Welcome Tobias Harris

[Embiid P]

Except that you keep taking both sides of the issue! You're boasting about Harris' playoff numbers one second, and then saying you wish he was gone the next.

Who wouldn’t want to get Jimmy for Tobias?

If im getting Tobias for Jaden McDaniels or Porzingis, sign me up.

I dont hate or am I a fan a particular player. Im willing to trade Embiid, Maxey or Tobias for the right amount of return. Im also willing to hold unto them because they are good players. I’ll praise them if they play well, i’ll call them our if they play poorly.

I’ve learned my lessons, I dont let my hate or fandom for a player blind me for what he is.

Listen, we've beaten this to death - it isn't "hate", it's the realization that this is not a guy that you win championships with him playing a major role. Simple as that.

Problem is that we're f***ked because Morey has played all our chips of any value, so we have to pretend after Harris has a couple of good early season games that the leopard is going to suddenly change his spots. What's the definition of insanity again?

Yup. As long as Harris is on this team with his salary, this team has no chance at competing for a chip. One could make the argument that the Sixers still aren't a championship team even if they move Harris for the right fitting pieces, but their chances will increase significantly.

IMO the fate of this season rests primarily on whether or not Harris is still here past the trade deadline. While I understand the logic of holding onto him until next season when his value will be at his highest, I don't think it's worth punting this season and thus risk Harden walking and Embiid demanding a trade in the offseason.

[mjkvol]

Who wouldn’t want to get Jimmy for Tobias?

If im getting Tobias for Jaden McDaniels or Porzingis, sign me up.

I dont hate or am I a fan a particular player. Im willing to trade Embiid, Maxey or Tobias for the right amount of return. Im also willing to hold unto them because they are good players. I’ll praise them if they play well, i’ll call them our if they play poorly.

I’ve learned my lessons, I dont let my hate or fandom for a player blind me for what he is.

Listen, we've beaten this to death - it isn't "hate", it's the realization that this is not a guy that you win championships with him playing a major role. Simple as that.

Problem is that we're f***ked because Morey has played all our chips of any value, so we have to pretend after Harris has a couple of good early season games that the leopard is going to suddenly change his spots. What's the definition of insanity again?

Yup. As long as Harris is on this team with his salary, this team has no chance at competing for a chip. One could make the argument that the Sixers still aren't a championship team even if they move Harris for the right fitting pieces, but their chances will increase significantly.

IMO the fate of this season rests primarily on whether or not Harris is still here past the trade deadline. While I understand the logic of holding onto him until next season when his value will be at his highest, I don't think it's worth punting this season and thus risk Harden walking and Embiid demanding a trade in the offseason.

True, but actually the bigger factor is if Glenn is here come playoff time. Yeah, we're f***ked.

[Zumramania]

I was one of those people. Of course I think we all thought Simmons would take a step forward which never happened.

I don't think a Butler-Simmons roster could co-exist and still don't. I don't really fault the FO for choosing Simmons over butler because I think without the benefit of hindsight we will have all killed them for making that choice we wanted to see how the Simmons situation played out we did and even though it didn't work I can't fault the FO for wanting to see it through.

I will fault them for bringing in Al and Richardson who were not the floor-spacer defensive stalwarts they were billed as. Also if you remember the goal wasn't Harris we wanted a premier FA like Kawhi or Lebron. Harris was a fallback.

Yes, I know many of us thought Ben could make that leap and Butler had an injury history as well. But my problem is with the fact that they knew him way better than we did, they talked to him, they saw how bad his jumpshot was and that he wasn't willing to shoot in games.
My guess would be that many people in the org knew deep down that Ben would not improve and were telling this to the FO, but the FO didn't want to admit this to themselves, they wanted to believe in their idea about Ben. They probably didn't think he was going to forget how to shoot free throws in the PO, but I think they knew that the probability that he would become something we all hoped he'd become was low. Reports say Elton Brand started to think about trading Simmons (so I think he saw it as well), but the very thought of that was rejected by the FO and the ownership. It was after that that Elton went in a different direction and did his trilogy of horrible moves (max contract to Harris, signing Horford and Richardson).

