players are 3.75%. (Or approx 1 in 30)

THEN you calculate the odds that the player you get flourishes into a top 15 nba player. Which is probably less than 25%

.0375 × .25 = less than 1%

Or less than a 1 in 100 chance.

This is why I suggest you reconsider BBQ dick development as the priority. This whole tank thing is a mug's game.

And what are the chances that we make the playoffs this year? The play in....Id give it a honest 5-10 percent chance...

You can bring down the draft all you want but its literally the only means to us getting talent into the program...Which is what we lack...Talent...We do not have a treasure chest of assets to be a big player in any trade for a star player that may demand out, And we are not a free agent destination for top superstars..

Every superstar/top player in the league comes from the draft.....We are only content with our future right now cause we have a (4th overall pick) in Scottie Barnes....If we did not have Barnes right now we would be one of the worst positioned franchises in the league...

Saying all that...Literally our only logical option is to play the draft and get a star to pair with Barnes that way....All the other options even if you say it 100 times is not going to work for us....If you say next year the team we have will some how become a Eastern Conference finalist without any logical ways of improving the team then your just wrong...

Draft is the only option atm and we need to take it now while we have Barnes here...

[wegotthabeet]

If we win 25 or less next year, whoever we draft...it's probably his team.

I don’t get this line of thinking at all. One does not preclude the other. OKC literally won less than 25 games two seasons ago. SGA just finished second in MVP voting. Is it no longer his team? Who did they draft who’s better? And there’s countless of other examples just like this.

First, we don't have Shae on the team. Maybe Barnes turns into that...but, that's not the direction if we're a sub 25W team again.

If we fail again, the best player on the team will be the guy we draft.

No. Not necessarily. I think Scottie has the potential to be a top 10 player in the league. Winning 25 games next year would not change my perception of his potential. He’s still young, the team is still young, but if they draft someone better than him that would be amazing. They’d have two young players with top 10 potential.

Scottie to me is half of a championship level core and they’re still looking for that other half/player.

[Chandan]

How would that not be better than what we’re getting as is?

Because somehow we're still in a better spot than the Pistons. Despite them being years ahead of in the rebuild.

How are we in a better spot? Serious question. If the objective is the doldrums, maybe. But is it?

Some people ripped on the Magic last year calling them a poverty franchise.

[Badonkadonk]

Bro it's about time, we entered the sweepstakes for a generational talent.

Flagg is gonna be special, but even the 'consolation' prizes in this draft have superstar potential.

Lay it out. What's your plan to 25 wins?

Trade Poeltl.
Start Kelly.
Play the kids.
Rest strategically.

I'd agree with you if the Raps didn't make the Knicks trade, and if Scottie didn't show such progress in year 3. Those guys, along with Gradey, are guaranteed heavy minutes.

If all 3 of those guys continue to improve, which should be basic expectations given their age, the team will be hard pressed to be lose as much as they did this year. If they trade Yak, I can guarantee they're just going to find another actual big man who can at least stay on the floor defensively. If it was painful for me to watch Scottie take turns guarding 5s and RJ lining up against 4s, it must've been 10x worse for Darko.

I definitely don't think they should make any win-now moves, I just think you're locked into playing a core set of guys in their early 20s a whole bunch of minutes, and they'll probably keep getting better. That's tough to overcome if the goal is to tank.

If people start getting injured, sure, exploit that again. I just think they'll need to do more than trade Yak away to put them on the same path as the other dregs.