Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason

[Merit]

Unless GSW is willing to add a FRP with very light protection (ie/ top 4), then I'm not wasting Brown's contract on eating Wiggins' contract. He simply uses up way too much cap space moving forward, we'll be capped out once IQ & Scottie get their extension so he's not at all worth that. Without a pick I would not even entertain it, that would be a HORRIBLE use of remaining cap space.

Personally I'd be reaching out to the Pels and see what it would require to get one of their wings (from least likely to most: Trey, BI or Jones). They simply can not afford to keep all of those guys and we must get another longer wing. Murphy is THE ideal fit that I'd use Brown + all the picks from the Siakam trade and heck I'd throw in another one (or two - light protection) to get him but have heard Griff loves him, with BI I'd offer the Siakam package (under the assumption he re-signs) and with Herb it's Brown + IND pick.

If not maybe SAC for Harrison Barnes + their 24'. They're gonna need the money to retain Keegan who basically is the same position as HB and no Harrison isn't a game changer but at least we'd have an actual SF on the roster lol. Of course the real piece there is the 13th pick where we can snag one of Sheppard or McCain as our future back up PG then it frees up the 19th to target another position.

I don't think the Pelicans are moving either TM3 or Herb. They'll move CJ and Ingram before they move TM3 & Herb if money is an issue. Their best lineups were with both on the floor.

Harrison Barnes is interesting from an offensive perspective (floor spacing), but he gives the Raps nothing on D, which you would hope is the benefit of adding Wiggins. But why would Sac need to free up money for Murray? His deal expires the same year as Barnes and Huerter's deals.

Yeah, Herb is on one of the best contracts in the NBA, which will look even better once people see how many All-Defensive Team votes he received (don't think he makes either team yet, but probably by next season).

I would trade Brown+ for Herb no problem.

[Merit]

Count me on the renounce Brown (unless there is an immediate trade in place. None of that stuff like, "oh, just re-sign FVV and we can trade him at the trade deadline when many offers will come in. Oops! He went to the Rockets. Too bad"), don't re-sign GTj, and keep all our picks.

Keep cap space, not to sign FAs, because FAs don't want to sign with us. Our highest profile FA signings have been Turkoglu and Demarre Carroll lmao. We're pathetic when it comes to free agents. No, I want to maintain cap space so that teams can trade us their negative assets and attach a pick or two with them (e.g., Presti strategy).

I can virtually guarantee we will not renounce Brown. We will recoup some value for him for sure. He's a glue guy and a solid player and lifts the floor of any team he's on.

[Merit]

I have outlined the 3 main holes that the Raptors need to address this offseason to help compile a balanced roster.

In:
Backup PG - Monte Morris - Great buy low candidate coming off an injury plagued season.

Backup C - Jalen Smith - Indiana won't be able to afford all their talent so I believe we can take him away. He shoots 40%+ from 3 while being a good rebounder so it's a great pairing with Olynyk off the bench and good contrast to Poeltl.

Starting Wing - Wiggins - Now hear me out, im not saying he is the answer long term. I think we can get him while also receiving additional assets from Gstate to help with our rebuild. For the short term, he fills the need of a starting versatile wing defender. Long term, we need to hit on one of our draft picks to take over from Wiggins.

Out:
Trent (let go or accept whatever you get in sign and trade)
Brown (used in Wiggins trade)

PG Quickley/ Morris/ JFL
SG RJ/ Dick/ Ochai
SF Wiggins/ 2024 Draft pick/ McDaniels
PF Barnes/ Olynyk/ Boucher
C Poeltl/ Smith/ 2024 draft pick

Should have waited & made this thread after May 12th.

End of discussion.

I'm quoting this for Tor Raps post. I like all of the people you're interested in just as much as you do. Point of fact I hope that we move Poeltl for assets as well. Let's rid ourselves entirely of any of the bench mob and Boucher.

[C_Money]

Count me on the renounce Brown (unless there is an immediate trade in place. None of that stuff like, "oh, just re-sign FVV and we can trade him at the trade deadline when many offers will come in. Oops! He went to the Rockets. Too bad"), don't re-sign GTj, and keep all our picks.

Keep cap space, not to sign FAs, because FAs don't want to sign with us. Our highest profile FA signings have been Turkoglu and Demarre Carroll lmao. We're pathetic when it comes to free agents. No, I want to maintain cap space so that teams can trade us their negative assets and attach a pick or two with them (e.g., Presti strategy).