[LeTimmAy]

Does anyone think that it is possible that Tobias signs a very reasonable contract after this one, let's say 15mil/year. As a thank you for the big contract he had and being part of a contender.
For that money he would be really good value, wouldn't he?

[Embiid P]

Does anyone think that it is possible that Tobias signs a very reasonable contract after this one, let's say 15mil/year. As a thank you for the big contract he had and being part of a contender.
For that money he would be really good value, wouldn't he?

Tobias is a nice high character guy who does a lot of work with the community, but from a pure basketball standpoint, he was brought in to complement Simmons who is obviously no longer here. Because he's essentially a jack of all trades master of none, he isn't an ideal fit next to Embiid, Harden and Maxey all of whom like Tobias are most effective with the ball in their hands.

Even $15 million per is too much for him at least for what this team needs, which are long and athletic 3 and D specialist wings. Obviously much of this is my personal opinion, but I think a clean break is best for all parties.

[youngcrev]

Does anyone think that it is possible that Tobias signs a very reasonable contract after this one, let's say 15mil/year. As a thank you for the big contract he had and being part of a contender.
For that money he would be really good value, wouldn't he?

I don't think he's doing them any favors with contract negotiations, just like he wasn't the first time around.

We're supposed to get another boost in the cap at some point, so I don't know what 15M a year looks like at that time compared to what it is now.

I think he's a 20M level player in today's market.

Hard to say where we'll be 2 summers from now. Is Harden still gonna be here and we're an over the cap team? Are they gonna be players in free agency? Too many moving pieces at the moment to think about.

[mjkvol]

Does anyone think that it is possible that Tobias signs a very reasonable contract after this one, let's say 15mil/year. As a thank you for the big contract he had and being part of a contender.
For that money he would be really good value, wouldn't he?

Tobias is a nice high character guy who does a lot of work with the community, but from a pure basketball standpoint, he was brought in to complement Simmons who is obviously no longer here. Because he's essentially a jack of all trades master of none, he isn't an ideal fit next to Embiid, Harden and Maxey all of whom like Tobias are most effective with the ball in their hands.

Even $15 million per is too much for him at least for what this team needs, which are long and athletic 3 and D specialist wings. Obviously much of this is my personal opinion, but I think a clean break is best for all parties.

You answered it so eloquently I have little to add. The biggest misconception by many fans about Tobias has been that the contract size is the primary issue, and that at half the price he would be a fine piece.

To me, the contract has always been a distant second to the fact that he is a ball dominant player whose strength is scoring, but he isn't good enough to play that role on a playoff team with championship expectations. So he needs to change his game to being something he isn't, and what you end up with is, as you put it, a jack of all trades, master of none who is an awkward fit on this roster. Replace him with a 3&D wing and a real backup PG and the team would be that much stronger and deeper.

[HardenToSixers]

Does anyone think that it is possible that Tobias signs a very reasonable contract after this one, let's say 15mil/year. As a thank you for the big contract he had and being part of a contender.
For that money he would be really good value, wouldn't he?

Tobias is a nice high character guy who does a lot of work with the community, but from a pure basketball standpoint, he was brought in to complement Simmons who is obviously no longer here. Because he's essentially a jack of all trades master of none, he isn't an ideal fit next to Embiid, Harden and Maxey all of whom like Tobias are most effective with the ball in their hands.

Even $15 million per is too much for him at least for what this team needs, which are long and athletic 3 and D specialist wings. Obviously much of this is my personal opinion, but I think a clean break is best for all parties.

You answered it so eloquently I have little to add. The biggest misconception by many fans about Tobias has been that the contract size is the primary issue, and that at half the price he would be a fine piece.

