How long are we going to go with zero offensive contribution from our PF spot? Evans has proven he's an asset on the boards but defensively and offensively, he leaves much to be desired. And while I think Jason Smith is going to be adequate down the line, it does appear that he's hit a wall of sorts. It would seem that now would be the perfect time to bring Hill back. He was touted as having a post game and was viewed as one of the more impressive rookies during preseason. And when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, which is our case right now at PF. I think it's activation time.
STChaser
Isn't It About Time For Some Herb Hill
Moderators: HartfordWhalers, BullyKing, Foshan, sixers hoops, Sixerscan
Isn't It About Time For Some Herb Hill
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
-
ankle420breaker
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,947
- And1: 1,991
- Joined: Sep 21, 2005
- Location: South Jersey
Where does Herb stand as far as his health is concerned? If he's game ready, then I absolutely concur that he should get tossed into the mix. I don't expect his contributions to be mind blowing by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to see how the kid can handle himself in the league. He does own a solid touch around the basket... probably better than any big on the team right now. We can certainly spare some of Evans minutes and see what Herbie is made of, but again, only if he's back to game form.
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
It was my understanding that he was taking part in full practices at this point. They just weren't in a rush to activate him. I'm not sure I agree with that logic considering that we don't have much at PF. I would think that Stefanski would want to see him play as well from a trade-value perspective. You never know if another team might want him thrown in as part of a package.
STChaser
STChaser
-
ankle420breaker
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,947
- And1: 1,991
- Joined: Sep 21, 2005
- Location: South Jersey
Cassidy wrote:I don't think he will be anything more than the end of a bench type player. What is the white hype Shav doing these days? Not that he is much better. But it tells you things are not good when your looking at unproven 2nd round picks to start.
Nobody is inferring he should be a starter, but if he's healthy he should see some floor time. Of course he's unproven, he's yet to play a minute in the league. He'll obviously start off as a deep big off the bench, but we stand nothing to lose with an abundance of the PF minutes being shared by Evans and Smith.
-
The76thDegree
- Starter
- Posts: 2,304
- And1: 102
- Joined: May 11, 2006
-
ankle420breaker
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,947
- And1: 1,991
- Joined: Sep 21, 2005
- Location: South Jersey
-
The Guilty Party
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 17,697
- And1: 8
- Joined: Aug 26, 2002
- Location: Zoo Jersey
-
Re: Hill
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Re: Hill
mick128 wrote:He's the 15th man on the team, as for him getting time, in a word, "why"?
Hill looked the best out of all the rookies during the preseason. That includes Jason Smith and Thaddeus Young. If Young can log minutes at a position in which we have a logjam, then surely Hill should be logging minutes at a position in which we are incredibly weak. True, Smith looked decent at the 4. But he also appears to have hit a wall as of late - and remember, Hill was more impressive than even Smith during the preseason. So if Smith is getting minutes, why the hell shouldn't Hill be getting some?
If you need more reasons that that (which you shouldn't), then consider that Hill is known for his shotblocking and post moves - two things that our current starting PF completely lacks. And unlike Evans, Hill is a legit 6'10 with huge wingspan (something Jason Smith lacks). Couple Hill's strengths next to Sam and we may have something here. And even if we end up disappointed, at least we gave it a shot. That's more than can be said if we were to just assume he's the "15th man on the team" and let him rot on the bench.
STChaser
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
TGP,
What else am I supposed to use to evaluate him? Why have a preseason at all then? One of the objectives of preseason is to allow the coaching staff, etc. to see how each player looks. And it wasn't just his preseason that I based my opinion on Hill. It was also draft reports and his college stats. Until I see him in game situations, that's all I have to go off.
As for the knee injury, every account that I've read about his injury said that it was minor cartilage damage and would not affect his game. If it was more severe, I think he would have been cut from the squad.
STChaser
What else am I supposed to use to evaluate him? Why have a preseason at all then? One of the objectives of preseason is to allow the coaching staff, etc. to see how each player looks. And it wasn't just his preseason that I based my opinion on Hill. It was also draft reports and his college stats. Until I see him in game situations, that's all I have to go off.
