Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
zappenduster wrote:As there are rumours about Jarrett is on the trading block you guys think there might be any chance we could get him in a nurkic deal?
Bogyo wrote:Saberestar wrote:Iceman36 wrote:Just finished the press conference and man,I didnˋt realize BUD is such a great and classy guy! I was caught from his presence and emotion/enthusiasm from the first moment he hit the scene. His pure joy to be the coach of his „own“ beloved franchise was infectious and nearly brought me to tears. He is definetively the right guy for the next years to come, even if we have to rebuild. And the icing on the cake is, in his first presser he adressed the needs for this team, which we are discussing in here for months.
Mike looks skinny, focused and full of energy. The year off, though it was hard for him family wise, did him good.
He brought back my fire for my beloved franchise with just one appearance. Wow! I hope he does the same with his new players, because Basketball competence wise there is on discussion that BUD is one of the best.
Just so happy, we have him here now. He was my favorite before signing Vogel last season. Glad we ended the mistake Vogel after just one year. And I believe, other than many guys in here, coaching is the most important part for a franchise to be succesfull. Saw it with my other teams in the last 30 years…
Absolutely.
Budenholzer is a clear upgrade over Vogel as a HC and his roots make him the perfect fit as a Suns HC.
Should be a better coach than Vogel. HOWEVER, I do not see how the Snake or the Wannabekobe would like demanding coach who holds them accountable. Same goes for shooting more 3s (hooray for "middy"), or playing faster (hooray for "halfcourt iso"), or actually trying on defense (hooray for barking at the 12th guy not running back, when you do the same sht 9 out of 10 times). So its gonna be the same old sht all over again.
I just hope JJ will be fired first, then a competent GM will trade the two clowns, and coach Bud can actually do his job with players who listens.
bwgood77 wrote:Bogyo wrote:Saberestar wrote:Absolutely.
Budenholzer is a clear upgrade over Vogel as a HC and his roots make him the perfect fit as a Suns HC.
Should be a better coach than Vogel. HOWEVER, I do not see how the Snake or the Wannabekobe would like demanding coach who holds them accountable. Same goes for shooting more 3s (hooray for "middy"), or playing faster (hooray for "halfcourt iso"), or actually trying on defense (hooray for barking at the 12th guy not running back, when you do the same sht 9 out of 10 times). So its gonna be the same old sht all over again.
I just hope JJ will be fired first, then a competent GM will trade the two clowns, and coach Bud can actually do his job with players who listens.
The thing is, the expectations for what we have as a roster and the age and injury history of players, is just too high, especially when one thinks championships. Of course it's what we want and we do have star power, but a lot of it overlaps, and the best teams seem to have a bunch of great defenders, a multiple time MVP, super depth, youth and athleticism and just generally a team with great chemistry. I just worry we don't have the parts, and I think for a coach to get us to the semi finals is a pretty good feat, as being the top 4 in the west is pretty good as tough as the west is...anything past that is gravy. To go out in the semi finals, I don't think that would necessarily be the "fault" of the coach even if the coaching wasn't perfect. This more falls on our roster construction, lack of assets or options on what to do with the roster.
Brooklyn knew how to hamstring us for years so our picks would be better, because it happened to them.
My point is, I hope we don't make Bud another scape goat if we fall short of a championship, because no coach is bringing this squad a championship barring some massive injuries among other contenders and/or some major unexpected trade that somehow makes our team better.
garrick wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Bogyo wrote:
Should be a better coach than Vogel. HOWEVER, I do not see how the Snake or the Wannabekobe would like demanding coach who holds them accountable. Same goes for shooting more 3s (hooray for "middy"), or playing faster (hooray for "halfcourt iso"), or actually trying on defense (hooray for barking at the 12th guy not running back, when you do the same sht 9 out of 10 times). So its gonna be the same old sht all over again.
I just hope JJ will be fired first, then a competent GM will trade the two clowns, and coach Bud can actually do his job with players who listens.
