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2023-24 General Thread

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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#21 » by BoogieTime » Mon Nov 6, 2023 2:51 am

OxAndFox wrote:I think something that is being pushed aside is the fact that all of these guys are trying to get better, but the 1 glaring weakness from the POs last season remains. Domas can't shoot a mid range jump shot. It was the main reason the Kings got beaten in the POs, along with the outside shooting, and its bizarre that you can go into an off season and not work on your main weakness.
Everything else is just noise, if Domas isn't a #2 or a #3 then this team is doomed.


last year, for the year, he was a #1 on the team. Fox had the clutch heroics, and played better in the 'offs, but Sabonis was the hub of the team's offense and was seen as the higher mvp candidate.

I think its more mental. Last year he developed a solid three point shot, and show well from percentages at midrange. He just needs to do it without it being a liability now
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#22 » by OxAndFox » Mon Nov 6, 2023 3:39 am

BoogieTime wrote:
OxAndFox wrote:I think something that is being pushed aside is the fact that all of these guys are trying to get better, but the 1 glaring weakness from the POs last season remains. Domas can't shoot a mid range jump shot. It was the main reason the Kings got beaten in the POs, along with the outside shooting, and its bizarre that you can go into an off season and not work on your main weakness.
Everything else is just noise, if Domas isn't a #2 or a #3 then this team is doomed.


last year, for the year, he was a #1 on the team. Fox had the clutch heroics, and played better in the 'offs, but Sabonis was the hub of the team's offense and was seen as the higher mvp candidate.

I think its more mental. Last year he developed a solid three point shot, and show well from percentages at midrange. He just needs to do it without it being a liability now


I agree somewhat, but you can see teams are already giving him space and waiting under the basket for him.
Have a look at his stats so far.
5-9ft = 1/2.2 @ 45.5%
10-14ft = 0.6/1.6 @ 37.5%

So from 5-14 feet he is 1.6/3.8 @ 42.1%. I don't think you want him taking too many

He is 12th in attempts from 5-9ft for centers. Javale McGee shoots more from that range and hits a much better percentage.

The inside 5ft area he is doing ok. But that has never been the problem.
Everyone was expecting him to come into the season and show improvement and I'm yet to see anyone point it out. Instead, we're fixated on a mixture of Huerter, Davion, Keegan, and Barnes as the problems. Not saying they're not a problem, but they're always the guys that cop it in the neck, but Domas has escaped any criticism from within the Kings fan base.

Now, having said that, the Kings can help him out by hitting some damn 3s on DHO action which draws his opponent out to him and gives Domas passing lanes and drives to the basket himself. That would fix his problems because he simply won't need to shoot from his awkward ranges.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#23 » by LightTheBeam » Mon Nov 6, 2023 5:27 pm

The Kings are outscoring opponents by 7.4 points/100 possessions with Mitchell on the bench.

The Kings are *being outscored* by 16.2 points/100 possessions with Mitchell on the floor.

Overall, Mitchell is posting a -23.6 on/off net rating this season.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#24 » by LightTheBeam » Mon Nov 6, 2023 5:30 pm

I love Domas, but he's a limited player imo. Can't shoot, can't defend the rim, overrated dribbler who is predictable and turns it over when asked to do too much.

I hated the offseason. They resigned Barnes who was clearly on his last leg, then gave extra money to Sabonis a year early. This was our best chance to improve and they threw it down the drain. Not saying we are a bad team, but we got VERY fortunate with injuries last year. We saw in the playoffs fox/monk were the only guys who could get a shot, we didn't address that at all.

I'm hoping Barnes + Huerter + Mitchell + picks can get us another difference maker.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#25 » by KF10 » Mon Nov 6, 2023 7:56 pm

I predicted the Kings will go 5-5 for the first 10 games of the season -- with Fox.

Now, it's looking like 4-6 or worse.