To me, the contract has always been a distant second to the fact that he is a ball dominant player whose strength is scoring, but he isn't good enough to play that role on a playoff team with championship expectations. So he needs to change his game to being something he isn't, and what you end up with is, as you put it, a jack of all trades, master of none who is an awkward fit on this roster. Replace him with a 3&D wing and a real backup PG and the team would be that much stronger and deeper.

to me, the contract has always been a distant second to the fact that he broke the Sixers all time record for most 3s in a playoff game in game 6 against the Raptors, adding the finishing touches on our spiral into darkness after the masterpiece orchestrated by Adam Silver and Bryan Colangelo

[SixthStreet]

I wonder if the Tobias problem is not the player but the position. Because of him we can't play the right players at the 4. It should be a Tucker/Reed platoon alongside playing primarily 3 guard lineups (especially considering the M&Ms and Harden can up position defensively).

I don't want to find this out because of injury but I think the team would be better if Tobias was out and we made no other additions (presuming full health) because of a more cohesive rotation.

The opportunity cost of playing Harris 36 mpg is very high for this particular roster, IMO. We don't need the stuff he does well and he takes a lot of minutes away from 5 man units that have proven to work.

[SixthStreet]

Imagine this roster with no Tobias and Eric Gordon. It would force Rivers' hands to put out the kind of lineups we need to see.

[the_process]

I wonder if the Tobias problem is not the player but the position. Because of him we can't play the right players at the 4. It should be a Tucker/Reed platoon alongside playing primarily 3 guard lineups (especially considering the M&Ms and Harden can up position defensively).

I don't want to find this out because of injury but I think the team would be better if Tobias was out and we made no other additions (presuming full health) because of a more cohesive rotation.

The opportunity cost of playing Harris 36 mpg is very high for this particular roster, IMO. We don't need the stuff he does well and he takes a lot of minutes away from 5 man units that have proven to work.

This sounds suspiciously like addition by subtraction.

[M2J]

You guys are mean

[mjkvol]

Imagine this roster with no Tobias and Eric Gordon. It would force Rivers' hands to put out the kind of lineups we need to see.

It's funny in a warped kind of way that some of us are under this delusion that the Sixers are competing for a championship, and meanwhile we have a coach whose hands need to be forced by injury or something similar to play proper lineups that work with the personnel on hand.

[Jailblazers7]

Since the Harden trade, Tobias has converted me to the argument that he’s a good player but just a terrible contract. He’s accepted his role and is an imperfect but still net positive player for this team.

Even with the bad contract, it’s not his fault that we spent $10M on PJ Tucker when we could have signed Bruce Brown, Kyle Anderson, or Caleb Martin for less money.

[SixersSince82]

Never been a fan of Tobias Harris. The moment they traded for him I knew it meant the Jimmy Butler era was over and therefore our championship window was likely closed before it really even opened.

If they can move Harris for 2 guys that expire at the same time I'm all for it, but otherwise Ive come to terms with keeping him here. At this point Doc is a bigger issue than Harris and he's not going away anytime soon. So I think the best plan is for the 6ers to take their 2 year run with Harris' and Harden's contracts expiring at the same time (assuming Harden opts in this summer). Retool in the Summer of 2024 with a new coach and cap space while Maxey is on his cap hold. Jaylen Brown, Siakam and OG are all two way wings that could be free agents that summer.

[76ciology]

Last 10 games (includes 3pt game vs Cavs)
19.5 pts
6.4reb
2.4apg
49FG%
41 3pt%
95FT%

[Embiid P]

Last 10 games (includes 3pt game vs Cavs)
19.5 pts
6.4reb
2.4apg
49FG%
41 3pt%
95FT%

All the more reason to trade him while he's on a hot streak.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Empty stats

[76ciology]

Last 10 games (includes 3pt game vs Cavs)
19.5 pts
6.4reb
2.4apg
49FG%
41 3pt%
95FT%

All the more reason to trade him while he's on a hot streak.

Yes for the right return.

I think this recent run has pumped his value

[Mik317]

Tobias is the only guy on the roster who actually adjusted his game lol