The thing is, the expectations for what we have as a roster and the age and injury history of players, is just too high, especially when one thinks championships. Of course it's what we want and we do have star power, but a lot of it overlaps, and the best teams seem to have a bunch of great defenders, a multiple time MVP, super depth, youth and athleticism and just generally a team with great chemistry. I just worry we don't have the parts, and I think for a coach to get us to the semi finals is a pretty good feat, as being the top 4 in the west is pretty good as tough as the west is...anything past that is gravy. To go out in the semi finals, I don't think that would necessarily be the "fault" of the coach even if the coaching wasn't perfect. This more falls on our roster construction, lack of assets or options on what to do with the roster.
Brooklyn knew how to hamstring us for years so our picks would be better, because it happened to them.
My point is, I hope we don't make Bud another scape goat if we fall short of a championship, because no coach is bringing this squad a championship barring some massive injuries among other contenders and/or some major unexpected trade that somehow makes our team better.
Yeah the coach can't teach size or athleticism which is something we really lack.
Look at all the teams still in the playoffs, none of them are built like the Suns and they can all play a bit physical which is the way the league seems to be trending now.
It's like Ishbia is a few years late to the party and is trying to be like GSW not realizing that the days of all offense are gone in favor of allowing more physicality especially in the playoffs.
While other teams were cleverly adding size we decided to downgrade and get the least athletic center & worst finisher in the league. Teams like Dallas got upgrades like PJ Washingoton, Gafford. Pacers got Siakam, NY got OG Anunoby etc etc while Jones thinks we can go all small ball with Grayson Allen playing SF which is no longer going to cut it.
bwgood77 wrote:garrick wrote:bwgood77 wrote:
The thing is, the expectations for what we have as a roster and the age and injury history of players, is just too high, especially when one thinks championships. Of course it's what we want and we do have star power, but a lot of it overlaps, and the best teams seem to have a bunch of great defenders, a multiple time MVP, super depth, youth and athleticism and just generally a team with great chemistry. I just worry we don't have the parts, and I think for a coach to get us to the semi finals is a pretty good feat, as being the top 4 in the west is pretty good as tough as the west is...anything past that is gravy. To go out in the semi finals, I don't think that would necessarily be the "fault" of the coach even if the coaching wasn't perfect. This more falls on our roster construction, lack of assets or options on what to do with the roster.
Brooklyn knew how to hamstring us for years so our picks would be better, because it happened to them.
My point is, I hope we don't make Bud another scape goat if we fall short of a championship, because no coach is bringing this squad a championship barring some massive injuries among other contenders and/or some major unexpected trade that somehow makes our team better.
Yeah the coach can't teach size or athleticism which is something we really lack.
Look at all the teams still in the playoffs, none of them are built like the Suns and they can all play a bit physical which is the way the league seems to be trending now.
It's like Ishbia is a few years late to the party and is trying to be like GSW not realizing that the days of all offense are gone in favor of allowing more physicality especially in the playoffs.
While other teams were cleverly adding size we decided to downgrade and get the least athletic center & worst finisher in the league. Teams like Dallas got upgrades like PJ Washingoton, Gafford. Pacers got Siakam, NY got OG Anunoby etc etc while Jones thinks we can go all small ball with Grayson Allen playing SF which is no longer going to cut it.
Also, while watching the Mavs, I was thinking about leadership and instilling confidence in others on the floor, and how guys like Luka and Jokic impact their teammates. Boston if full of strong vocal vets as well. A guy like KD is just such a different type player than a guy like Luka, in that he is just a quiet reserved guy who is a great overall player, but not a leader like that when thinking of the very top players. He has even done the opposite of instilling confidence, like in Brooklyn when Harden and Kyrie were out and they were even playing well he was answering interviews with stuff like "well look who I'm playing with".....I can't see Jokic or Luka ever saying something like that.
Puff wrote:Another trade suggestion that just will not work is that of trading Nurkic. If we do trade him, we must get a big in return. In addition all the names mentioned make more than Nurkic and we cannot take anyone that has a bigger salary than Nurkic. If when we attach a draft pick that adds salary to the equation maybe we can trade him for a guy like Capella or Allen.
I think Nurkic could be useful in Bud's offense. Of course he needs to work on his 3 point shot. I view a Mix of Nurkic, Eubanks and a draft pick being rotated in and out to always have a fresh body on the court along with 18 fouls.
garrick wrote:bwgood77 wrote:garrick wrote:
Yeah the coach can't teach size or athleticism which is something we really lack.
