2024 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 7: (5) Orlando Magic at (4) Cleveland Cavaliers - Series Tied 3-3

[Fortune Teller]

Isaac came up really small tonight. What was the point of saving him all season if it just meant he couldn't withstand actual minutes when it counted? 18 minutes, 2 points, 2 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals. Because we've been programmed to be happy if he even gets on the court, we forget he's still the highest-paid player on the team and been sucking up cap space with no return on investment for years. Now, after waiting all this time, this is what he contributes. As many of us have said all season, you can't project what he does in 12 minutes to normal playing time because it's just not the same. It takes stamina and strength that he doesn't possess, which is why his career has been what it has.

[eyriq]

Isaac came up really small tonight. What was the point of saving him all season if it just meant he couldn't withstand actual minutes when it counted? 18 minutes, 2 points, 2 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals. Because we've been programmed to be happy if he even gets on the court, we forget he's still the highest-paid player on the team and been sucking up cap space with no return on investment for years. Now, after waiting all this time, this is what he contributes. As many of us have said all season, you can't project what he does in 12 minutes to normal playing time because it's just not the same. It takes stamina and strength that he doesn't possess, which is why his career has been what it has.

Yeah, even hours later and many beers into cinco de mayo JI is the only player I'm really sad about and disappointed in.

[drsd]

(semi)Box score thoughts (semi-rant).

Orlando lost the FG% differential battle and lost the game.

Franz goes 1-15 in a playoff game while Paolo has 38 points for the second straight road game .....

Actually, Banchero missed more FGs than F-Wagner: 18 to 14. Another way to look at that: Banchero has more FG misses than F-Wagner had FG attempts.

Banchero, Suggs, and F-Wagner combined to MISS 44 FGs. Yes that is the boxscore for the loss, but for me, it is the consequence not the cause.

The cause of all the big-3 missing shots is that G-Harris only TOOK 4 FGs. Orlando thus was playing 4 on 5 essentially every offensive play. That is bad and must be fixed. 80% of this board want a new PG. You can call the new guard whatever you want, but Mr Wonderful needs to replace G-Harris.

Look at Strus' boxscore as an example. He went 5-9 and scored 13 points. That is EXACTLY what Orlando needs to win games like this. Slot a "Strus" in for G-Harris, and the court opens up.

Anyhow: off my pedestal. This game, as essentially all of the playoff games, has been a informational gem for management. Now: WePark needs to get to work.

[drsd]

One thing I'm sure we can all agree with, Ingles' option cannot be picked up this summer. Dude is washed.

This makes sense only in management believes Houstan or Howard is ready to move from a 3rd string to a major-minutes backup at the SF slot. I think Ingles might be brought back for one more year as I don;'t think the answer is yes, yet.

[penny_nz]

(semi)Box score thoughts (semi-rant).

Orlando lost the FG% differential battle and lost the game.

Franz goes 1-15 in a playoff game while Paolo has 38 points for the second straight road game .....

Actually, Banchero missed more FGs than F-Wagner: 18 to 14. Another way to look at that: Banchero has more FG misses than F-Wagner had FG attempts.

Banchero, Suggs, and F-Wagner combined to MISS 44 FGs. Yes that is the boxscore for the loss, but for me, it is the consequence not the cause.

The cause of all the big-3 missing shots is that G-Harris only TOOK 4 FGs. Orlando thus was playing 4 on 5 essentially every offensive play. That is bad and must be fixed. 80% of this board want a new PG. You can call the new guard whatever you want, but Mr Wonderful needs to replace G-Harris.

Look at Strus' boxscore as an example. He went 5-9 and scored 13 points. That is EXACTLY what Orlando needs to win games like this. Slot a "Strus" in for G-Harris, and the court opens up.

Anyhow: off my pedestal. This game, as essentially all of the playoff games, has been a informational gem for management. Now: WePark needs to get to work.

Couldn't agree more, we need a new guard next to Suggs. Could you imagine how different this team would be if we had anything CLOSE to a playoff calibre NBA guard alongside Suggs AND Franz remembered how to shoot the 3. Good luck stacking the paint against Paolo in that case ...

[PrimeThyme]

I agree that Franz needs to step up if the Magic are going to pay him like a real option.

However, I agree with pepe somewhat. Isaac was coddled all season and played very well in specific games. Not sure you can justify being an elite defensive option as a #1 highest paid guy on a team if you aren’t playing very much in a playoff series.

Not really worth building him up for seasons at a time and bringing him steadily along in limited minutes if he’s barely going to impact Orlando’s first playoff series. Guy has more experience than just about anyone as well.