I can virtually guarantee we will not renounce Brown. We will recoup some value for him for sure. He's a glue guy and a solid player and lifts the floor of any team he's on.

Lol let’s hope some teams still believe that after the way he played with us this year.

[Merit]

Convey please!

Or we could tank next year too!

[Merit]

why are people seem to be enamored by PWILL?

We could deal Scottie and acquire both PatWil and RobWil like when we once brought in AWil and EWil for Vince.

[Merit]

Two “realistic” off season scenarios

1) lose the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2024 lottery pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed assets for draft capital.

2) keep the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2025 pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed contracts for draft capital.

Both scenarios see next season as a tank with Kelly O starting at C

One more season to develop young guys and implement system (read: tank) for elite talent and 2025-2026 is when they start trying to legit compete again

I'm team tank next year unless we can acquire legit talent. Even then, I'm 100% comfortable with moving Poeltl. He'd be ideal on OKC as well.

Ideally, any move for our legitimate assets (Poeltl is one) should net us 2025 pick(s).

Using cap space to acquire distressed assets is the move for sure. Hopefully we move picks this year for said assets. Wiggins, a NOP wing, an OKC depth player? Consider me interested.

[Merit]

Has Masai ever traded a pick during the draft? I can't recall a time.

Masai also hasn't had 3 draft picks in the top 31 before, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used all the picks. They need to add as many cheap productive contracts as possible because IQ's getting paid and Barnes' max is coming and they will need some cheap depth...

The thing is that he hinted at moving the pick at his end-of-season conference.

[Merit]

I really don’t get the “let Gary walk” plan
So many in here, love to list all the times we “let players walk “ for nothing…
Gary is a top notch shooter, he has value in this league . There’s no way it’s a good idea to let an asset walk for nothing when u can resign him.. and if he isn’t fitting in the way we like, he becomes a tradeable asset down the line !

Is Gary after these many years a complete player at 18-22 mil? We should walk from one of Gary or Bruce but not paying Bruce his year two is a bad look. Brown's agent is Ty Sullivan who reps Donovan Mitchell. If we ever want to be players in the market I would not cheap on one year of Bruce Brown. We could be a landing place for Jordan Hawkins down the road. So I will take one year of Bruce at 23m vs. 3+ of Gary for 50-60. Any day of the week.

Hadn't considered the agent connection, but yes to Bruce for sure. And yes to Jordan Hawkins too.

[Merit]

I really don’t get the “let Gary walk” plan
So many in here, love to list all the times we “let players walk “ for nothing…
Gary is a top notch shooter, he has value in this league . There’s no way it’s a good idea to let an asset walk for nothing when u can resign him.. and if he isn’t fitting in the way we like, he becomes a tradeable asset down the line !

Is Gary after these many years a complete player at 18-22 mil? We should walk from one of Gary or Bruce but not paying Bruce his year two is a bad look. Brown's agent is Ty Sullivan who reps Donovan Mitchell. If we ever want to be players in the market I would not cheap on one year of Bruce Brown. We could be a landing place for Jordan Hawkins down the road. So I will take one year of Bruce at 23m vs. 3+ of Gary for 50-60. Any day of the week.

I'm personally not going to be worried about agents in this scenario. Brown was never worth that deal in the first place - it was offered to him by Indiana because a) they needed veterans and b) they needed a bigger contract to facilitate bigger moves. The only way I would be picking up his Team Option is if there's a team that's going to overpay (in terms of picks in 2025/26 and/or young players) to dump long term salary. If we don't retain the pick this year, this is something that may be worth considering.

If we do keep the pick this year and we don't get an adequate offer for taking on longer term salary, then he should be declined to make some room for free agent signings. I would also let Trent walk unless Chicago is interested in him as a part of a S&T for Patrick Williams. Not sure how CHI feels about him but I would feel fairly comfortable about offering $80M/4yrs.

At #6, I think you look at one of Holland, Williams, Buzelis or Dillingham. If these guys are not on the board or you don't want them for whatever legitimate reason, the pick can be moved to the Spurs or we can move down in the draft or out of it completely. With #19, we need to take a guard and depending on what we did with #6, you could take one of Holmes, Simpson, Watkins, Jones or Tyson at #31. From there, we use the capspace to sign some veterans - Lowry, Biyombo...maybe the MLE on Jalen Smith as well and another cheap wing.

