Iguodala's Turnovers.

[SendEm]

He is not a team player and I think he makes everyone around him worse. Yes I am talking about AI2

You.....you can't be serious. How is he not a team player? If I ever had a concern about Igoudola it was him being TOO MUCH of a team player. I worried he wouldn't step up and take over, but he's shown glimpses of it.

I used to have my doubts about him ever being a good "THE MAN". But the past month he's letting the game come to him more, and it's REALLY paying off.

I always thought he had tremendous skill, but would be best suited as a 2nd fiddle. Now.........not so sure.

Definitly a pleasent suprise to see him progressing rather than regressing.

Not so sure?
Iggy is on what is called a "hot streak" it happens several times during an NBA season for players I believe Kobe put together a hot streak of like a million 50 point games in a row, even Ben Gordan is currently on a hot streak averaging 29ppg over the last 4 games. Iggy is what you have seen of him so far over his CAREER, a few games will not turn him from his 3rd fiddle status to a #1 just off of a few games.

[eyeatoma]

^^

He averaged 20-6-6 during the post iverson era last season. Thats about 60 games...far from a hot streak...

I think you can classify the first 20 games this season, as a SLUMP...and now, he's playing like he can...

[Sandalf42]

Sandalf42 wrote:
Quote:
He is not a team player and I think he makes everyone around him worse. Yes I am talking about AI2


You.....you can't be serious. How is he not a team player? If I ever had a concern about Igoudola it was him being TOO MUCH of a team player. I worried he wouldn't step up and take over, but he's shown glimpses of it.

I used to have my doubts about him ever being a good "THE MAN". But the past month he's letting the game come to him more, and it's REALLY paying off.

I always thought he had tremendous skill, but would be best suited as a 2nd fiddle. Now.........not so sure.

Definitly a pleasent suprise to see him progressing rather than regressing.


Not so sure?
Iggy is on what is called a "hot streak" it happens several times during an NBA season for players I believe Kobe put together a hot streak of like a million 50 point games in a row, even Ben Gordan is currently on a hot streak averaging 29ppg over the last 4 games. Iggy is what you have seen of him so far over his CAREER, a few games will not turn him from his 3rd fiddle status to a #1 just off of a few games.

Don't get me wrong, I still lean towards him being the 2nd man, but I'm just sayin' now it isn't unreasonable for him to become "The Man".

Of course I'm not saying he's already cully proven himself, he justs looks very VERY promising. He's got a ways to go.

Before the season, I didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell of him progressing the way he has (And I'm a HUGE Iggy fan).

[tk76]

SendEm, I basically take the reverse spin on your entire premise about Dala's role. You can be a "number 1" and not be the leading scorer on your team. Shaq, Nash, Kidd, Majic and many other stars have all led teams without being the leading score.r

He has been thrust into being the man since AI's departure, and has gotten much more attention from the opposition, who now game plan against him this season.

Despite having to be the sole threat out there- which does not play to his strength of being a well rounded slasher/passer -(the floor is not spread by teamates who are offensive threats, and no good players to pass too.)- he still has adapted and is putting up fantastic numbers.

Think how much better he will be when he gets some better team mates and he no longer has to be the only offensive option every night.

Sort of like how Pippen could score and be the man when he was without MJ, but he was a HOF player when you surrounded him with other elite players.

Not every great player in this league is a natural scorer- and Iguodala scores well but is not as smooth and natural as born scorers like AI or even LouWill. I think his talent and athleticism and desire is at such a high level that he still is relatively successful when he is the number one scoring option- and he will be even more imporessive when he can focus more on his overall game and less on carrying all of the scoring burden with hios drives and pull up jumpers.

My analogy is Nash. He could be a good scorer on a horrible team without shooters, but is an MVP when you put him out there with a bunch of other great scorers/shooters and let him do his thing.

Iguodala's thing isn't passing like Nash, but hius overall game as a defender, finisher, passer and clutch shooter will only shine more when his team mates improve- either by reaching their potential (LW, Young, Smith) or when replaced by better opeices (Evans, WG, Carney.)

[SendEm]

Iggy has confirmed in many eyes that he is a solid 3rd option. I don't see anyone calling him a second option but Sixers fans. If Iggy were a 2nd option then you could simply insert a #1 and have the Sixers SERIOUSLY contend for a title. There is no single player in this league that you can insert into the Sixers lineup and have the Sixers be a SERIOUS contender. In fact if you place 2 players of Iggy's same caliber onto this team you probably don't even have a dangerous playoff team. Just think Iggy, Rudy Gay, and Andre Miller is that a serious playoff team in the NBA?
No.

[tk76]

The Sixers have the worst SG and PF's in the league. Not just the starters- but the back-ups.

WG, Carney, Evans and Smith. That is too much to overcome unless all three of your other players are all stars like Boston has- so I don't think your comment given thsi roster is valid.

BTW- Iguodala could replace either Pierce or Allen, and I don't think they would miss a beat. You could not say the same about the third best player on most other teams in this league- and if you can it is because the third best player is about the smae level as the top 2 (eg Marion, Amare, Nash- who is 3?)

