2024 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 7: (5) Orlando Magic at (4) Cleveland Cavaliers - Series Tied 3-3

[Ducklett]

Worst FG% on high volume in game 7 history is an insight I could live without.

Speaks to how great this team is, though. We were firmly in the game, never letting go of the rope, despite historically poor shooting from Franz, with Suggs close behind.

Honestly, having clarity on our pecking order can be a good thing going forward. Franz will continue to be an advanced stats darling because he is an elite defender with a hyper efficient and effective offensive game.

If he would have balled out in game 7, he'd go from his top 20 trajectory into a top 10 trajectory. That's how difficult it is to have great performances in a game 7.

I have zero doubts that he's our second option.

For Suggs, I'm still not convinced he's third option material, but I think he's done enough to warrant the reps. While the core is still on their rookie scale contracts we are still focused on player development.

If Franz is our 2nd option, this is probably our cap, first round, maybe 2nd if we get lucky Pacers style.
He shot 27% in Cleveland in 4 games. But most importantly, he played scared today. He is world champion, why he shat his panths?
Suggs at least kept his temperament and played with the same bravado he always does. Franz looked lost.

I think we shouldn't consider Suggs as our third option in a perfect world if he is going to be blowing all his energy on defense. No way he can keep it up if he has to do heavy lifting on both sides.

[PrimeThyme]

Highest payed player on a roster is being babied whole year ( several years in fact) just to be "fresh" for playoffs, to play 21 min and average 5 points ,4 rebounds and 1 block?
And his "out of a world defense" turned into him struggling to stay in front of Levert and being dwarfed by Allen ?

Franz had terrible game, Isaac looks like irrelevant role player each and every game. Again, as player who didn't play back to backs, who had scheduled rest games in his schedule, who people here claim is "best defender in nba".

In two elimination games he scores 2 points, 0 steals 1 block.

I'm not arguing that Isaac played well. I'm arguing that it doesn't matter in comparison. For what we need from Franz as a second option, he had a bad series, in my opinion. If Franz had shot 38% from three in this series, we would have won.

Instead, Franz is 1-15 in a closeout game, deeply in his head every time he catches the ball on the perimeter and forcing drives as he did most of the season because he has zero confidence in his shot.

Everyone else, Paolo and Suggs, took major strides with their shooting this season. Franz majorily regressed. Suggs didn't shoot well this game, but he was still shooting confidently. Franz lost that this season, which is majorly concerning longterm.

[SOUL]

No, he wasn't. That's an exaggeration. He wasn't even top ten in minutes played.

Every advanced stat had his on court impact as higher than anyone on the team and our W-L record as well with him healthy versus him not since his injury is extremely telling. Our defense was way better with him in, and his offense picked up in the second half of the season.

Please do not point to sweater vests lol, and also please do not let a stinker series also change the narrative.

[Rainwater]

Worst FG% on high volume in game 7 history is an insight I could live without.

Speaks to how great this team is, though. We were firmly in the game, never letting go of the rope, despite historically poor shooting from Franz, with Suggs close behind.

Honestly, having clarity on our pecking order can be a good thing going forward. Franz will continue to be an advanced stats darling because he is an elite defender with a hyper efficient and effective offensive game.

If he would have balled out in game 7, he'd go from his top 20 trajectory into a top 10 trajectory. That's how difficult it is to have great performances in a game 7.

I have zero doubts that he's our second option.

For Suggs, I'm still not convinced he's third option material, but I think he's done enough to warrant the reps. While the core is still on their rookie scale contracts we are still focused on player development.

I don’t see how people view Suggs as a third option. He only avgs 13 points, most his shots are created for him, he really isn’t much of creator at all. I feel like his best role is similar to what AG is in Denver.

I feel like when people see 20+ points for Suggs, they think he is getting that on his own. But those shots are being created by others, mostly Paolo and Franz.

His usage is around third option territory and he's improved efficiency each season. I think he still has another level to reach with improvement to his handle.

Low-key though I think AB's offensive upside is higher due to his free throw rate and off-ball IQ, areas where he's superior to Suggs. We'll see. Could all be moot if we trade for a young player that's already established as 3rd option material.

I think that more due to necessity rather than Suggs capabilities

[ogmagicfan]

Funny thing is I'm actually headed to cancun very soon lol maybe I'll see some nba players there

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

This is the first chuckle I've had since we lost the game

[eyriq]

No, he wasn't. That's an exaggeration. He wasn't even top ten in minutes played.

Every advanced stat had his on court impact as higher than anyone on the team and our W-L record as well with him healthy versus him not since his injury is extremely telling. Our defense was way better with him in, and his offense picked up in the second half of the season.

Please do not point to sweater vests lol, and also please do not let a stinker series also change the narrative.

