This is your Magic!

[UCFJayBird]

just because you settle for mediocrity doesn't mean everyone else has to. if you a pro team, and your goal isn't making the finals, something is seriously wrong.

Who says i'm settling for mediocrity? I'm not settling for anything. I agree this team needs to improve if they want to have a shot at the finals. But as the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day! It takes TIME. It takes PATIENCE.

Teams don't go from 40 wins to winning the championship in one season. I'm not saying the Magic should sit still and not do anything, but I'm not going to jump down their throats for not making a move if it wasn't there. We don't know what teams wanted.

chemistry? maturing? is this a high school team? college team? wat world?

If you don't think chemistry and maturity matter in sports, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. If you think all that matters is having the talent, I suggest you go back and look at the past. You think great teams just spring out of nothing? Teams need chemistry, it allows them to play to their full potential. They know their strengths and weaknesses. Every player knows what they need to do at the end of the game to maximize the team's success. Ask the Spurs, Mavericks, Jazz, Suns, Rockets, and Hornets if chemistry works. Look at their teams past records with their cores and notice that it took at least a year, if not 2-3 before they reached their full potential.

well, i guess some people will be happy when orlando wins one game of a playoff series, i guess thats improving. what people dont realize is

1) nelson isn't going to get any better
2) hedo will surely decline from this year
3) otis cant draft
4) lewis is lewis
5) howard cant do it all
6) tony battie!?!? people are putting hope in a 30 year old career 6 points and 5 rebounds guy?thats hilarious

1. Maybe not, but I didn't say he would.
2. Hedo is only 28, he's got a couple years of prime. He may decline, he may get better, he may stay the same. You don't know, neither do I. I didn't think Hedo would get better this year, but he did.
3. most GMs can't
4. Ok?
5. Yes he can.
6. I'm not putting any hope in Battie, but him back in the rotation will help solidify our front court.

You're mistaking improvements in the future for immediate improvements. You want everything to happen now, but 99% of the time that's not how it works in sports, especially in the NBA. Want to know why the Magic failed under Gabriel? Because every year was the same thing, throw everyone but the stars out the window and find new players, new strategies instead of building on what worked and being patient.

the spurs made a move to get kenny thomas, the best team in the last 10 years, i guess they dont settle with mediocrity.

So? The Spurs are already the champs, they're already there. They're at the point where they find little pieces to fit.

otis wont trade jj redick? are you kiddingggggggg me? otis wont trade carlos arroyo? call gary payton up, he could do with arroyo is doing now. correct me if im wrong, but wont dwight and lewis' contract seriously tie up orlando financially?

I don't get what you're getting at. you wanted otis to make a deal for the sake of making one. You don't care what it brought in, just that it happened.

finally, people are surely going to be disappointed if you are seriously banking on mediocre talent maturing into all star players.

orlando should be called the Orlando Mediocres. Because thats what they are. Mediocre GM, mediocre players.

We already have a superstar and two borderline all-stars (one a previous all-star playing out of position). Do we really need more all-stars? No. We need quality pieces. Those aren't always available in trade.

[UCFJayBird]

I see a lot of "we shouldn't make a trade for the sake of making a trade", but its not about that at all. The question is, does the play of Dooling, Arroyo, and Garrity outweigh their value as capspace for other teams. Then look at our other assets like a first round pick, whether we can trade '08 or not, we will be in the 20's the next few years. The odds of finding a diamond there is slim to none. And JJ, who currently can't outplay Evans, Bogans, or Dooling, but is so coveted by Otis. Other teams however could use that type of scoring and contract on their roster.

Those assets are not worth keeping over the player that could have been had for them imo. Money supposedly wasn't a deciding factor, but I believe it was major factor. We thought that Devos was willing to do whatever it takes when he signed Lewis, but apparently thats not the case, and it has its limits. Its times like this that I wish we had Mark Cuban as an owner. You don't question his willingness to be a winner. This just gives me the feeling that we have more similarities with the Clippers instead. We are willing to be good, but its not very profitable to be great.

A lot of the great teams don't overspend and throw themselves into the luxury tax. It causes a deep hole if something goes wrong that you can't get out of. Look at the Knicks, they spend as much as they can and they suck. the Spurs have expiring contracts every year but are over the cap almost every year as well.

Despite popular belief, you CAN win without spending 100 million dollars a year on players. It's about finding the right players.

[spinedoc]

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A lot of the great teams don't overspend and throw themselves into the luxury tax. It causes a deep hole if something goes wrong that you can't get out of. Look at the Knicks, they spend as much as they can and they suck. the Spurs have expiring contracts every year but are over the cap almost every year as well.

Despite popular belief, you CAN win without spending 100 million dollars a year on players. It's about finding the right players.

