Aaron Gordon says Scottie Barnes when asked about "guy miscast in role as star who might excel as the ultimate glue guy"

[tsherkin]

Some people havent watched games and seen Scottie turn it on in 4Q. Scottie is a legit go to scorer when he turns it on

Scottie scored 5.9 ppg in 4th quarters, FWIW. It was quite productive for him. Don't know that I'd call that sample any kind of indication that he's a "legit go to scorer" when his overall profile is so weak, though. He has a lot of work to do on his overall scoring output and efficacy in order to be a legitimate choice as a focal offensive player. He did lots and lots really well this season, but that's still an area where he needs considerable improvement.

[TheRaptor!]

Some people havent watched games and seen Scottie turn it on in 4Q. Scottie is a legit go to scorer when he turns it on

Hell no he isnt

show me clutch stats that support this statement

[tsherkin]

Some people havent watched games and seen Scottie turn it on in 4Q. Scottie is a legit go to scorer when he turns it on

Hell no he isnt

show me clutch stats that support this statement

So just FWIW, StatMuse says he scored 5.9 ppg on 53.5% FG and 34.9% 3P (albeit on 0.7 3PA/g) and 81.2% on 1.5 FTA/g, with 2.5 rpg and 1.6 apg, 0.7 tpg, 0.4 bpg and 0.4 spg. That's the whole quarter, mind, no definition of clutch.

[Boogie!]

Ive said this before about scottie… he doesnt have the go to guy type game and his offensive skillset isnt that reliable. To me he would thrive next to an actual go to scorer, as long as he keeps working on his 3. Would i like for him to be kawhi offensively? Sure… I just dont see it in him.

[tsherkin]

Ive said this before about scottie… he doesnt have the go to guy type game and his offensive skillset isnt that reliable. To me he would thrive next to an actual go to scorer, as long as he keeps working on his 3. Would i like for him to be kawhi offensively? Sure… I just dont see it in him.

It makes sense. Like, what's his elite skill set or major-leverage physical trait? Usually, you can see that even in a rookie season, let alone 3 years in, and we kind of don't with Scottie. He's got power and a sturdy frame, but he can use that only so much. He's got something of a post game, but he's only so good with that, and only so athletic about it. It certainly isn't shooting or foot speed, and while his handle has improved considerably, he's not gonna be Kyrie/SGA or anything out there. So what can he lean on to get his effectively, right?

[Ell Curry]

It's sort of meaningless because virtually every NBA player is better off in a lesser role except for certain ball-dominating guards.

All that really matters here is

1) Finding an all-star perimeter player (or center I guess) to go with Barnes, and hopefully we can do that without giving up Quickley so he can be our #3 scorer (if it's a center, which it probably won't be, then we probably do need to keep Quickley)
2) Having a good set of 4th-7th men guys as depth

Unlikely Scottie can be the #1 on a true contending team, particularly with the cap and our lack of truly great picks meaning we probably can't just be OKC and have guys like Jalen Williams and Chet making like 15M combined.

Though a truly "no top 10 guys" team where we mortgage our future in terms of picks and end up with say Quickley - Mikal Bridges - Jerami Grant - Scottie Barnes - Jarrett Allen (let's say Barrett and a first for Allen because Cleveland needs a wing, 3 firsts and expiring money for Bridges if they pack it in - though that's a bad example because they don't own their own picks - and got Jerami Grant for Poeltl and a first in a 3-way deal , would probably comfortably win 45+ games, but would surely fall short in the playoffs when things get sticky.

In any case, Barnes is sort of a textbook #2, just need to somehow find a star in the draft next year now that we have our pick. A Paul Pierce/Haliburton/Donovan Mitchell/Booker of a pick in the 2nd half of the lottery seems like it's probably essential or we might be drawing dead during the Scottie era.

[yellowknifer]

Lebron is gorilla glue. All I take from his comment is that Scotty can do everything. And he can at a high level. He showed flashes of having the skills to be the go to scorer on the team as well. But he was asked to do a tonne. He was often guarding the other teams best player and being asked to be the primary help defender and also defend the rim. And of course he ran the offense frequently. He showed signs that it was a bit much for him in his current form. But I think more time in the gym and a mild improvement in conditioning as well as better judgement on when to give maximum effort and when you can find some breathing room can solve this. His shot looked great early in the year. It deteriorated as the year progressed I think for this reason.

[Harry Palmer]

It's sort of meaningless because virtually every NBA player is better off in a lesser role except for certain ball-dominating guards.

