Sammy better be in the top 3 for DP of the Y!

[76erinSJ]

For the month of December Sammy averaged 10.6 points, 10.8 boards, 3.4 blocks while shooting .553 from the floor and .717 from the line. He is now averaging 11.3 points, 9.5 boards and 2.8 blocks. If Sammy does not get a serious look at DPOY then this league is a joke.

[Nofx8881]

i think more goes into DPOY other than blocks.

[76erinSJ]

When Sammy is in the game he changes the entire gameplan of the other team Offensively. When we have Booth or Smith in there teams drive the basket like they are doing layup drills. I can count how many players on my hand in this league have that ability.

[Sixerscan]

i think more goes into DPOY other than blocks.

I dunno. How do you explain last year?

[Sixerscan]

When Sammy is in the game he changes the entire gameplan of the other team Offensively. When we have Booth or Smith in there teams drive the basket like they are doing layup drills. I can count how many players on my hand in this league have that ability.

Having crappy backups is an ability?

[76erinSJ]

Thats all Camby did last year.

[Stanford]

And Camby should not have won.

[L-Burna89]

Well...I do believe there is some difference between 9.5 rebs(6.3 def)/2.7 blks/0.3 stls and 11.7 rebs(9.3 def)/3.3 blks/1.2 stls(Camby's stats last season). If you want to make the argument that Camby won the award simply because of his stats, go for it...but Sammy's stats don't even really compare anyway.


But then again, those who assume that Camby's impact on the defensive end in minimal, and that he is just a weakside shot blocker and nothing more, then id offer this analysis of what players in the league truly have the biggest impact on the defensive end.....

And if we're going to look at how the defense falls apart when a player doesn't play, we might as well switch some of the attention to Kobe as LAs defense falls apart more when he's off court (-11.2 points per 100 possessions) than Boston's D does when KG sits (-9.2). Actually if you're going to use the points per 100 possessions to show defensive impact, Kobe's is bigger than any player in the running for the MVP, including KG.

Lakers defensive efficiency is worse than the worst team in the league (that would be the Knicks) by a good margin when Kobe is off the floor, and is better than the team ranked 4th (Hornets) with him on the floor. Don't know how much more you can ask for if you go by defensive efficiency as a way to measure defensive impact

LA's defense decreases by 12.2 points per 100 possessions when Kobe is on the bench, while the offense increases by 5.3 points per 100 possessions,

As a little follow up to the defensive impact argument, I've looked into on/off court impact in eFG% too. The leaders among players that play at least 50% are:

1. Kobe Bryant -5.1%
2. Marcus Camby -4.4%
3. Pau Gasol -4.3%
4. Kevin Garnett -4.1%

I think it's interesting how just about every shotblocker in the league has a good impact here, and few guards have good impact. It's very noteworthy that a guard is on top of the chart.

The leaders in on/off impact in defensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) were:

1. Kobe Bryant -12.2
2. Josh Smith -9.1
x. Marcus Camby -8.3
x. Kevin Garnett -7.8 (can't remember all the players in between, but I know Kobe and Josh were 1 and 2).

So, I feel very confident when I say that Kobe is my DPOY at this point in the season followed by KG and Marcus Camby. Biggest impact in both eFG% and defensive efficiency is pretty big, especially for a guard. No stat is perfect unless you have the right context, and these are no different, but they show a strong indication none the less.

Not only is Camby a beast in the major individual defensive stat categories(rebs/blks/stls), but he also has one of the most substantial affects on the overall defense. Denver was #8 in the league last year in defensive efficiency when Camby won the award with the stats I listed in the first part of this post.....and now Denver is #2 in the league in defensive efficiency and Camby is putting up even crazier numbers(14.4 rebs(11.2 defensive), 3.7 blks, 1 stl.

[PhillyRocks1]

You mention Denver, where do the Sixers fall in? I know they give up the 6 less points in the league.

BTW, no kidding Camby has those numbers considering they have Iverson and Melo that is all he has to do. You have to see the difference.

[dbodner]

i think more should go into DPOY other than blocks.

fixed.

[PrimeTime21]

Well...I do believe there is some difference between 9.5 rebs(6.3 def)/2.7 blks/0.3 stls and 11.7 rebs(9.3 def)/3.3 blks/1.2 stls(Camby's stats last season). If you want to make the argument that Camby won the award simply because of his stats, go for it...but Sammy's stats don't even really compare anyway.


But then again, those who assume that Camby's impact on the defensive end in minimal, and that he is just a weakside shot blocker and nothing more, then id offer this analysis of what players in the league truly have the biggest impact on the defensive end.....