Lastly, you re-up Quickley. Would like to get him somewhere in the range of $25-27M AVV at most.

Quickley/Lowry/#19 (Carter or MCain) or #31 (Simpson)
Barrett/Dick/Agbaji
Williams/#6 (Holland, Buzelis, Williams) or #31 (Watkins, Jones,Tyson)/Veteran
Barnes/Smith/Boucher
Poeltl/Olynk/Biyombo

We can always still move Boucher, Poeltl and the Pacers pick if we want to move up in 2025.

We will be picking up brown's player option if it comes to that, but we may trade him before then as well.

[Merit]

Two “realistic” off season scenarios

1) lose the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2024 lottery pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed assets for draft capital.

2) keep the pick: trade Poeltl for a prospect and 2025 pick. Use cap space to acquire distressed contracts for draft capital.

Both scenarios see next season as a tank with Kelly O starting at C

One more season to develop young guys and implement system (read: tank) for elite talent and 2025-2026 is when they start trying to legit compete again

Is there any team that would actually trade a lotto pick (or even a FRP in general) for Poeltl that can also digest or match the salary? I’m not even sure that’s on the table at all- although I’d love it to be.

Memphis could trade Kennard and 8th for Poeltl. The success the Wolves are having with two bigs might motivate them to shift JJJ back to PF. We would have a lower pick than what we gave up to the Spurs though. Not sure how the optics of that would look.

Count me in - especially if we're pivoting to a full tank.

[Merit]

Count me on the renounce Brown (unless there is an immediate trade in place. None of that stuff like, "oh, just re-sign FVV and we can trade him at the trade deadline when many offers will come in. Oops! He went to the Rockets. Too bad"), don't re-sign GTj, and keep all our picks.

Keep cap space, not to sign FAs, because FAs don't want to sign with us. Our highest profile FA signings have been Turkoglu and Demarre Carroll lmao. We're pathetic when it comes to free agents. No, I want to maintain cap space so that teams can trade us their negative assets and attach a pick or two with them (e.g., Presti strategy).

I can virtually guarantee we will not renounce Brown. We will recoup some value for him for sure. He's a glue guy and a solid player and lifts the floor of any team he's on.

Lol let’s hope some teams still believe that after the way he played with us this year.

Glue guys play up with better players. We also asked him to play backup PG. He's not a point guard. I agree though - looking for the best possible outcome for the raps.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah I don't know where this Pat Williams talk is coming from. Its very hard to pry an RFA away - you will need to trade for them instead of trying to out-bid the team that has their rights. Only way to get an RFA is if that team already has a big payroll and doesn't want to add more - are the Bulls in that position?

There is a higher chance that we do some sort of sign and trade involving Brown and Pat Will (where we throw them #19 or #31 as well) than there is we sign him as an RFA.

That is more interesting to discuss.

I wouldn't. Brown is better than PWill and we are looking to develop a wing in Gradey anyway. Now if we got a wing that was equal or better than Brown, consider me interested.

Brown is also how many years his senior and PatWill does something we need (wing defender / hits 3's).

[YogurtProducer]

Count me on the renounce Brown (unless there is an immediate trade in place. None of that stuff like, "oh, just re-sign FVV and we can trade him at the trade deadline when many offers will come in. Oops! He went to the Rockets. Too bad"), don't re-sign GTj, and keep all our picks.

Keep cap space, not to sign FAs, because FAs don't want to sign with us. Our highest profile FA signings have been Turkoglu and Demarre Carroll lmao. We're pathetic when it comes to free agents. No, I want to maintain cap space so that teams can trade us their negative assets and attach a pick or two with them (e.g., Presti strategy).

I can virtually guarantee we will not renounce Brown. We will recoup some value for him for sure. He's a glue guy and a solid player and lifts the floor of any team he's on.

Lol let’s hope some teams still believe that after the way he played with us this year.

You realize his stats are almost identical with us as they were with Denver, right? He just played a few fewer mins.