Look at all the teams still in the playoffs, none of them are built like the Suns and they can all play a bit physical which is the way the league seems to be trending now.
It's like Ishbia is a few years late to the party and is trying to be like GSW not realizing that the days of all offense are gone in favor of allowing more physicality especially in the playoffs.
While other teams were cleverly adding size we decided to downgrade and get the least athletic center & worst finisher in the league. Teams like Dallas got upgrades like PJ Washingoton, Gafford. Pacers got Siakam, NY got OG Anunoby etc etc while Jones thinks we can go all small ball with Grayson Allen playing SF which is no longer going to cut it.
Also, while watching the Mavs, I was thinking about leadership and instilling confidence in others on the floor, and how guys like Luka and Jokic impact their teammates. Boston if full of strong vocal vets as well. A guy like KD is just such a different type player than a guy like Luka, in that he is just a quiet reserved guy who is a great overall player, but not a leader like that when thinking of the very top players. He has even done the opposite of instilling confidence, like in Brooklyn when Harden and Kyrie were out and they were even playing well he was answering interviews with stuff like "well look who I'm playing with".....I can't see Jokic or Luka ever saying something like that.
Yeah and KD has terrible body language when he isn't happy with the way the game is developing.
He'll often sit away from the team during timeouts and isn't engaged in the huddle with the coach, if he doesn't want to lead by being vocal fine but don't kill the mood with your drama and selfishness.
Next season I think the only player that can really be a leader is Beal, he's shown some of that be doing and saying the right things off the court but I don't know if he has the same kind of influence he once had because he's no longer a player that's near the top of the league in scoring and his best years are behind him.
Booker I don't know if he has it in him to be a leader, we've also seen him bitch at his teammates for messing up plays but he makes mental gaffes himself quite often so I don't think he is in any position to be calling out teammates for blown defensive assignments.
His nonchalant comments after losses are also not a good sign, if you lose 2 straight games you shouldn't be "chilling", at least own up to your failings and take responsibility for letting your team down as one of the top paid players on the team.
bwgood77 wrote:zappenduster wrote:As there are rumours about Jarrett is on the trading block you guys think there might be any chance we could get him in a nurkic deal?
Funny thing is when I start thinking of solid perfect Cs to replace Nurkic, he always pops into my mind, and then I think "why would Cleveland do that?' and then move on. If there was some way for us to get him, we definitely should.
Qwigglez wrote:So ideally, I think we should hope that EG, Okogie, Lee, and Eubanks all opt-in for the 2024-25 season. That gives the Suns roughly $12 million in expiring contracts.
David Roddy has a club option for the 2025-26 season so his $2.9 million for 2024-25 season could be treated as a expiring contract as well.
Bol Bol returning would be optimal IMO, and I think he'd get tremendous use from Bud as head coach, so I'm hoping he comes back. Royce O'Neal I hope returns too, mostly because the Suns are already over the cap and his contract would likely be in the $12-16 million range per year range. I would also want to try to nab Mo Bamba, who is another player I think would benefit playing under coach Bud. I'd move Nurkic to the bench.
Saberestar wrote:
dremill24 wrote:Puff wrote:Another trade suggestion that just will not work is that of trading Nurkic. If we do trade him, we must get a big in return. In addition all the names mentioned make more than Nurkic and we cannot take anyone that has a bigger salary than Nurkic. If when we attach a draft pick that adds salary to the equation maybe we can trade him for a guy like Capella or Allen.
I think Nurkic could be useful in Bud's offense. Of course he needs to work on his 3 point shot. I view a Mix of Nurkic, Eubanks and a draft pick being rotated in and out to always have a fresh body on the court along with 18 fouls.
So...I agree that while Nurkic is imperfect, there are things he brings that nobody else on the roster does. And moving him without getting another big may exacerbate those types of problems.
The thing I cant get past is this general sentiment here and all over the place in conversation like if you move someone like a center, you MUST get a center back in that trade as if after this trade your roster will be locked and you will have no way of acquiring one. I see it all over the trade board too. "If we trade X player then who is going to play Y position?" Its really odd...