All that really matters here is

1) Finding an all-star perimeter player (or center I guess) to go with Barnes, and hopefully we can do that without giving up Quickley so he can be our #3 scorer (if it's a center, which it probably won't be, then we probably do need to keep Quickley)
2) Having a good set of 4th-7th men guys as depth

Unlikely Scottie can be the #1 on a true contending team, particularly with the cap and our lack of truly great picks meaning we probably can't just be OKC and have guys like Jalen Williams and Chet making like 15M combined.

Though a truly "no top 10 guys" team where we mortgage our future in terms of picks and end up with say Quickley - Mikal Bridges - Jerami Grant - Scottie Barnes - Jarrett Allen (let's say Barrett and a first for Allen because Cleveland needs a wing, 3 firsts and expiring money for Bridges if they pack it in - though that's a bad example because they don't own their own picks - and got Jerami Grant for Poeltl and a first in a 3-way deal , would probably comfortably win 45+ games, but would surely fall short in the playoffs when things get sticky.

In any case, Barnes is sort of a textbook #2, just need to somehow find a star in the draft next year now that we have our pick. A Paul Pierce/Haliburton/Donovan Mitchell/Booker of a pick in the 2nd half of the lottery seems like it's probably essential or we might be drawing dead during the Scottie era.

Quickly is not the kind of player you need to make organizational decisions to accommodate. Ideally he’s a 6th man, imo.

[Los_29]

It's sort of meaningless because virtually every NBA player is better off in a lesser role except for certain ball-dominating guards.

All that really matters here is

1) Finding an all-star perimeter player (or center I guess) to go with Barnes, and hopefully we can do that without giving up Quickley so he can be our #3 scorer (if it's a center, which it probably won't be, then we probably do need to keep Quickley)
2) Having a good set of 4th-7th men guys as depth

Unlikely Scottie can be the #1 on a true contending team, particularly with the cap and our lack of truly great picks meaning we probably can't just be OKC and have guys like Jalen Williams and Chet making like 15M combined.

Though a truly "no top 10 guys" team where we mortgage our future in terms of picks and end up with say Quickley - Mikal Bridges - Jerami Grant - Scottie Barnes - Jarrett Allen (let's say Barrett and a first for Allen because Cleveland needs a wing, 3 firsts and expiring money for Bridges if they pack it in - though that's a bad example because they don't own their own picks - and got Jerami Grant for Poeltl and a first in a 3-way deal , would probably comfortably win 45+ games, but would surely fall short in the playoffs when things get sticky.

In any case, Barnes is sort of a textbook #2, just need to somehow find a star in the draft next year now that we have our pick. A Paul Pierce/Haliburton/Donovan Mitchell/Booker of a pick in the 2nd half of the lottery seems like it's probably essential or we might be drawing dead during the Scottie era.

Quickly is not the kind of player you need to make organizational decisions to accommodate. Ideally he’s a 6th man, imo.

Bench players are almost always limited in terms of what they can do. Maybe they can score but they can’t defend and facilitate. Maybe they can facilitate and defend but they can’t score. IQ is not this kind of player. IQ has done exceptionally well as a starter in his career. Better than when coming off the bench.

You’d be very hard pressed to find a player who can average 19/7/5 on solid efficiency off the bench. IQ is a good starter and most teams would see him as one. Especially in today’s NBA.

[CPT]

Whether this is totally true or just partially (ie Scottie could be an elite 1B), I worry that we need a player better than Scottie while his presence on the team makes that harder to accomplish.

[kingz3290]

im sorry but this fanbase has such an unrealistic viewpoint as Scottie Barnes actual skillset. If you're waiting for him to lead you through a playoff series with his scoring and defense, good luck. There's a reason why this team needed to have a top 5 pick in either this draft or next years draaft - because the star we need still isn't on this team - and it sure as hell isnt RJ or IQ

[AHCanada]

im sorry but this fanbase has such an unrealistic viewpoint as Scottie Barnes actual skillset. If you're waiting for him to lead you through a playoff series with his scoring and defense, good luck. There's a reason why this team needed to have a top 5 pick in either this draft or next years draaft - because the star we need still isn't on this team - and it sure as hell isnt RJ or IQ

IMO they're going to try and make this team get in solid playoff territory and then hope to land a star again like they did with Kawhi. I don't think they'll be able to tank next year. Could be in treadmill territory for a while.

[ConSarnit]

Ive said this before about scottie… he doesnt have the go to guy type game and his offensive skillset isnt that reliable. To me he would thrive next to an actual go to scorer, as long as he keeps working on his 3. Would i like for him to be kawhi offensively? Sure… I just dont see it in him.

It makes sense. Like, what's his elite skill set or major-leverage physical trait? Usually, you can see that even in a rookie season, let alone 3 years in, and we kind of don't with Scottie. He's got power and a sturdy frame, but he can use that only so much. He's got something of a post game, but he's only so good with that, and only so athletic about it. It certainly isn't shooting or foot speed, and while his handle has improved considerably, he's not gonna be Kyrie/SGA or anything out there. So what can he lean on to get his effectively, right?