No offense, but your pointing out the extreme in the argument to make your case. You don't have to be the Knicks here, but you could be the Spurs, Suns, Mavs, Pistons, or Celtics. Not that I have liked every move that they have made, but they have always been proactive and successful. We on the other hand appear to have a Clipper effect happening, where we are willing to be good to a point, but profitability is a big concern. I don't want the Lewis signing to be an appeasement. I want it to be the standard. Arroyo, Dooling, Garrity, JJ, and a draft pick don't have much value to me going forward as to what they could bring in a trade. I think we are going to need more than the mle to complete this team.

[UCFJayBird]

Spurs and Pistons are what I think the Magic are trying to do. Neither is in the top half of the payrolls, and both have dominated this league this decade.

the Spurs are who we should look at, year after year they find ways to cut their salaries yet still sign players and bring in new blood, and find gems. The Spurs never have an enormous payroll, but are always winning championships.

edit: actually the Pistons are in the top half, my bad. The Pistons are 15th in salaries, Spurs 16th.

[TheRevTy]

I was just thinking, and I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but it doesn't merit a whole new thread, but what ever happened to Wayne Simien? Miami was pretty high on him, then he was traded and just cut. Is he even still in the league?

[MagicalMan]

Spurs and Pistons are what I think the Magic are trying to do. Neither is in the top half of the payrolls, and both have dominated this league this decade.

the Spurs are who we should look at, year after year they find ways to cut their salaries yet still sign players and bring in new blood, and find gems. The Spurs never have an enormous payroll, but are always winning championships.

edit: actually the Pistons are in the top half, my bad. The Pistons are 15th in salaries, Spurs 16th.

The Spurs can draft. The Magic cant. Pistons improved by shaking things up and adding Sheed at the trade deadline. So we don't fit either mold.

[spinedoc]

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The Spurs can draft. The Magic cant. Pistons improved by shaking things up and adding Sheed at the trade deadline. So we don't fit either mold.

Nice assist. What he said.

[mattyBoi]

Are you seriously relying on Otis to find a "gem"



What has Otis ever done to show you he is capable of finding a gem?

And UCFJaybird you talk about building slowly and Rome wasnt built in a day.

So i ask you, how are we going to get better?

Is it the draft? No

Free Agency? NO MLE free agent will make a championship change on this team. Dude Matt Carroll got the MLE last year. Those are the kind of players we're talking about here.

Trade Assets? Well we all know that just went out the window at 3:00 p.m.

Also NO teams are happy with just having a winning season...Does anyone think the Suns or the Mavs were happy after last season?[/b]

[aleZ]

I guess we got worked up a bit by all the big names that got traded already.

Few ppl here wanted a bigname player, just a smart move given the situation at PF, PG and the backcourt in general. Like many others already pointed out, the Magic still have a lot of dead weight going into the most critical part of the season: JJ, Pat, Arroyo (that's three players stuck on the bench), no rebounder beside dwight, a crappy backup SG rotation and so on.

There's still around 30 games left, better hope Stan keeps up the good work.

[MagicHolland]

One thing I have noticed, might be wrong, is that most of the people replying positive on this thread are posting longer on realgm and the negative ones are mostly newer posters. Doesn't say anything but I just noticed that..

Anyways, yes I would've liked some kind of upgrade. But there wasn't much out there I guess, the Miller/Garcia and Haslem deals would've gotten me excited but Reggie Evans? Not so much..

What some people with a more negative view are forgetting is that there are many more factors to improve than just trading some expirings.

- Chemistry
- Development (why wouldn't Jameer be able to do what Turk did?)
- Trading talent (Hedo, JJ for example)
- Draft
- MLE ( Hedo is an MLE guy)

May have been a dissapointment that we didn't do anything, especially after being told we had a great deal on the table (Garcia/Miller) but there's still a lot that can happen..

[MagicalMan]

One thing I have noticed, might be wrong, is that most of the people replying positive on this thread are posting longer on realgm and the negative ones are mostly newer posters. Doesn't say anything but I just noticed that..

Well ive been here almost 4 years and I cant help but be frustrated and complain. I dont think length of activity has anything to do with posters opinions.

[mhectorgato]

What some people with a more negative view are forgetting is that there are many more factors to improve than just trading some expirings.

- Chemistry

Undoubtedly this will help us, but I don't see it being the difference between being a contender and not.

[quote="Der fliegende Holl

[surflawyer]

Ive posted this on different Trheads ....

Next year we have this:

Nelson, ________, _________
Bogans, JJ, ________
Hedo, ________, ________
Lewis, Battie, Cook
Howard, Foyle (player opt), Gortat (team opt)

Our salary will be $59+ mil
MLE $5.5
vet min $1.5 mil

We need to fill 5 roster spots, replace Dooling and Arroyo, if Foyle and Gortat dont remain we will have 7 roster spots to fill.