[tk76]

Iggy is more of an impact player than Gay or Miller. Put him out there with two complementary (one big one shooter) players from the following groups and they are contenders:

Pick one from any of these players
Suns: Amare, Nash, Marion
Blazers: Roy, Aldridge, Oden (when healthy)
Boston: Any of big three
Dallas: Duncan, Parker, Manu

My poin is that these good (or future good) teams have multiple top players. Unless you have Shaq in his prime, you generally need 3 all stars to be a contenders- and Iguodala is developing into one of the three you need- so pay him 10-11M next year. Kidd gets 22 million, I think a team can still get 2 stars next to Iguodal if we commit half as much to him from age 24-29.

[Sixerscan]

Iggy has confirmed in many eyes that he is a solid 3rd option. I don't see anyone calling him a second option but Sixers fans. If Iggy were a 2nd option then you could simply insert a #1 and have the Sixers SERIOUSLY contend for a title. There is no single player in this league that you can insert into the Sixers lineup and have the Sixers be a SERIOUS contender. In fact if you place 2 players of Iggy's same caliber onto this team you probably don't even have a dangerous playoff team. Just think Iggy, Rudy Gay, and Andre Miller is that a serious playoff team in the NBA?
No.

Well Gay isn't a number 1 option yet and Miller isn't really a very good #3 either so that doesn't make very much sense.

[SendEm]

The Sixers have the worst SG and PF's in the league. Not just the starters- but the back-ups.

WG, Carney, Evans and Smith. That is too much to overcome unless all three of your other players are all stars like Boston has- so I don't think your comment given thsi roster is valid.

BTW- Iguodala could replace either Pierce or Allen, and I don't think they would miss a beat. You could not say the same about the third best player on most other teams in this league- and if you can it is because the third best player is about the smae level as the top 2 (eg Marion, Amare, Nash- who is 3?)

Iggy is NOT as good a player as Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. I repeat Iggy is NOT as good a player as Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

Now to address the rest of your point it ONLY goes to show how much of a 3rd option Iggy really is being that he clearly isn't as good a player as what the 3rd best player is on a few NBA teams, especially given the fact that Iggy has the green light to be all that he can be as far as where stats and playing time are concerned. Ultimately I fail to see the true point in your last paragraph if you could restate it or clarify it for me that would be good.

The better question would be could Iggy be placed on a team that had a #1 and no #2 and have that team be a serious CHIP contender? No. I say that because I don't envision Kevin Garnett and the Timberwolves being a beast in the NBA last season with Iggy. How about placing Iggy on the Heat with both Shaq and D. Wade THIS SEASON would that be enough to guarantee champion contention? Absolutely not.

[SendEm]

-= original quote snipped =-


Well Gay isn't a number 1 option yet and Miller isn't really a very good #3 either so that doesn't make very much sense.

You just confirmed my point. You just didn't see it. Reread.

[tk76]

Where did you find me saying he currently is as good as the guys I mentioned. I said he is worth 10-11M next year- since he is very good, 23 and getting better.

PP and Allen each make 16M. In fact all of the vets on the lisrt generally make 15-22 Million...

My post says put Iguodala on a roster in the palce of Allen or Peierce and the team is still a top contender. You dissagree?

Top teams have 3 strs- make Iguodala one of them for 10-11M/year and bring in the other two as Dala reaches his prime. Brst of all, his game compements almost any other teammate, since he is not a high volume shooter and is a willing passer and solid defender and can play multiple postitions.

[tk76]

-= original quote snipped =-

The better question would be could Iggy be placed on a team that had a #1 and no #2 and have that team be a serious CHIP contender? No. No. I say that because I don't envision Kevin Garnett and the Timberwolves being a beast in the NBA last season with Iggy.

That is my point. Garnet could only win when he was pairer with two other stars. Aside from Shaq and Maybe MJ, 2 stars alone have not been able to win. Look at Stockton and Malone. They were HOF players, perfectly suited, and sill only made the finals 2 of 17 years together. You need three stars. Put Iguodala in the place of Marion or Manu or Allen or Pierce and those teams are still conters today... not to mentionhow much better Dala might be in 3-4 years.

He came in the league afraid and unable to shoot. He lacked the body control to finish on drives, and often failed to get to the line. He didn't want the ball in his hands.

Now he's 23, and is worlds better in all of these areas, and has show the dedication and athletic ability to continue to improve. Why assume he won't be that much better given a few more years to reach his prime?

[Sixerscan]

-= original quote snipped =-



You just confirmed my point. You just didn't see it. Reread.

I did read it wrong. Probably because what you're writing is so vague.

What's a serious playoff team? Who are the other 9 people on the active roster?

These vague "proofs" that you give out are getting kind of annoying.

And it's a stretch at best to call Gay and Miller as good as Iguodala. Just like I could stretch the other way and make a team of Iggy, Roy, and Josh Howard.

[SendEm]

Iggy is 24. Lets stop this 23 yr old talk because it is making Iggy being only 25 days away from his birthday give him just a small added enhancement to his overall potential as an NBA player. Iggy has been performing well the last couple of weeks but this is an 82 game season and that is what NBA players do.