Like think about it logically...why is a team going to trade you their better center for your worse one? Would you trade your better center for someone else's worse one? Distressed assets notwithstanding (e.g., Ayton), theres usually more to it. You trade something you have for something you dont, not something you have for the same thing. Of course you're going to have a hard time trading your center and getting a better one back. If you move your center, you have the best chance at an agreeable swap with someone who feels they need one of his talents and they'll be looking to send out something(s) that is not a center, because they otherwise wouldnt be in the market for one. So...you could move your center for something else you need and *gasp* find yourself another center in a separate transaction. Of course there are situations where a rebuiliding team will take a player at a similar position to the one they're sending out as salary filler if they're getting other assets, but those arent always easy to find and the assets arent always available for use.
Now...in the Suns specific situation, that is all quite difficult, and those swaps may not be out there for their players with the team's limitations. So it may in fact be least detrimental to just keep him. But this concept in general needs to be better recognized, I think.
bwgood77 wrote:zappenduster wrote:As there are rumours about Jarrett is on the trading block you guys think there might be any chance we could get him in a nurkic deal?
Funny thing is when I start thinking of solid perfect Cs to replace Nurkic, he always pops into my mind, and then I think "why would Cleveland do that?' and then move on. If there was some way for us to get him, we definitely should.
Qwigglez wrote:bwgood77 wrote:zappenduster wrote:As there are rumours about Jarrett is on the trading block you guys think there might be any chance we could get him in a nurkic deal?
Funny thing is when I start thinking of solid perfect Cs to replace Nurkic, he always pops into my mind, and then I think "why would Cleveland do that?' and then move on. If there was some way for us to get him, we definitely should.
What do you think of Mo Bamba? Had a couple of down years after playing in Orlando, but in 2021-22 season he averaged 10.6 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, shooting 38% from 3 (4 attempts per game).
Most importantly if the Suns did get Bamba, we get to enjoy this wonderful gif again.Spoiler:
Qwigglez wrote:bwgood77 wrote:zappenduster wrote:As there are rumours about Jarrett is on the trading block you guys think there might be any chance we could get him in a nurkic deal?
Funny thing is when I start thinking of solid perfect Cs to replace Nurkic, he always pops into my mind, and then I think "why would Cleveland do that?' and then move on. If there was some way for us to get him, we definitely should.
What do you think of Mo Bamba? Had a couple of down years after playing in Orlando, but in 2021-22 season he averaged 10.6 points, 8.1 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, shooting 38% from 3 (4 attempts per game).
Most importantly if the Suns did get Bamba, we get to enjoy this wonderful gif again.Spoiler:
As for the defense, Bamba has been predictably lacking versatility in the NBA. He’s a Drop coverage big who uses his 7’10” wingspan to alter shots near the rim. That lack of versatility or even perfection of his angles presents some challenges against smart guards or well-prepared teams. There are certain matchups that simply aren’t good ones for Bamba, thus limiting his minutes and role.
Watch enough Bamba possessions and you'll see a recurring theme: he defends well initially, but his man is a constant offensive rebounding threat. He's not quite quick-twitch enough to fulfill both roles, patrolling the paint to contest a shot and negating his man. Funneling everything toward him doesn’t yield the same results you’d hope.
sunsbg wrote:I have seen two comparisons of draft prospects to Jarret Allen(Missi and Ware). Now if Jones is able to figure out who is closer to him, forgets about 'we don't need a 7th grader' strategy and gets one of those, he may actually look competent at his job.
Puff wrote:bwgood77 wrote:zappenduster wrote:As there are rumours about Jarrett is on the trading block you guys think there might be any chance we could get him in a nurkic deal?
Funny thing is when I start thinking of solid perfect Cs to replace Nurkic, he always pops into my mind, and then I think "why would Cleveland do that?' and then move on. If there was some way for us to get him, we definitely should.
I would not mind him either, however Nurk makes 18.125 Mil and Allen makes 20.0 Mil. According to my knowledge we cannot takes a player/players contracts for more than we send out. We also cannot send out more than one player in any trade. I think we can add draft picks to sweeten the deal.
We are basically stuck with what we have. That is why we really need to draft someone this off season. That is really the best way to upgrade this roster. Based on JJ recent selections that is probably not a viable solution either.
It is going to be up to BUD to work his magic with this roster.