DEN = 14.6/5.2/4.2 57.1TS
TOR = 13.3/5.3/3.7 55.7TS

The fact it is that close with much worse teammates actually surprised me

[Pointgod]

Realistic offseason is that we have a predictable draft, whether or not we lose the pick, decline Brown, let GTJ walk, extend Quickley and sign some MLE type role players to short term deals so the front office can “evaluate”

Not sure if this is the free agent class but it we need to take more gambles on the Jalen Brunson type free agent. The guys that kind of fly under the radar but have demonstrated the have the tools to make a leap. I’m prepared for another quiet offseason.

we can sign a MLE player without letting those 2 walk... If we let those two walk, that's caps pace that would be opened up.

A trade will happen this draft/summer
we will sign someone to the MLE

Quickley, Barnes, Barrett, Dick, Olynyk, Poeltl, Agbaji, Boucher, McDaniels puts us at 9 players. If we keep all of our picks that’s 12 players not including Brown or GTJ. If we keep those 2 and a MLE signing we’re at 15 guaranteed roster spots. And we’re probably getting close to the luxury tax. That’s why I believe they’ll let GTJ walk and waive Brown because they’ll have to take back a big contract or multiple contracts. They’ll probably over pay for a MLE level role player on a shorter deal to stay away from the tax and maintain flexibility.

These guys aren’t going to use the cap space to make any big splash.

[Merit]

There is a higher chance that we do some sort of sign and trade involving Brown and Pat Will (where we throw them #19 or #31 as well) than there is we sign him as an RFA.

That is more interesting to discuss.

I wouldn't. Brown is better than PWill and we are looking to develop a wing in Gradey anyway. Now if we got a wing that was equal or better than Brown, consider me interested.

Brown is also how many years his senior and PatWill does something we need (wing defender / hits 3's).

For sure. I would rather move Brown for someone else. Your suggested package makes sense, but Wiggins would be my target over Pwill. Wigs has proven himself as a scorer, has the athleticism to excel, and has a contract that could hold value. Depending on what happens with Klay, we could even extract an additional asset for Wiggins. For example, Brown and 31 for Wiggins and GSW's 2025 pick. If they want to keep their pick, we could even look to move Boucher/McDaniels/Ochai and the 19 for Wiggins.

[Merit]

I can virtually guarantee we will not renounce Brown. We will recoup some value for him for sure. He's a glue guy and a solid player and lifts the floor of any team he's on.

Lol let’s hope some teams still believe that after the way he played with us this year.

You realize his stats are almost identical with us as they were with Denver, right? He just played a few fewer mins.

DEN = 14.6/5.2/4.2 57.1TS
TOR = 13.3/5.3/3.7 55.7TS

The fact it is that close with much worse teammates actually surprised me

I'm surprised by how close those stats are, but then I remember the empty minutes he played in games where we lost. Regardless, I hope we get a solid return for him, as his salary is our biggest trade chip.

[DreamTeam09]

Realistic offseason is that we have a predictable draft, whether or not we lose the pick, decline Brown, let GTJ walk, extend Quickley and sign some MLE type role players to short term deals so the front office can “evaluate”

Not sure if this is the free agent class but it we need to take more gambles on the Jalen Brunson type free agent. The guys that kind of fly under the radar but have demonstrated the have the tools to make a leap. I’m prepared for another quiet offseason.

we can sign a MLE player without letting those 2 walk... If we let those two walk, that's caps pace that would be opened up.

A trade will happen this draft/summer
we will sign someone to the MLE

Quickley, Barnes, Barrett, Dick, Olynyk, Poeltl, Agbaji, Boucher, McDaniels puts us at 9 players. If we keep all of our picks that’s 12 players not including Brown or GTJ. If we keep those 2 and a MLE signing we’re at 15 guaranteed roster spots. And we’re probably getting close to the luxury tax. That’s why I believe they’ll let GTJ walk and waive Brown because they’ll have to take back a big contract or multiple contracts. They’ll probably over pay for a MLE level role player on a shorter deal to stay away from the tax and maintain flexibility.

These guys aren’t going to use the cap space to make any big splash.

Barnes - 10.1 mill
Barrett - 25.7mill
Dick - 4.7mill
Olynyk - 12.8mill
Jakob - 19.5mill
Ochai - 4.3mill
Boucher - 10.8mill
McDaniels - 4.7mill
#19 - 3.4mill
Quickly - cap hit 12.5mill
108.5mill
**Nwora - cap hit 3.7
112.2mill
+ 6ill or 10mill if we keep pick (1-6)

Salary cap is 141 this yr
Luxury tax is 172

They already said tho that we'll be operating above the cap this year, meaning they will pick up Browns option & look to trade him, + use the MLE. After that we'll resign quickly and still be under the tax.
With Boucher + McDaniels expiring which will tack onto Barnes salary for his extension next summer

[brownbobcat]

we can sign a MLE player without letting those 2 walk... If we let those two walk, that's caps pace that would be opened up.