I still believe the Kings can re-gain their footing and right the ship soon but they need to improve/bounce back from the Houston game big time. Hated the effort from the starting 5 last game.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#26 » by madskillz8 » Mon Nov 6, 2023 8:19 pm

I know the season didn't start the way we were hoping for, but I still believe Kings are "an efficient Sabonis midrange" away from conference finals with this roster.

In addition, 3/5 of the second unit is new, and they definitely need some time to gel. However, I didn't like the offensive roles of Duarte and Vezenkov. Sometimes Duarte plays like an inefficient swingman from 00s who thinks he's more talented than he actually is. And Vezenkov takes way too many contested 3s. With a better offensive plan, he can have more uncontested looks. I do believe he can easily average 45+% on 3pts (currently 31.6%).

Other than the minutes with starting five, I would like to see these lineups more:
**** Fox-Monk-Vezenkov-Barnes-McGee
Fox & Monk PnRs with McGee
The gravity of Fox & Monk can create many open looks for Vezenkov & Barnes in corners
McGee & Vezenkov together generates a guard-oriented offense that stalls from time to time

**** Mitchell-Huerter-Duarte(Lyles)-Keegan-Sabonis
Huerter and Keegan utilizes Sabonis' high post action a lot
I don't like Mitchell & Monk lineups at all...
Lesser role for Duarte on offense
Rim protection is questionable but Mitchell's defense will likely eliminate some drive attempts from opposing guards
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#27 » by OxAndFox » Mon Nov 6, 2023 11:42 pm

I agree with everything you said madskillz8. Domas needs to improve that shot and that unlocks a lot of things.
I still believe the off season was a great one. IMO Monte missed out on his main prize and that was Josh Hart. He would have been the perfect teacher for Colby who has a similar game.

Other that Hart there weren't any FAs that the Kings could have signed and replaced Barnes IMO. Kuzma isn't that guy. You don't want his, nor Brooks' character/attitude on this team. Trading for a player into space, I don't see anyone that was available better than Barnes.He is still putting up 15 on 54% from outside. If Keegan and Huerter are shooting anywhere close to that the Kings are likely 4-1.
Having said that I would look to move Barnes into a reserve role and bring Lyles or Vezenkov into the starting line-up.
If Sasha was getting the same open looks as Barnes he would be hitting them at a similar clip instead of having to force up contested shots and he would also give more on the boards. Same can be said for Lyles when he gets back.
Put Barnes into the bench unit and he will get the same amount of shots as he is now, but Monk will have someone else that can score alongside him. Colby/Monk/Barnes/Lyles/McGee or Colby/Monk/Duarte/Barnes/Lyles would be very good bench units.

At this point Davion needs to be moved for whatever value. Colby can play the defacto back up PG with Monk doing the majority of the ball handling. He can also play alongside Fox much better.
Not sure the Raptors would value Davion, but if you can package him and others along with picks for OG you need to do it now. Or if Siakam's value has droped a little, you do it for him.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#28 » by City of Trees » Tue Nov 7, 2023 1:46 am

Warriors exposed Sabonis in the playoffs and every other team took notice.

No Fox and Domas finished the 1st quarter with only 2 pts against a defender who can't guard him.

Domas is not playing winning basketball when he passes on wide opened shots because he can't hit them. Kings offense will dip this year if that continues.

It's early but my observation after 5 games is the Kings need Keegan to develop just to make up for Domas getting exposed.


If the Kings want to be a championship contender Keegan needs to be a guy you can say "go get a bucket". Domas isn't that guy. Domas is the scrappy guy down under grabbing the boards. He doesn't possess the length and athleticism to battle thru the other team collapsing on him in the paint.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#29 » by LightTheBeam » Tue Nov 7, 2023 2:15 am

Sure am glad that we went and gave Domas an unnecessary raise + extend a year early.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#30 » by BoogieTime » Tue Nov 7, 2023 2:36 am

Starts with Mitchell, who is a bust, starting when he shouldn’t be playing at all
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#31 » by City of Trees » Tue Nov 7, 2023 2:52 am

Why not throw the new guy from the Clippers out there?
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#32 » by OxAndFox » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:04 am

City of Trees wrote:Why not throw the new guy from the Clippers out there?