It's not even that I disagree with Pepe or that sentiment. It's that simply shrugging off Franz's performance as a terrible night and focusing on Isaac or Paolo's isolation is like focusing on the dishes in the sink when your roof just caved in.

I held out on criticizing Franz essentially the entire season, but his shooting carried into the playoffs, and we quite honestly just lost a closeout Game 7 in large part to our 2nd option having the worst shooting performance on record.

Franz is going into year 4 and will be dedicating another entire summer to Olympic basketball. There are serious concerns that I have with his development.

[SHAQ32]

Offense went to crap once Magic were in the penalty, 5-something into 2nd quarter. The refs called the game different in the 2nd and 3rd compared to the 1st and 4th. Personal fouls: Cavs 23, Magic 32.

[drsd]

Paolo needs to continue to work on his handles and his J. He needs to learn the nuances of the game for a guy in his position. Take care of the teammates first then shut the door in the 4th. Fitness and stamina look good.

I agree that Banchero must, must lower his TO line. But in this "decision making", he also needs to be judicious in his shot taking. Bachero's efficiency is poor. And his eFG% line needs to go up, whilst keeping the strong FTA per game line.

Franz I would hope take some time off this summer to work on his individual skills. Needs to keep working on the J and has to develop and in between game.

There can be no doubt: F-Wagner will take about 10,000 three-ball practice shots this summer. Yes he will continue to refine his beautiful eurostep. And develop further his left hand. But F-Wagner will be angry this summer because of this game and will channel that anger to gym practice sessions.

Suggs is going to continue to get better but he needs to work on his in between game also specially his floater. I would like to see him put on more muscle to help him handle the physicality he plays with.

For me, Suggs needs to focus more on yoga, stretching and injury management techniques. His game is always one moment away from "career-ending injury". He's not going to change how he plays, so he needs to spend the summer ensuring his body is properly prepared for the damage he is going to impose. There is a lot of very good science here that he needs to buy in to. Fultz has a semi-live-in doctor doing all this body-management stuff. Suggs can hire her.

Carter I’m bringing back. Just keep working on shooting and in the gym work on his explosiveness. He’s not a good second jumper.

Carter's best season in games played, he missed 20 games. Carter AVEAGES missing 29.5 games per season. So, Carter needs to also talk to Fultz' doctor. A lot.

Cole needs to learn how to turn it on and off more consistently. He could get better as a shooter also.

I'd be surprised if Anthony returns next season. But if he does, does any of us expect him to change his game at all? He is who he will be for the rest of his career.

Mo needs to convince good brother to take the summer off lol.

Some zen-meditation time for both of the Wagners sounds like a great use of their summer. For M-Wagner, he spent a lot of time this season stating to the media that he struggles to control his feelings and that has had non-team consequences. But he is working on his mental health here.

Fultz is gone.

Black showed enought that I am fairly certain you are correct.

Harris is probably gone too.

Probably? Probably ?!?!?!? How many pixels have I posted that Harris is "THE" reason Orlando losses games? More seriously, the Magic will bring in a new guard, so there is actually no roster spot for Harris. He "can't" be brought back.

Ingles I might bring back at the vet minimum.

Ingles is on a team option. He costs 10M or he is not a Magician. I think it's 50/50 this goes either way.

Black needs to lock himself in the gym with the shooting coach.

It is widely reported that Black is doing just this. THis is a dude who would go back to the arena after games (and the fans left) to work on his shot. Orlando might as well buy him a bed to stay inside the training facility. He's not leaving it anyhow.

Howard needs to work on his footwork and foot speed so he can become an average defender.

That's the blueprint to become "deep bench 3rd stringer". Howard is nowhere near being a contributor on this team. So what does he need this summer? To work on his individual and team defensive abilities. At best Howard will be a 3 and D player. So he better figure out the D part to evolve into a medium minutes backup. I'm not seeing it, but here's hoping.

Not sure what you can do with Isaac except leave him in the anchor role defensively with the second unit.

There isn't a starter slot for him anyhow. So: Orlando swallows another 17.4 for a backup medium-minutes bench player. Whatever. He does impact "winning", so maybe it's fine he makes a million a minute-averaged per game.

They need a point guard who can set the table in the pick and roll and someone who takes care of the ball and get them good shots in tight games.

Argg. This narrative drives me crazy. Watching how effective Ingles and M-Wagner were on the PnR, we fans need to accept that F-Wagner and Banchero are the primary ball handlers on this team. Yes the Magic must replace G-Harris. And yes ESPN migh call that player "PG". But the player the Magic brings in will be more off-ball and less on-ball. And you even say so yourself in your next comments.

The home run swing is getting Paul George.