A trade will happen this draft/summer
we will sign someone to the MLE

Quickley, Barnes, Barrett, Dick, Olynyk, Poeltl, Agbaji, Boucher, McDaniels puts us at 9 players. If we keep all of our picks that’s 12 players not including Brown or GTJ. If we keep those 2 and a MLE signing we’re at 15 guaranteed roster spots. And we’re probably getting close to the luxury tax. That’s why I believe they’ll let GTJ walk and waive Brown because they’ll have to take back a big contract or multiple contracts. They’ll probably over pay for a MLE level role player on a shorter deal to stay away from the tax and maintain flexibility.

These guys aren’t going to use the cap space to make any big splash.

Barnes - 10.1 mill
Barrett - 25.7mill
Dick - 4.7mill
Olynyk - 12.8mill
Jakob - 19.5mill
Ochai - 4.3mill
Boucher - 10.8mill
McDaniels - 4.7mill
#19 - 3.4mill
Quickly - cap hit 12.5mill
108.5mill
**Nwora - cap hit 3.7
112.2mill
+ 6ill or 10mill if we keep pick (1-6)

Salary cap is 141 this yr
Luxury tax is 172

They already said tho that we'll be operating above the cap this year, meaning they will pick up Browns option & look to trade him, + use the MLE. After that we'll resign quickly and still be under the tax.
With Boucher + McDaniels expiring which will tack onto Barnes salary for his extension next summer

$93M - Committed cap
$11M - Rookie capholds (changes depending on pick slot)

Let's say IQ's extension starts at $30M and they pick up Brown's option, that brings the total to $157M for 12 players. I don't want GTJ to walk for nothing, but you cannot overpay a player of his caliber - especially not when that comes with luxury tax consequences which limit trade flexibility. Ideally they'd get slightly lower on the IQ deal to get a bit more breathing room, but I think they will hold the line on GTJ at somewhere slightly above MLE. If they can't get IQ lower, I fully expect them to let GTJ walk and then try to split up the MLE on a few guys.

[Pointgod]

Quickley, Barnes, Barrett, Dick, Olynyk, Poeltl, Agbaji, Boucher, McDaniels puts us at 9 players. If we keep all of our picks that’s 12 players not including Brown or GTJ. If we keep those 2 and a MLE signing we’re at 15 guaranteed roster spots. And we’re probably getting close to the luxury tax. That’s why I believe they’ll let GTJ walk and waive Brown because they’ll have to take back a big contract or multiple contracts. They’ll probably over pay for a MLE level role player on a shorter deal to stay away from the tax and maintain flexibility.

These guys aren’t going to use the cap space to make any big splash.

Barnes - 10.1 mill
Barrett - 25.7mill
Dick - 4.7mill
Olynyk - 12.8mill
Jakob - 19.5mill
Ochai - 4.3mill
Boucher - 10.8mill
McDaniels - 4.7mill
#19 - 3.4mill
Quickly - cap hit 12.5mill
108.5mill
**Nwora - cap hit 3.7
112.2mill
+ 6ill or 10mill if we keep pick (1-6)

Salary cap is 141 this yr
Luxury tax is 172

They already said tho that we'll be operating above the cap this year, meaning they will pick up Browns option & look to trade him, + use the MLE. After that we'll resign quickly and still be under the tax.
With Boucher + McDaniels expiring which will tack onto Barnes salary for his extension next summer

$93M - Committed cap
$11M - Rookie capholds (changes depending on pick slot)

Let's say IQ's extension starts at $30M and they pick up Brown's option, that brings the total to $157M for 12 players. I don't want GTJ to walk for nothing, but you cannot overpay a player of his caliber - especially not when that comes with luxury tax consequences which limit trade flexibility. Ideally they'd get slightly lower on the IQ deal to get a bit more breathing room, but I think they will hold the line on GTJ at somewhere slightly above MLE. If they can't get IQ lower, I fully expect them to let GTJ walk and then try to split up the MLE on a few guys.

This include the rookie contracts?