And if we're going to look at how the defense falls apart when a player doesn't play, we might as well switch some of the attention to Kobe as LAs defense falls apart more when he's off court (-11.2 points per 100 possessions) than Boston's D does when KG sits (-9.2). Actually if you're going to use the points per 100 possessions to show defensive impact, Kobe's is bigger than any player in the running for the MVP, including KG.

Lakers defensive efficiency is worse than the worst team in the league (that would be the Knicks) by a good margin when Kobe is off the floor, and is better than the team ranked 4th (Hornets) with him on the floor. Don't know how much more you can ask for if you go by defensive efficiency as a way to measure defensive impact

LA's defense decreases by 12.2 points per 100 possessions when Kobe is on the bench, while the offense increases by 5.3 points per 100 possessions,

As a little follow up to the defensive impact argument, I've looked into on/off court impact in eFG% too. The leaders among players that play at least 50% are:

1. Kobe Bryant -5.1%
2. Marcus Camby -4.4%
3. Pau Gasol -4.3%
4. Kevin Garnett -4.1%

I think it's interesting how just about every shotblocker in the league has a good impact here, and few guards have good impact. It's very noteworthy that a guard is on top of the chart.

The leaders in on/off impact in defensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) were:

1. Kobe Bryant -12.2
2. Josh Smith -9.1
x. Marcus Camby -8.3
x. Kevin Garnett -7.8 (can't remember all the players in between, but I know Kobe and Josh were 1 and 2).

So, I feel very confident when I say that Kobe is my DPOY at this point in the season followed by KG and Marcus Camby. Biggest impact in both eFG% and defensive efficiency is pretty big, especially for a guard. No stat is perfect unless you have the right context, and these are no different, but they show a strong indication none the less.

Not only is Camby a beast in the major individual defensive stat categories(rebs/blks/stls), but he also has one of the most substantial affects on the overall defense. Denver was #8 in the league last year in defensive efficiency when Camby won the award with the stats I listed in the first part of this post.....and now Denver is #2 in the league in defensive efficiency and Camby is putting up even crazier numbers(14.4 rebs(11.2 defensive), 3.7 blks, 1 stl.

It's quite hilarious that you fail to mention that Denver has one of the higher PPG against in the league...and always probably will, that team plays no defense they are like the Suns. No one should win DPOY from Denver!

[The Sixer Fixer]

Camby does way more defensivley than just block shots. Do some of you people even watch games outside of Philly?

It's amazing what he can do defensively for that team considering the 4 other starters don't even know what the word defense means.

[dbodner]

-= original quote snipped =-



It's quite hilarious that you fail to mention that Denver has one of the higher PPG against in the league...and always probably will, that team plays no defense they are like the Suns. No one should win DPOY from Denver!

ppg is highly reliant on pace, at which denver plays a very fast one. they're 7th in the league in opponents fg%, and are one of the better defensive teams in the league.

[wow444]

Sam is a terrible defensive rebounder and seldom gets a tough rebound. He doesn't box out. Anyone notice that the guy he guarded in the Jazz game had a season high in points? Call me old school but Sammy doesn't deserve to be on the All Defensive team let alone DPOY.

[STChaser]

Sam is a terrible defensive rebounder and seldom gets a tough rebound. He doesn't box out. Anyone notice that the guy he guarded in the Jazz game had a season high in points? Call me old school but Sammy doesn't deserve to be on the All Defensive team let alone DPOY.

That "guy" he guarded in the Jazz game was Okur, a VERY unorthodox 5 in that he was getting most of his points from beyond the 3 point arc. There aren't that many 7 footers who can nail 3's the way Okur can.

Sam was stuck trying to stay close to the basket for rebounds / blocks (which is where he's normally most effective) while simultaneously trying to defend Okur on the perimeter. If this team had a legitimate PF who could defend in the paint, I don't think you would have seen Okur going for his career high because it would have meant that Sam could leave the paint to guard him knowing that he had insurance under the rim. At the moment, without Sam guarding the basket, this team is completely exposed.

The sooner this team gets themselves a legitimate PF who can defend, score, and rebound, the better off Sam (and the entire team for that matter) will be. Right now, we're playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end and when this team goes up against opponents with good 4's and 5's (as is the case with Utah), it's basically the same story on the defensive end. This team needs more balance in the frontcourt. All things considered, I think Sam has been doing a more than admirable job.

STChaser

[Sixerscan]

Well...I do believe there is some difference between 9.5 rebs(6.3 def)/2.7 blks/0.3 stls and 11.7 rebs(9.3 def)/3.3 blks/1.2 stls(Camby's stats last season). If you want to make the argument that Camby won the award simply because of his stats, go for it...but Sammy's stats don't even really compare anyway.


But then again, those who assume that Camby's impact on the defensive end in minimal, and that he is just a weakside shot blocker and nothing more, then id offer this analysis of what players in the league truly have the biggest impact on the defensive end.....