Yep. Might as well give him some run. Not like these guys are playing like they have played together for more than a season.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#33 » by madskillz8 » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:05 am

I think, at that point, it starts with Sabonis on both ends of the floor. I blame coaching staff though, not Sabonis - he's the same player. It is just the other teams are adjusting, studied our game plan but we are failing to respond. Badly.

It is big big a coaching problem when you can't get an uncontested shot or buy an easy bucket while giving open looks on almost every single possession. I hope MB wont talk about how bad we shot the ball. Of course players' percentages would go down when their shoots are contested all the time. It's not a rocket science (no pun intended)
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#34 » by LightTheBeam » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:06 am

BoogieTime wrote:Starts with Mitchell, who is a bust, starting when he shouldn’t be playing at all


Na this starts with Sabonis. 45 million dollar man getting played off the court by Sengun and Landale. He's the supposed best player, MVP candidate, he should be able to lift this team when Fox is out. He's been pathetic.

Mitchell is trash, but hes a 10 mpg backup pg who makes 5/year.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#35 » by LightTheBeam » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:08 am

Team tried to have a championship off-season. Improve around the edges, when they were fortunate to be a 3rd seed. We all knew this was more like a play-in team.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#36 » by OxAndFox » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:17 am

Don't think this 2 game stand could have gone worse. This is also on coach Brown. If Ime Udoka can put together a defensive scheme that his players understand in months, why can't the Kings?
Yep, they have Brooks, but outside of him they don't have great defenders, just guys that are willing to do whatever.
Huerter was the best defender tonight, and that's bad.

Why is it that the Kings NEVER, EVER attack the defensive liability on the opposition, but it's all people talk about on the opposite side? Huerter getting targeted, Barnes isn't good enough to stay in front of his man, and Sasha will get targeted.
Why on earth are defensive liabilities like FVV allowed to simply cruise around and not get taken advantage of?
Curry for GS, D-Lo for Lakers, Sexton/Fontechio/George for Utah?
Portland is going to be tougher as they've got decent defenders, so I doubt the Kings defeat them anyway, with or without Fox.

I hope this is a blip where Brown said the Kings might regress a little, like 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but the D hasn't improved and I don't think it's necessarily ALL about personnel.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#37 » by BoogieTime » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:19 am

Keon and Colby, rescue us from Davion/Duarte/Huerter
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#38 » by City of Trees » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:20 am

Unacceptable for an All-Star + All NBA player to take just 4 shots in 30 minutes. Sabonis will finish with 8/8/5

I acknowledge Domas' skillet but it's become clear he is your dirty work/passing/screening big, not your #2 on a championship contender. However, he got paid like one.
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#39 » by City of Trees » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:28 am

"3rd unit" giving the final score a boost
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Re: 2023-24 General Thread 

Post#40 » by OxAndFox » Tue Nov 7, 2023 3:29 am

LightTheBeam wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Starts with Mitchell, who is a bust, starting when he shouldn’t be playing at all


Na this starts with Sabonis. 45 million dollar man getting played off the court by Sengun and Landale. He's the supposed best player, MVP candidate, he should be able to lift this team when Fox is out. He's been pathetic.

Mitchell is trash, but hes a 10 mpg backup pg who makes 5/year.


Unfortunately when Domas signed that contract, that is what he signed up for.
This is absolutely on Domas. He has 1/2 moves and its easy for teams to figure it out. He isn't as aggressive at the moment for some reason bringing the ball up the court which is where he got a lot of points last year.

I'm also not sure what the stats say, but on the eye test it seems like when Davion gets the start he is handling the ball more than Fox does. Going to have to look into that.

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