If we use the MLE to get a decent player at any of the open positions then we will have between 4 and 6 vet min players

Our salary will be $59 + $5.5 MLE + 4($1.5) vet mins = 70.5 mil
Losing Gortat and Foyle you get $59 + $5.5 + 6($1.5) = $73 mil

If we resign Dooling and Arroyo at 4 mil each we will only have to find 3 -5 roster spots but our contracts will now be $67 mil + MLE ($5.5) + 2 vet mins at $1.5 mil each = $75.5 mil

We will essentially have the same team with one MLE guy 2 vet mins and be in the Luxury Tax.

Long story short, my complaint is that we were unable to get even one role player for our expirings to ease the money problem which exists next year and for several years to come.

[MagicalMan]

except we do have some bird rights on some of our expiring. I hope. So resigning them wont eat up the MLE. At least this is what I hope and im too lazy to look up the bird rights on our expirings. if someone could that would be great and good to know.

[Cammo101]

Ive posted this on different Trheads ....

Next year we have this:

Nelson, ________, _________
Bogans, JJ, ________
Hedo, ________, ________
Lewis, Battie, Cook
Howard, Foyle (player opt), Gortat (team opt)

Our salary will be $59+ mil
MLE $5.5
vet min $1.5 mil

We need to fill 5 roster spots, replace Dooling and Arroyo, if Foyle and Gortat dont remain we will have 7 roster spots to fill.

If we use the MLE to get a decent player at any of the open positions then we will have between 4 and 6 vet min players

Our salary will be $59 + $5.5 MLE + 4($1.5) vet mins = 70.5 mil
Losing Gortat and Foyle you get $59 + $5.5 + 6($1.5) = $73 mil

If we resign Dooling and Arroyo at 4 mil each we will only have to find 3 -5 roster spots but our contracts will now be $67 mil + MLE ($5.5) + 2 vet mins at $1.5 mil each = $75.5 mil

We will essentially have the same team with one MLE guy 2 vet mins and be in the Luxury Tax.

Long story short, my complaint is that we were unable to get even one role player for our expirings to ease the money problem which exists next year and for several years to come.

Resign Dooling and Evans. Draft DJ White. Sign Childress with the MLE. Bring Fran over. Sign a LLE PG, maybe Darius Washington or Kevin Kruger.

Huge upgrade over this year.

[surflawyer]

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Resign Dooling and Evans. Draft DJ White. Sign Childress with the MLE. Bring Fran over. Sign a LLE PG, maybe Darius Washington or Kevin Kruger.

Huge upgrade over this year.

I cant argue that it is not an upgrade, the point being is that this is going to be your 75 mil team with little to no flexibility in the future. Championship run? I think not.

PS you scenerio also assumes that we reup Gortat and Foyle decide to play here next year. If not you have two more bigs to replace. Good Luck with that.

[KingRobb02]

Spurs and Pistons are what I think the Magic are trying to do. Neither is in the top half of the payrolls, and both have dominated this league this decade.

the Spurs are who we should look at, year after year they find ways to cut their salaries yet still sign players and bring in new blood, and find gems. The Spurs never have an enormous payroll, but are always winning championships.

edit: actually the Pistons are in the top half, my bad. The Pistons are 15th in salaries, Spurs 16th.

The difference between us and San Antonio is that the Spurs can draft a whole lot better than we can. Every year tey pick up someone who helps their team. The next time we make a impactful choice that isn't in the top 5 will be the first.

The difference between us and Detroit is that the Pistons make moves. Wallace, Hamilton, McDyess, and Billups were all brought in on deals where it seemed like Detroit was taking a risk. Even though they gave up failry little. They can also draft a lot better than we can (say what you want about Darko, but it got them Kelvin Cato and Rodney Stuckey).

You can preach patience all you want, but this team has no definite direction, so waiting is not the answer. We can't expect this team to magically learn to defend.

[surflawyer]

except we do have some bird rights on some of our expiring. I hope. So resigning them wont eat up the MLE. At least this is what I hope and im too lazy to look up the bird rights on our expirings. if someone could that would be great and good to know.

This is correct. We can resign Dooling and Evans (he has his three years not interupted by any of his trades). If Dooling decides to walk we are screwed. If I were Doolings agent I would be on the phone right now asking for 5 mil 3 years. He has us by the short and curlies. Evans has also showed his worth and he will be asking between 3.5 and 4.5 mil which is a raise that doesnt eat into the MLE but it does throw us dangerously close (if not over depending on the circumstance) to the LUX TAX.

[aleZ]

Our favorite Netherlandish, Der fliegende Holl

[spinedoc]

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LOL that's pure ownage right there good thing Holland has a sense of humor, I gotta remember to never piss you off (given italians' rep)

MrTulip

Yeah, I just read that too. mhec with the Dutch references, that was classic sir. Btw, I fly out to Amsterdam on March 13th, I can't wait to get out to my second adopted country. Osterbleef!