His comp for getting there would be Kawhi. We’ve seen Barnes knock legit centers off their spot with his strength so he’s going to need to use that. This all depends on shooting, which is still tbd. Not the fastest guy but can bully pretty much anyone and has the size to get his shot off over almost anyone. Barnes is really going to need to become a good shooter for him to be a closing option. I don’t think he’s ever going to have the speed or handle to blow by guys.

If he doesn’t improve his shooting I don’t see a way for him to become a closer-type.

[tsherkin]

His comp for getting there would be Kawhi.

If you mean ITO power, I suppose that makes sense. Kawhi's faster, has better handles and is a MUCH better shooter, though, so it goes only so far.

If he doesn’t improve his shooting I don’t see a way for him to become a closer-type.

I don't know that we need him to be a "closer," per se. What we need is someone who represents a proportion of our offense which uplifts us instead of holds us back. He doesn't need to be the guy we go to possession after possession at the end of games like it's 2004. Instead, we are chasing someone who can shoulder like 30% USG at +2% rTS. That isn't a small ask, though. First step, actually making league average efficiency. He was there for a chunk of the year, and I think that without him pitting out from 3 in January and February, he would have been there (or at least with the last two dozen games of the year to recover...). Then we could be bitching about his issues with variance instead of his overall inefficiency and such. The way he looked in November and December was pretty nice for us, to be honest, especially with his passing and defense.

I think we have a pretty good bead on who is and isn't going to be a generational offensive player reasonably early on in their careers, though, and I think that's not Scottie. But he still does have upside, so it becomes more of an issue trying to find how we can pair a real #1 with him, you know?

[ConSarnit]

His comp for getting there would be Kawhi.

If you mean ITO power, I suppose that makes sense. Kawhi's faster, has better handles and is a MUCH better shooter, though, so it goes only so far.

If he doesn’t improve his shooting I don’t see a way for him to become a closer-type.

I don't know that we need him to be a "closer," per se. What we need is someone who represents a proportion of our offense which uplifts us instead of holds us back. He doesn't need to be the guy we go to possession after possession at the end of games like it's 2004. Instead, we are chasing someone who can shoulder like 30% USG at +2% rTS. That isn't a small ask, though. First step, actually making league average efficiency. He was there for a chunk of the year, and I think that without him pitting out from 3 in January and February, he would have been there (or at least with the last two dozen games of the year to recover...). Then we could be bitching about his issues with variance instead of his overall inefficiency and such. The way he looked in November and December was pretty nice for us, to be honest, especially with his passing and defense.

I think we have a pretty good bead on who is and isn't going to be a generational offensive player reasonably early on in their careers, though, and I think that's not Scottie. But he still does have upside, so it becomes more of an issue trying to find how we can pair a real #1 with him, you know?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he can he to Kawhi’s level, just that it’s the path he’d have to take to get there due to his lack of quickness and high level ball handling. It’s going to have to be strength and size based for Barnes to have any success as an iso scorer.

[tsherkin]

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he can he to Kawhi’s level, just that it’s the path he’d have to take to get there due to his lack of quickness and high level ball handling. It’s going to have to be strength and size based for Barnes to have any success as an iso scorer.

That makes sense, for sure. And as he improves his shot, he'll gain a half-step, a step, just by drawing defenders in due to the threat. Then he can use his stride and his power to get them on his hip and get past them, for sure. And of course, continue developing him in the post, because he already has success of one sort or another generating decent looks there, and creating some for others when we have dudes who can move around.

[Pointgod]

With all due respect to Aaron Gordon, Scottie has already had a better season than Gordon ever had so I’m not quite sure the comparison is accurate. This season should go a long way in telling us if Scottie can be the guy or just a guy.

[PushDaRock]

Siakam leaving and Scottie's scoring even going down instead of up with so many more FGA's available is a bit surprising/disappointing if you're someone who thinks he can be a #1 option down the line. Even if his efficiency dropped which it did anyways, you would like to see him being aggressive and hunting down those shot attempts with the free reign he had out there.

[PushDaRock]

Ive said this before about scottie… he doesnt have the go to guy type game and his offensive skillset isnt that reliable. To me he would thrive next to an actual go to scorer, as long as he keeps working on his 3. Would i like for him to be kawhi offensively? Sure… I just dont see it in him.

Funny enough, people were complaining about Siakam stunting his growth earlier in the year but he was at his best when he had Siakam drawing the attention as the #1 option and playing off that. His scoring and efficiency dropped off noticeably after Siakam wasn't there.

[srhcan]

Players who are walking triple-double threat can be termed as star or glue guy; its same thing for them.