You can't replace Manu with Iggy because Manu's drives to the basket in the halfcourt off of the dribble are ESSENTIAL to what SA does. Iggy doesn't get to the bucket in the half court. Marion is the BEST rebounder for Pheonix Iggy is an average rebounder he an't replace Marion. Last, Pierce and Allen provide shooting and scoring for Boston that Iggy will never have in his game. Iggy is a "glue" guy, Garnett and Rondo are the glue guysfor that team, if Iggy replaces Pierce or Allen that team would lack either some scoring or shooting BIG TIME.

[Sixerscan]

Iggy is 24. Lets stop this 23 yr old talk because it is making Iggy being only 25 days away from his birthday give him just a small added enhancement to his overall potential as an NBA player. Iggy has been performing well the last couple of weeks but this is an 82 game season and that is what NBA players do.

You're right, 24 is ancient.

You seem very worried about changing little facts to help your argument.

He's basically 30 years old anyway.

You can't replace Manu with Iggy because Manu's drives to the basket in the halfcourt off of the dribble are ESSENTIAL to what SA does. Iggy doesn't get to the bucket in the half court. Marion is the BEST rebounder for Pheonix Iggy is an average rebounder he an't replace Marion. Last, Pierce and Allen provide shooting and scoring for Boston that Iggy will never have in his game. Iggy is a "glue" guy, Garnett and Rondo are the glue guysfor that team, if Iggy replaces Pierce or Allen that team would lack either some scoring or shooting BIG TIME.

So it's not because Iguodala isn't as good as any of those guys, but rather because he's a different kind of player. Kind of a nitpick, wouldn't you say? Luckily we don't have to build a with the other people being exactly like those on the Spurs or Suns or Celtics.

(And before you start yelling, yes Manu, Pierce, Allen, and Marion are all better than Iggy. They're also perennial top 20 players in the league. Well maybe not Allen, but the rest)

[tk76]

And I have no idea if Iguodala is a top 20 or even 30 player in 2-3 years- although I think his chances are pretty good (that would make him barely an all-star- which he might be already.)

I do know that the #20 salary is Ben Wallace at 15.5M, and the #30 salary Zach Randolph at 14.3 Million, so I don't see why the Sixers should move him if he wants more than 9M.

If you can sign a young talented potential top 30 player for 11M or under next year you should consider yourself lucky.

Philly has been blessed with some amazing stars over the years, and I think we may have been a bit spoiled in terms of our expectations.

I totally agree with you that we need to have 2 more stars beside Dala to be a championship team. There is an outside chance that two of those three are already on the roster (Iguodala has a great shot at being one,and LW and maybe even Young has an outside shot at developing into another.)

Lets sign Dala, go get a vet star in the next 2 years and then hope we somehow can make another "Moses like" or Sheed like move (or LW develops into a 25 ppg stud) in the following 4 years to put us over the top.

We start dumping all our players because they haven't earned their salaries and suddenly we are Sterling and the Clippers East.

[76erinSJ]

Iggy is a second option. If u replaced him with Manu on the Spurs I def think they would be just as good if not better. He would have even less pressure to be the man and getting passes from Parker and Duncan would give him alot more easy shots plus he wouldnt have to guard the best player on every team with Bowen on their team too. Why do u hate Iggy so much Sendem?

[darius08]

you generally need 3 all stars to be a contenders- and Iguodala is developing into one of the three you need- so pay him 10-11M next year.

Do you think Iguodala will be an allstar? I don't see him making it ever. There's just too many good 2/3 players in the league right now.

[tk76]

I agree, he will never be a Lebron type star. I do think if he is on a winner he could go to several all star games as Lebron's reserve. There are only 24 all-stars. I think he has an excellent shot at being a top 20-30player in this league for a 8-10 year stretch.

Also, the All Star game favors offensive l;ayers. Sure he is a highlight reel dunker- but his defense and team game won't likely be rewarded unless he is on a winner- which is not completely under his control.

If he did replace Manu, Pierce or Howard on those respective teams people would see him as a star and perenial all star because on those teams he would still put up big numbers, but would get the added exposure of being on a contender.

[SendEm]

I agree, he will never be a Lebron type star. I do think if he is on a winner he could go to several all star games as Lebron's reserve. There are only 24 all-stars. I think he has an excellent shot at being a top 20-30player in this league for a 8-10 year stretch.

Let me guess you watched the Blazers Bulls game tonight? They also mentioned an 8-10 year stretch pertaining to Portland competing. Iggy has absolutely no shot at being amongst the top 30 NBA basketball players for 8-10 years. If he could do so for only 2 years I would be completely shocked.

Manu Giniboli is an absolute elite player with and without Duncan. There is no comparison between Ginobili and Iggy.

"They're still a good team without Duncan,'' said Jason Terry. This is after Ginobili lead the Spurs against the Mavs scoring 37 points that game.

Iggy fans are dilusional. I guess that's what being a fanatic is all about...