And if we're going to look at how the defense falls apart when a player doesn't play, we might as well switch some of the attention to Kobe as LAs defense falls apart more when he's off court (-11.2 points per 100 possessions) than Boston's D does when KG sits (-9.2). Actually if you're going to use the points per 100 possessions to show defensive impact, Kobe's is bigger than any player in the running for the MVP, including KG.

Lakers defensive efficiency is worse than the worst team in the league (that would be the Knicks) by a good margin when Kobe is off the floor, and is better than the team ranked 4th (Hornets) with him on the floor. Don't know how much more you can ask for if you go by defensive efficiency as a way to measure defensive impact

LA's defense decreases by 12.2 points per 100 possessions when Kobe is on the bench, while the offense increases by 5.3 points per 100 possessions,

As a little follow up to the defensive impact argument, I've looked into on/off court impact in eFG% too. The leaders among players that play at least 50% are:

1. Kobe Bryant -5.1%
2. Marcus Camby -4.4%
3. Pau Gasol -4.3%
4. Kevin Garnett -4.1%

I think it's interesting how just about every shotblocker in the league has a good impact here, and few guards have good impact. It's very noteworthy that a guard is on top of the chart.

The leaders in on/off impact in defensive efficiency (points per 100 possessions) were:

1. Kobe Bryant -12.2
2. Josh Smith -9.1
x. Marcus Camby -8.3
x. Kevin Garnett -7.8 (can't remember all the players in between, but I know Kobe and Josh were 1 and 2).

So, I feel very confident when I say that Kobe is my DPOY at this point in the season followed by KG and Marcus Camby. Biggest impact in both eFG% and defensive efficiency is pretty big, especially for a guard. No stat is perfect unless you have the right context, and these are no different, but they show a strong indication none the less.

Not only is Camby a beast in the major individual defensive stat categories(rebs/blks/stls), but he also has one of the most substantial affects on the overall defense. Denver was #8 in the league last year in defensive efficiency when Camby won the award with the stats I listed in the first part of this post.....and now Denver is #2 in the league in defensive efficiency and Camby is putting up even crazier numbers(14.4 rebs(11.2 defensive), 3.7 blks, 1 stl.

What do stats from this year have to do with last year? Yeah, Camby is having a great year this year, if he won DPOY I wouldn't have as big of a problem as last year.

But he won the award last year, and Denver gave up more points per 100 possessions with him on the court than off it, and also gave up a higher eFG%.

[Sixerscan]

-= original quote snipped =-



ppg is highly reliant on pace, at which denver plays a very fast one. they're 7th in the league in opponents fg%, and are one of the better defensive teams in the league.

And the 4th fewest points per possession.

Looking at PPG in basketball as a way to determine who's good at offense or defense is like using runs in baseball, only if some teams played 11 inning games and others played 7 inning games.

[The Sixer Fixer]

I hate it when people spew all these different stats to evaluate a players defensive ability. IMO you can tell very little about a player by just looking at their stats. You need to watch them play, understand what they do, understand how they impact the game....stats very often tell only a small part of the story.

You want to evaluate Opponent FG% when that player is on the court or off? Don't give me a stat for that....way more things go into why you see a discrepancy from 1 player to the next. You have to evaluate how good/bad that player's backup is (example: take Sam vs. whoever....makes Sam look that much better than he is). Who does that player typically share the court with (do his teammates suck on D or are they good)? There's just way too many factors that go into why FG% is higher/lower when a single player is on the court. A lot of it can be the team defensive philosophy too. Look at the Sixers, they feel it's more important to collapse down into the lane and prevent penetration than it is to give up an open 3. They might have a stat for opponents 3 pt FG% or total 3's give up...is it the players fault that they don't play man D out on the perimeter and give up those open 3's?

All I get back to is watch players....you can easily tell who is good on D and who isn't by watching them. You can tell who really makes an impact and who doesn't. Camby is clearly an impact D guy. As is Kobe for a guard. Kobe has the ability to man up and cause all kinds of headaches for a player. His intensity/focus on D is unmatched when they need a stop. Sure he doesn't play that way on every possession, but no one in the league does.

[Sixerscan]

Yes you have to evaluate any statistic for context. Duh. Who said you didn't? The "bad backup" thing is a problem for any oncourt/offcourt stat. (The "philosophy" thing isn't as big of a deal because it's generally constant whether or not a single player is on the floor)

On a side note, do you really think it's a coincidence that the majority of people with good defensive stats are the people who many consider good defenders?

I watched Camby play plenty last year and I disagree that he was at all worthy of the award he got. When they played the Spurs he didn't even cover Duncan, Nene did.

Haven't seen him much this year, maybe he's playing better.

[wow444]

I think Sam has been doing a more than admirable job.

That is a bit of a reach and even so does not qualify for DPOY.