Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
AtheJ415 wrote:Vogel should be benching Nurkic at this point. His effort level to start this game was beyond inexcusable. Set an example to the rest of the team. Start Bol for a game.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
garrick wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:Vogel should be benching Nurkic at this point. His effort level to start this game was beyond inexcusable. Set an example to the rest of the team. Start Bol for a game.
Why isn't Azubuike getting any minutes?
You know that at least he isn't blowing a wide open layup or dunk under the rim like bum Nurkic.
garrick wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:Golanator wrote:
I think we could have a coaching staff of prime Pop, Phil Jackson and Erik Spoelstra and they would struggle with this team. The defense is a disaster. All 3 stars don't want to shoot 3's. We can't rebound. We have 3 elite mid range guys, which great, but it's still not a great shot when the other team has a layup line and shoots >50% from deep.
It's fantasy land and neither Beal (NTC) or Toronto would do this but Beal for Siakam I think would help a lot. Play KD at the 3. We need to play bigger like the Nuggets have with Jokic/Gordon/MPJ.
I love Book but I'm also ready to move past the Point Book experiment. The issue is we have no options there either.
My view now is that if we're not playing great defense anyway, we might as well try and be elite at offense. It was mentioned that Vogel's defensive schemes are complex and needs time to really get across it but I kind of think we should just simplify it as much as possible and just go all out offensively. We're not going to win many games being middle of the pack defensively and outside the top 10 offensively so we might as well throw caution to the wind and do whatever we can get to get into the top 5 in offense even at the expense of being a bottom 10 defensive team.
I don't think Vogel is the kind of coach that would endorse and run that kind of system which is why I think we may need to just make a call on his Suns tenure. I highly doubt D'Antoni is keen to get back into coaching at 72 but if we're not playing great D we might as well hand the reigns to one of the most balls to the wall offense coach in NBA history.
I don't even know why Ishbia/Thomas chose Vogel as the head coach as he wasn't ever known as a great offensive coach and our roster doesn't suggest that we are going to be an elite defensive team anytime soon. It's just one of the many curious and disastrous decisions our glorious owner has made which is backfiring spectacularly.
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Revived wrote:Bradley Beal averaged over SIX 3pt attempts per game for his career before joining the Suns. He’s averaging THREE 3pt attempts per game for the Suns.
He’s even had seasons where he averaged EIGHT 3pt attempts per game.
Tell me again about the genius that is Kevin Young.
Our “star” players take the most inefficient shot in basketball…the midrange.
sunsbg wrote:Damn. The hope they'll turn it around with all of Big 3 playing disappeared fast.
lilfishi22 wrote:garrick wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:My view now is that if we're not playing great defense anyway, we might as well try and be elite at offense. It was mentioned that Vogel's defensive schemes are complex and needs time to really get across it but I kind of think we should just simplify it as much as possible and just go all out offensively. We're not going to win many games being middle of the pack defensively and outside the top 10 offensively so we might as well throw caution to the wind and do whatever we can get to get into the top 5 in offense even at the expense of being a bottom 10 defensive team.
I don't think Vogel is the kind of coach that would endorse and run that kind of system which is why I think we may need to just make a call on his Suns tenure. I highly doubt D'Antoni is keen to get back into coaching at 72 but if we're not playing great D we might as well hand the reigns to one of the most balls to the wall offense coach in NBA history.
I don't even know why Ishbia/Thomas chose Vogel as the head coach as he wasn't ever known as a great offensive coach and our roster doesn't suggest that we are going to be an elite defensive team anytime soon. It's just one of the many curious and disastrous decisions our glorious owner has made which is backfiring spectacularly.
I don't know but if I were to guess, the roster's biggest weakness on paper was defense. I think most expected us to be pretty damn good offensively just off the backs off the Big 3 (and the stats do show they are a very good 5 man unit) so it's a matter of shoring up our defense so that it's at least passable. The best man for that job is probably a defensive mind coach in Vogel and having an "offensive genius" in Young was suppose to maximise our offense. Neither of those are happening right now
Revived wrote:I think Mike Budenholzer would be an upgrade over Vogel. Budenholzer has some warts in playoffs basketball but at least he has an actual system and even with the warts, he won a chip.
Saberestar wrote:Revived wrote:I think Mike Budenholzer would be an upgrade over Vogel. Budenholzer has some warts in playoffs basketball but at least he has an actual system and even with the warts, he won a chip.
I am pretty sure that Ishbia is gonna give Vogel a few more games to see if this season can be saved but if that's not the case he will be fired around the trade deadline.
It's easier to fire the coaching staff than changing the core of this roster.
Yeah, Budenholzer makes sense because he is available, has already won a championship and he is from Arizona. He checks so many boxes.
AtheJ415 wrote:Saberestar wrote:Revived wrote:I think Mike Budenholzer would be an upgrade over Vogel. Budenholzer has some warts in playoffs basketball but at least he has an actual system and even with the warts, he won a chip.
I am pretty sure that Ishbia is gonna give Vogel a few more games to see if this season can be saved but if that's not the case he will be fired around the trade deadline.
It's easier to fire the coaching staff than changing the core of this roster.
Yeah, Budenholzer makes sense because he is available, has already won a championship and he is from Arizona. He checks so many boxes.
Budeholzer + D'Antoni
Slim Charless wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:Saberestar wrote:I am pretty sure that Ishbia is gonna give Vogel a few more games to see if this season can be saved but if that's not the case he will be fired around the trade deadline.
It's easier to fire the coaching staff than changing the core of this roster.
Yeah, Budenholzer makes sense because he is available, has already won a championship and he is from Arizona. He checks so many boxes.
Budeholzer + D'Antoni
You guys are wildly reaching and reactionary. Coach Bud should've lost the Finals to us, was a KD foot over the line non 3 pointer away from getting fired....and blew last years MIL team's chances to smithereens with endless dumb choices. I understand he had some very serious personal stuff to deal with. But you know what? Take the time off.
Coach Bud is no one's savior.
Qwigglez wrote:Golanator wrote:We might be in trouble. I don't know how you can fix this.
Is it possible to fix?
Suns put all of their eggs into one basket and now the eggs are rotten. We don't have any draft capital, we don't have any youth, we don't have any cap space. A new coach might be refreshing, but we aren't getting a Tyron Lue clone.
Suns seriously need to find it within themselves. The issue is, I don't recall any team just turning things around, and while I don't think the players will resent each other, they will simply just ask to be traded. There is no accountability anymore.
Slim Charless wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:Saberestar wrote:I am pretty sure that Ishbia is gonna give Vogel a few more games to see if this season can be saved but if that's not the case he will be fired around the trade deadline.
It's easier to fire the coaching staff than changing the core of this roster.
Yeah, Budenholzer makes sense because he is available, has already won a championship and he is from Arizona. He checks so many boxes.
Budeholzer + D'Antoni
You guys are wildly reaching and reactionary. Coach Bud should've lost the Finals to us, was a KD foot over the line non 3 pointer away from getting fired....and blew last years MIL team's chances to smithereens with endless dumb choices. I understand he had some very serious personal stuff to deal with. But you know what? Take the time off.
Coach Bud is no one's savior.
garrick wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:Vogel should be benching Nurkic at this point. His effort level to start this game was beyond inexcusable. Set an example to the rest of the team. Start Bol for a game.
Why isn't Azubuike getting any minutes?
You know that at least he isn't blowing a wide open layup or dunk under the rim like bum Nurkic.