I've consistently pushed back on the narrative, and stood on the counter point that JI wasn't a critical driver of regular season success due to his limited minutes. He definitely grades out well in the limited reps he got but poor availability and low minutes per game were issues all year.

[thelead]

No, he wasn't. That's an exaggeration. He wasn't even top ten in minutes played.

Every advanced stat had his on court impact as higher than anyone on the team and our W-L record as well with him healthy versus him not since his injury is extremely telling. Our defense was way better with him in, and his offense picked up in the second half of the season.

Please do not point to sweater vests lol, and also please do not let a stinker series also change the narrative.

It's pretty strange since I thought eryiq was an advanced stats guy...

[PrimeThyme]

I've loved Franz as a player, but I'm just wanting to address the elephant in the room.

I'm racking my brain at people discussing our **** 7th man or Paolo as a first option after what we just watched this season and in this series.

Franz without a 3pt shot drastically changes this team's ceiling. This wasn't a series, this was an entire season. I just feel that we need to be thinking more about what this means for us going forward.

[eyriq]

No, he wasn't. That's an exaggeration. He wasn't even top ten in minutes played.

Every advanced stat had his on court impact as higher than anyone on the team and our W-L record as well with him healthy versus him not since his injury is extremely telling. Our defense was way better with him in, and his offense picked up in the second half of the season.

Please do not point to sweater vests lol, and also please do not let a stinker series also change the narrative.

It's pretty strange since I thought eryiq was an advanced stats guy...

I am but in his case it's an argument for scaling him up to have a bigger impact not to say that he's having a huge impact on such limited usage.

[thelead]

Every advanced stat had his on court impact as higher than anyone on the team and our W-L record as well with him healthy versus him not since his injury is extremely telling. Our defense was way better with him in, and his offense picked up in the second half of the season.

Please do not point to sweater vests lol, and also please do not let a stinker series also change the narrative.

It's pretty strange since I thought eryiq was an advanced stats guy...

I am but in his case it's an argument for scaling him up to have a bigger impact not to say that he's having a huge impact on such limited usage.

but what 'scaling up' data do you have to say that it can't scale? And even if it doesn't, having a high-impact 18mpg guy is huge. Not every player is going to be an all-nba player. Instead of focusing on getting rid of good players, we should look at cutting dead weight first.

[SOUL]

I've consistently pushed back on the narrative, and stood on the counter point that JI wasn't a critical driver of regular season success due to his limited minutes. He definitely grades out well in the limited reps he got but poor availability and low minutes per game were issues all year.

Have you? I've seen you advocate for the death lineup a lot until it sucked that one game and then you've just been on some "Isaac isn't our future and is bad" crusade.

A lot of things can be true at once. Isaac may not scale great (sweet spot is around 20 minutes), he had a stinker series versus a team that wasn't a great matchup... and he is also very important to our defense.

Our bench was a huge strength this year, and our bench also has Cole, Fultz, Moe and Ingles on it. If you think any of those guys are anywhere near positive players as they had been, in a vacuum.. ESPECIALLY defensively without Isaac on the court.. I have news for you.

[Knightro]

I've loved Franz as a player, but I'm just wanting to address the elephant in the room.

I'm racking my brain at people discussing our **** 7th man or Paolo as a first option after what we just watched this season and in this series.

Franz without a 3pt shot drastically changes this team's ceiling. This wasn't a series, this was an entire season. I just feel that we need to be thinking more about what this means for us going forward.

Nothing you’re saying is incorrect, but you still give him a fair extension (and it’s gonna be a big one) and just trade him away later if the shooting piece doesn’t tick back up.

[Rainwater]

I feel like when people see 20+ points for Suggs, they think he is getting that on his own. But those shots are being created by others, mostly Paolo and Franz.

He has to show that his shot is for real, but his mechanics are pretty great and he is our highest volume three point shooter. I think he's had a bum wrist the whole year too. He also played a bit of a passive role but he can create for himself pretty well.

I think if he learns how to incorporate the mid game more and draw fouls a bit more often, then I mean.. I honestly have more faith at Suggs settling into a #3 role right now than Franz as a #2, just because that of his shot. It's a lower bar but imo easier to see.

Although we may always want his energy on defense too.

I think he has proven me wrong and his shot is real but I will admit he has been inconsistent. Look at this the home games vs aways games for example.

And maybe it’s the way the magic run their offense or just Suggs’ passive nature but I just don’t see the shot the creation. It typically Paolo and Franz running the show.

While I do think Franz will be fine, I do question if he and Suggs can be true 2nd and 3rd options respectively. I just don’t want come off as reactionary

[eyriq]

I've consistently pushed back on the narrative, and stood on the counter point that JI wasn't a critical driver of regular season success due to his limited minutes. He definitely grades out well in the limited reps he got but poor availability and low minutes per game were issues all year.