You contradict yourself. You just said, "They need a point guard". If the Magic sign George, the starting five will have Suggs as the PG.

A triple would be going after Murray if Atlanta is open to trading him.

This is the kind of player that is for me a bunny-quotes "PG". Orlando would be well served to play two combo-guards in Murray and Suggs. But neither would be a PG on this team, in the true meaning of that word.

The front office has to make at least one bold move of not two.

and

I also like Kevin Huerter as a secondary move. He kind of is lost out there in Sacramento but that happens to a lot of players.

I don't agree that that is required. The Magic need a upgrade for G-Harris, need to replace a 3rd string PG (when Fultz, leaves and Black moves to backup PG, then Black's 3rd string slot opens up), and replace a 3rd string PF. Are we even supposed to miss Okeke?


As to Huerter, there about 5 of those guys in the NBA the Magic can look at. If the Magic don;t get SImons or Trent in the FA market,
Huerter would be an upgrade for G-Harris.

[Knightro]

The cause of all the big-3 missing shots is that G-Harris only TOOK 4 FGs. Orlando thus was playing 4 on 5 essentially every offensive play. That is bad and must be fixed. 80% of this board want a new PG. You can call the new guard whatever you want, but Mr Wonderful needs to replace G-Harris.

Look at Strus' boxscore as an example. He went 5-9 and scored 13 points. That is EXACTLY what Orlando needs to win games like this. Slot a "Strus" in for G-Harris, and the court opens up.

These sort of sweeping proclamations that you make off just reading box scores are just beyond frustrating.

Max Strus touched the ball 34 times per game in the front court this season. Max Strus attempted 10.4 shots per game.

Gary Harris touched the ball 15 times per game in the front court this season. Gary Harris attempted 5.5 shots per game.

I'm not a math whiz, but I can do simple division and that division tells me that Gary Harris shot the ball more frequently on a per touch basis than Max Strus did.

The much bigger issue than Gary's lack of volume as a shooter is the fact that the Magic simply do not move the basketball very well in the half court. They were 3rd from the bottom in assists and 2nd from the bottom in secondary assists as a team. Also specific to Gary, the Magic don't really run any sort of off-ball action to get him shots off movement.

He's pretty much strictly used as a catch-and-shoot player only and those passes just don't really come his direction all that often. When they do, he shoots.

Until the Magic either A. bring in a real point guard capable of initiating pick and rolls and making higher end passing reads out of those pick and rolls or B. Paolo and Franz become more skilled at drive and kick to shooters instead of just drive and look to score (or ideally a combination of A & B), you'll see more of the same.

Switching Gary Harris for Max Strus this season wouldn't have changed literally anything. Neither would Gary Trent. Neither would Kevin Huerter. If any of those guys were used like Gary was used and got the ball the same amount of times (aka not very many times), their numbers would look terrible too.

[byeganyo]

The cause of all the big-3 missing shots is that G-Harris only TOOK 4 FGs. Orlando thus was playing 4 on 5 essentially every offensive play. That is bad and must be fixed. 80% of this board want a new PG. You can call the new guard whatever you want, but Mr Wonderful needs to replace G-Harris.

Look at Strus' boxscore as an example. He went 5-9 and scored 13 points. That is EXACTLY what Orlando needs to win games like this. Slot a "Strus" in for G-Harris, and the court opens up.

These sort of sweeping proclamations that you make off just reading box scores are just beyond frustrating.

Max Strus touched the ball 34 times per game in the front court this season. Max Strus attempted 10.4 shots per game.

Gary Harris touched the ball 15 times per game in the front court this season. Gary Harris attempted 5.5 shots per game.

I'm not a math whiz, but I can do simple division and that division tells me that Gary Harris shot the ball more frequently on a per touch basis than Max Strus did.

The much bigger issue than Gary's lack of volume as a shoot is the fact that the Magic simply do not move the basketball very well in the half court. They were 3rd from the bottom in assists and 2nd from the bottom in secondary assists as a team. Also specific to Gary, the Magic don't really run any sort of off-ball action to get him shots off movement.

He's pretty much strictly used as a catch-and-shoot player only and those passes just don't really come his direction all that often. When they do, he shoots.

Until the Magic either A. bring in a real point guard capable of initiating pick and rolls and making higher end passing reads out of those pick and rolls or B. Paolo and Franz become more skilled at drive and kick to shooters instead of just drive and look to score (or ideally a combination of A & B), you'll see more of the same.

Switching Gary Harris for Max Strus this season wouldn't have changed literally anything. Neither would Gary Trent. Neither would Kevin Huerter. If any of those guys were used like Gary was used and got the ball the same amount of times (aka not very many times), their numbers would look terrible too.