As for the knee injury, every account that I've read about his injury said that it was minor cartilage damage and would not affect his game. If it was more severe, I think he would have been cut from the squad.
STChaser
-
The Guilty Party
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 17,697
- And1: 8
- Joined: Aug 26, 2002
- Location: Zoo Jersey
-
STChaser wrote:TGP,
What else am I supposed to use to evaluate him? Why have a preseason at all then? The point of it is so that the coaching staff, etc. can see how each player looks.
As for the knee injury, every account that I've read about his injury said that it was minor cartilage damage and would not affect his game. If it was more severe, I think he would have been cut from the squad.
STChaser
As I've said all along about your boy... I expect little to nothing from him and wouldn't be shocked if he dressed for less than 10 games this season. He's the last man on this roster and isn't going to get minutes over Reggie Evans or Jason Smith or Thaddeus Young.
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
And as I said before TGP, if Smith is logging minutes at PF and Hill looked better than Smith in preseason, then why on earth would you make the statement that you "wouldn't be shocked if he dresses for less than 10 games this season"? That's antilogic.
And consider this; Stefanski is already on record for saying that he wanted Cheeks to use the younger players more. And Stefanski is also going to want to see what Hill brings to the table, what his possible trade value (if any) might be in the case that he's bundled in a package deal. In light of these two factors, your statement about him logging little playing time seems quite absurd.
Again, also consider that right now we're starting a one dimensional, undersized PF, and it makes it even more likely that Hill will get some minutes. It's not as if the guys ahead of him are Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand for god's sake. Smith and Evans are backups themselves. Neither have locked down the 4 spot and Smith seems to have hit the rookie wall. Randolph's injury was much worse than Hill's and Amudson is a poor man's Mark Madsen with no real long term prospect of being here. And while Cheeks may use Young at the 4, the truth is that he's better suited to play SF. And fact that our rookie SF is getting minutes at the 4 is a testament to how management feels about Randolph and Amundson.
STChaser
And consider this; Stefanski is already on record for saying that he wanted Cheeks to use the younger players more. And Stefanski is also going to want to see what Hill brings to the table, what his possible trade value (if any) might be in the case that he's bundled in a package deal. In light of these two factors, your statement about him logging little playing time seems quite absurd.
Again, also consider that right now we're starting a one dimensional, undersized PF, and it makes it even more likely that Hill will get some minutes. It's not as if the guys ahead of him are Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand for god's sake. Smith and Evans are backups themselves. Neither have locked down the 4 spot and Smith seems to have hit the rookie wall. Randolph's injury was much worse than Hill's and Amudson is a poor man's Mark Madsen with no real long term prospect of being here. And while Cheeks may use Young at the 4, the truth is that he's better suited to play SF. And fact that our rookie SF is getting minutes at the 4 is a testament to how management feels about Randolph and Amundson.
STChaser
-
bebopdeluxe
- RealGM
- Posts: 10,853
- And1: 3,893
- Joined: Jun 27, 2002
- Location: philly
TGP:
Don't think I agree with your assessment there, bro...while I am not expecting Hill to come in here and be a savior, I think that (by default) it is more important to give Hill time than Amundson or Ollie...or even Shav, for that matter (my sense is that Shav might simply be done). A guy who is a legit 6-10, long arms, with some low-post offensive moves and a demonstrated ability to raise the level of his game dramatically once given the chance and minutes (Big East Most Improved Player award-winner)...yes?
On this roster, there are several players that I would give fewer minutes to than Hill once he gets the green light to play.
Don't think I agree with your assessment there, bro...while I am not expecting Hill to come in here and be a savior, I think that (by default) it is more important to give Hill time than Amundson or Ollie...or even Shav, for that matter (my sense is that Shav might simply be done). A guy who is a legit 6-10, long arms, with some low-post offensive moves and a demonstrated ability to raise the level of his game dramatically once given the chance and minutes (Big East Most Improved Player award-winner)...yes?
On this roster, there are several players that I would give fewer minutes to than Hill once he gets the green light to play.