Have you? I've seen you advocate for the death lineup a lot until it sucked that one game and then you've just been on some "Isaac isn't our future and is bad" crusade.

A lot of things can be true at once. Isaac may not scale great (sweet spot is around 20 minutes), he had a stinker series versus a team that wasn't a great matchup... and he is also very important to our defense.

Our bench was a huge strength this year, and our bench also has Cole, Fultz, Moe and Ingles on it. If you think any of those guys are anywhere near positive players as they had been, in a vacuum.. ESPECIALLY defensively without Isaac on the court.. I have news for you.

I advocated for the death lineup because I wanted to scale him up. If he could scale at that level of impact, he'd be our best freaking player. I have my doubts now about his ability to scale, it just is what it is. But that's a different argument from measuring the magnitude of his impact in the regular season. I think the advanced stats point to him being highly impactful in limited reps which is why many considered him an x factor if we could scale him up. The inability to scale him up has been a huge disappointment.

[pepe1991]

I've consistently pushed back on the narrative, and stood on the counter point that JI wasn't a critical driver of regular season success due to his limited minutes. He definitely grades out well in the limited reps he got but poor availability and low minutes per game were issues all year.

Have you? I've seen you advocate for the death lineup a lot until it sucked that one game and then you've just been on some "Isaac isn't our future and is bad" crusade.

A lot of things can be true at once. Isaac may not scale great (sweet spot is around 20 minutes), he had a stinker series versus a team that wasn't a great matchup... and he is also very important to our defense.

Our bench was a huge strength this year, and our bench also has Cole, Fultz, Moe and Ingles on it. If you think any of those guys are anywhere near positive players as they had been, in a vacuum.. ESPECIALLY defensively without Isaac on the court.. I have news for you.

This is second playoffs for him, he is what, 27 years old, he sucked vs Raptors as well

He is great regular season role player in very limited role,while playing 50% of games.

I'm not sure how Cavs are bad matchup for him? They are only team with 2 bigs who can't shoot, that alone allowed him to stay home all the time, but instad of him dominating them, they waxed him. So it's not about bad matchup , it's him being outplayed.
Mobley is defacto same arhytype as him, but unlike Isaac, he wasn't usless on offense and is capable of playing more than 20 min of basketball after 4 years of rest

Isaac simply does not have next gear, he plays random. 35th game vs some sorry 3-30 Pistons like its playoffs and there is some value in that for sure, but once playoffs roll, his regular season impact is not that impactful.

He would be great addition for some Suns team. For us it's hard to have so many people who offer next to nothing on offense.

[Redwood]

No, Franz being the worst shooter in Game 7 history is cringe. 3/28 shooting from your #2 and #3 guys is cringe.

PB didn't shoot well either, it just wasn't as noticeable given how poorly others played. Nobody really played well, which is expected from a young team in a game 7. PB at least got to the line, which your top players need to do, so that's a plus.

You know why he didn’t shoot well right? Cleveland knew nobody else was a threat and packed the paint. He was playing 1v5 for most of the night.

Star players are star players because they make things happen. Tmac was on some horrendous Magic teams but repeatedly torched teams and won scoring titles. And that was during an era where defense was still played, and nearly every team protected the rim. This is the easiest to score in era the NBA has ever seen.

PB is still young, clearly not expecting him to be Tmac, just saying the pressure got to him a bit too. He'll get better though, very confident in that. The good thing is he no longer has to worry about playing in his first playoff series, or game 7, or away game 7. All checked off the list now.

[SOUL]

Also its funny post game Banchero is like: "We wouldn't here without Franz, man. This is our first playoffs, I'm sure he's going to work hard and come back better.. there's been a lot of games where I felt like I didn't do enough offensively, it happens.."

Some posters: "BANCHERO WILL LEAVE IF HE HAS BUM TEAMMATES, FRANZ ISN'T HIM, OUR FUTURE IS BASED OFF OF ONE GAME"

[tooler]

I missed the game because I was out of town with one of my kids. I'm sorry to see they lost and I'm sorry to see Franz and Jalen sucked. Better luck next time.

[SOUL]

I think the advanced stats point to him being highly impactful in limited reps which is why many considered him an x factor if we could scale him up. The inability to scale him up has been a huge disappointment.

Well, this is what I was referring to though.. which you said wasn't true lol. He was very impactful in his minutes. That wasn't a mirage. Him not scaling well or maybe being a bad playoff performer COULD be a thing.. but his impact on the regular season to get us here was very concrete.

[eyriq]

The hard part of the rebuild is over, we got our superstar

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