I diagree - Gary is better defender than them, so we would have been worse actually.

Another boxscore thought about drsd - Gary plays and Mitchel and Garland combine for 14-40 or 35% at home
Gary doesnt play on friday - Mitchel and garland go for 32-53 or 61% at Orlando

[bigdogdylan5]

The cause of all the big-3 missing shots is that G-Harris only TOOK 4 FGs. Orlando thus was playing 4 on 5 essentially every offensive play. That is bad and must be fixed. 80% of this board want a new PG. You can call the new guard whatever you want, but Mr Wonderful needs to replace G-Harris.

Look at Strus' boxscore as an example. He went 5-9 and scored 13 points. That is EXACTLY what Orlando needs to win games like this. Slot a "Strus" in for G-Harris, and the court opens up.

These sort of sweeping proclamations that you make off just reading box scores are just beyond frustrating.

Max Strus touched the ball 34 times per game in the front court this season. Max Strus attempted 10.4 shots per game.

Gary Harris touched the ball 15 times per game in the front court this season. Gary Harris attempted 5.5 shots per game.

I'm not a math whiz, but I can do simple division and that division tells me that Gary Harris shot the ball more frequently on a per touch basis than Max Strus did.

The much bigger issue than Gary's lack of volume as a shooter is the fact that the Magic simply do not move the basketball very well in the half court. They were 3rd from the bottom in assists and 2nd from the bottom in secondary assists as a team. Also specific to Gary, the Magic don't really run any sort of off-ball action to get him shots off movement.

He's pretty much strictly used as a catch-and-shoot player only and those passes just don't really come his direction all that often. When they do, he shoots.

Until the Magic either A. bring in a real point guard capable of initiating pick and rolls and making higher end passing reads out of those pick and rolls or B. Paolo and Franz become more skilled at drive and kick to shooters instead of just drive and look to score (or ideally a combination of A & B), you'll see more of the same.

Switching Gary Harris for Max Strus this season wouldn't have changed literally anything. Neither would Gary Trent. Neither would Kevin Huerter. If any of those guys were used like Gary was used and got the ball the same amount of times (aka not very many times), their numbers would look terrible too.

This is 100% right. We need more shooting as a team coming off bench but the chief need is getting a guard who can run offense and allow Paolo to not have to be the creator 24/7. It will be really powerful when you can do both regular and inverted pick and rolls. That person also needs to at least be respectable from 3 so Paolo and Franz get more space.

[MagicMatic]

The cause of all the big-3 missing shots is that G-Harris only TOOK 4 FGs. Orlando thus was playing 4 on 5 essentially every offensive play. That is bad and must be fixed. 80% of this board want a new PG. You can call the new guard whatever you want, but Mr Wonderful needs to replace G-Harris.

Look at Strus' boxscore as an example. He went 5-9 and scored 13 points. That is EXACTLY what Orlando needs to win games like this. Slot a "Strus" in for G-Harris, and the court opens up.

These sort of sweeping proclamations that you make off just reading box scores are just beyond frustrating.

Max Strus touched the ball 34 times per game in the front court this season. Max Strus attempted 10.4 shots per game.

Gary Harris touched the ball 15 times per game in the front court this season. Gary Harris attempted 5.5 shots per game.

I'm not a math whiz, but I can do simple division and that division tells me that Gary Harris shot the ball more frequently on a per touch basis than Max Strus did.

The much bigger issue than Gary's lack of volume as a shooter is the fact that the Magic simply do not move the basketball very well in the half court. They were 3rd from the bottom in assists and 2nd from the bottom in secondary assists as a team. Also specific to Gary, the Magic don't really run any sort of off-ball action to get him shots off movement.

He's pretty much strictly used as a catch-and-shoot player only and those passes just don't really come his direction all that often. When they do, he shoots.

Until the Magic either A. bring in a real point guard capable of initiating pick and rolls and making higher end passing reads out of those pick and rolls or B. Paolo and Franz become more skilled at drive and kick to shooters instead of just drive and look to score (or ideally a combination of A & B), you'll see more of the same.

Switching Gary Harris for Max Strus this season wouldn't have changed literally anything. Neither would Gary Trent. Neither would Kevin Huerter. If any of those guys were used like Gary was used and got the ball the same amount of times (aka not very many times), their numbers would look terrible too.

I said it before the season and I say it now…

Gary Harris since leaving Denver has been nothing but a role player off the bench. He’s never been anything more. You can’t be a starter in the league if you aren’t attempting shots. Yes he provides good defense. Yes he shows up every 1/5 in the box score. That doesn’t make him a starter.