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
bebodeluxe,
Because I do like what Smith has shown and would not want to cut down his minutes, I'd probably give Smith backup minutes at the 5 (instead of Booth) and give Hill backup minutes to Evans at the 4. I'd let Hill and Evans battle it out for the starting role. I'd also think about sliding Thad into the starting lineup in place of Carney at the 3 and start Iguodala at the 2. I'd alternate minutes at the 1 between Williams and Miller. Lately, too many teams have taken advantage of Lou's size mismatch. I'm not a fan of Cheek's undersized backcourt.
PG: Miller / Williams
SG: Iguodala / Green / Carney
SF: Thaddeus / Carney or Giricek
PF: Evans or Hill (let them fight it out)
C: Sam / Smith
STChaser
Because I do like what Smith has shown and would not want to cut down his minutes, I'd probably give Smith backup minutes at the 5 (instead of Booth) and give Hill backup minutes to Evans at the 4. I'd let Hill and Evans battle it out for the starting role. I'd also think about sliding Thad into the starting lineup in place of Carney at the 3 and start Iguodala at the 2. I'd alternate minutes at the 1 between Williams and Miller. Lately, too many teams have taken advantage of Lou's size mismatch. I'm not a fan of Cheek's undersized backcourt.
PG: Miller / Williams
SG: Iguodala / Green / Carney
SF: Thaddeus / Carney or Giricek
PF: Evans or Hill (let them fight it out)
C: Sam / Smith
STChaser
-
The Sixer Fixer
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 4,821
- And1: 60
- Joined: Jan 09, 2007
-
I think Hill will get some time, but it won't happen until probably after the all-star break at the earliest. I'm sure the Sixers want to use Evans right now for 2 reasons...
1 - He gives us the best opportunity to win games right now (as sad as that sounds). Unfortunately he is the most consistent 4 option we have. Smith hasn't looked good over the last 10 games or so.
2 - They are going to want to give Evans as many minutes as possible to "showcase" him for possible trades. I think his value around the league would go down if we benched him for guys who have done nothign yet...like Hill, Randolph, Amundson and Smith. Sixers will want that value as high as can be right now.
One of 2 things should happen that will open up minutes for the young guys as the season wears on. Either they will fall out of the playoff race (may happen during the next 11 games or so) or Evans will traded. As bad as Evans is offensively, I do believe he gives us the best chance to win games right now.
I think you just have to deal with the fact that guys like Evans and Willie are going to get the bulk of the minutes at their positions until the trade deadline has passed. Once that passes, if they are still here, I would expect the young kids to get more time (unless we are still within a few games of a playoff spot).
1 - He gives us the best opportunity to win games right now (as sad as that sounds). Unfortunately he is the most consistent 4 option we have. Smith hasn't looked good over the last 10 games or so.
2 - They are going to want to give Evans as many minutes as possible to "showcase" him for possible trades. I think his value around the league would go down if we benched him for guys who have done nothign yet...like Hill, Randolph, Amundson and Smith. Sixers will want that value as high as can be right now.
One of 2 things should happen that will open up minutes for the young guys as the season wears on. Either they will fall out of the playoff race (may happen during the next 11 games or so) or Evans will traded. As bad as Evans is offensively, I do believe he gives us the best chance to win games right now.
I think you just have to deal with the fact that guys like Evans and Willie are going to get the bulk of the minutes at their positions until the trade deadline has passed. Once that passes, if they are still here, I would expect the young kids to get more time (unless we are still within a few games of a playoff spot).
-
STChaser
- Starter
- Posts: 2,290
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jan 25, 2006
SendEm,
That knee surgery was minor. It was a torn meniscus (cartilage) repair and all accounts were that it would not harm his game or be career threatening. In fact, Hill didn't even know he'd damaged the knee initially. I don't see this as a factor in his minutes. From what I've read, it's more about getting him back into "game shape".
STChaser
That knee surgery was minor. It was a torn meniscus (cartilage) repair and all accounts were that it would not harm his game or be career threatening. In fact, Hill didn't even know he'd damaged the knee initially. I don't see this as a factor in his minutes. From what I've read, it's more about getting him back into "game shape".
STChaser