It’s also telling that Mosely would rather have started Suggs and low volume Gary than Fultz or Cole. Defense matters to Mosely. Floor spacing does too. Orlando needs to get rid of these guys that don’t shoot either at all of on regular volume. Like I said in the other threads… As much as I love Suggs he is not a point guard. He isn’t running an offense or creating off the dribble like one. Orlando needs to get rid of Fultz, G.Harris, Okeke, etc. and bring in a point guard that can compliment the core.

At this point I’d probably get rid of Isaac for the right price too. Sorry, you aren’t giving this team much if you are worth more on the market than in 8 min stretches every other game and basically a no show in the playoffs. Doesn’t matter if you are an elite defender. This team is fine defensively in the starting unit without him. They need guys that can score the basketball.

[bigdogdylan5]

Ironically FVV might fit that bill and he could have been had but obviously he would have caused defensive issues.

[Knightro]

I said it before the season and I say it now…

Gary Harris since leaving Denver has been nothing but a role player off the bench. He’s never been anything more. You can’t be a starter in the league if you aren’t attempting shots. Yes he provides good defense. Yes he shows up every 1/5 in the box score. That doesn’t make him a starter.

It’s also telling that Mosely would rather have started Suggs and low volume Gary than Fultz or Cole. Defense matters to Mosely. Floor spacing does too. Orlando needs to get rid of these guys that don’t shoot either at all of on regular volume. Like I said in the other threads… As much as I love Suggs he is not a point guard. He isn’t running an offense or creating off the dribble like one. Orlando needs to get rid of Fultz, G.Harris, Okeke, etc. and bring in a point guard that can compliment the core.

At this point I’d probably get rid of Isaac for the right price too. Sorry, you aren’t giving this team much if you are worth more on the market than in 8 min stretches every other game and basically a no show in the playoffs. Doesn’t matter if you are an elite defender. This team is fine defensively in the starting unit without him. They need guys that can score the basketball.

Regardless of Gary's ability at this point, we're talking pure math here.

It doesn't really matter how good or bad a player is. If they touch the basketball 15 times a game, they're not going to average very many shots.

Until some of the ball movement issues are addressed, which almost certainly is going to at the very least require the Magic to bring in an actual point guard, you're going to see a low volume 3PT team among other things.

[Jaxfann]

If I'm Weltman, I'm keeping a boxscore sheet of this game when Franz' and Suggs' agents come looking to get overpaid. I love both but the FO can't mismanage cap space.

Very prescient!

[drsd]

..

[drsd]

Max Strus attempted 10.4 shots per game.
Gary Harris attempted 5.5 shots per game.

These are your words.

Regardless of Gary's ability at this point, we're talking pure math here.

It doesn't really matter how good or bad a player is. If they touch the basketball 15 times a game, they're not going to average very many shots.

This is the only point I ever try to make. Thank you for clarifying my thoughts!

[drsd]

Another boxscore thought about drsd - Gary plays and Mitchel and Garland combine for 14-40 or 35% at home
Gary doesnt play on friday - Mitchel and garland go for 32-53 or 61% at Orlando

Please answer this question: what was the cause of Banchero, F-Wagner, and Suggs missing 44 FG attempts? That is the reason the Magic lost this game. If you are arguing that G-Harris' defense on Cleveland guards is why he was 100% ineffective offensively, well .... not sure what to say about this. It's a two-way game.

[Knightro]

Max Strus attempted 10.4 shots per game.
Gary Harris attempted 5.5 shots per game.

These are your words.

Regardless of Gary's ability at this point, we're talking pure math here.

It doesn't really matter how good or bad a player is. If they touch the basketball 15 times a game, they're not going to average very many shots.

This is the only point I ever try to make. Thank you for clarifying my thoughts!

You have routinely blamed Gary the last 2+ seasons including several times today for his lack of shot volume and how damaging it is to the Magic's offense, but the issue is just significantly more nuanced than that.

Replacing a low volume shooter with a high volume shooter, but leaving the shot creators and the way the offense executes to get certain players certain shots is going to lead to more of the same.

[DiplomaticMagic]

We didnt lose because of this. But I really dislike Mosleys rotations, they were even worse in playoffs. Who the hell employs an all bench lineup to start the 4th qtr when we are down 9 pts??? Was there even another team in playoffs that employed an all bench lineup??? I know OKC went 10 deep. But i dont know if they went all of them at once.

I would say thats such a rookie move, but even a rookie should know not to do that in playoffs. I really hope we add a strong lead assistant to our bench but I have doubts we will do that. But that will be as big as adding a bigtime shooter imo.