Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II

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[pepe1991]

I don't think what some of you suggesting is "zagging" , it's more just unfuncional basketball that you try to re-event to fit strange roster peaces that make no sense.

Why Ingram would work with Banchero and Franz if same Ingram does not work with Zion ( who averages 0,4 apg less than Banchero) and Muprhy and Herb who are similar players to Franz but who actually shoot well?


BI isn't playmaker, much like Banchero isn't neither, they are players who milk 30% usage rate. They are way more similar to Derozan in their playstyles than they are to winning basketball players like some Lebron or Giannis. You simply have no reasons to have TWO of same players on the floor. Banchero and BI all do the same, they hold ball , they shoot mid range, their efficiency is around league's average and lot of times they need refs to bail them out and send them to FT line.
BI isn't great shooter from distance nor he ever showed any desire to actually shoot many 3s. His highest 3FGA per game is 6. That was 4 years ago, now it's less than a 4.

Ingram to Magic is completen nonsense in terms of a fit. He is nothing but underweight SF at 6'8 & some 185 pounds who can't stay healthy. Why he is being proposed to Magic? Because Pelicans are better off and they know he won't resign on small market team because he and Simmons view themselfs higher than they are.

if i'm getting rental of s**y Derozan, i would actually prefer actual- Derozan for a year than Ingram, knowing he will ask for some $180M contract or leave in 10 months.

Giannis didn't win as much as Banchero did as a young player. The Bucks made the playoffs finally when he was 22 and they lost in 6 games. When he was 23, the Bucks were around 500 and lost in 7 games.

I'm just not sure how you can say Banchero isn't a winning player like Giannis. The Bucks won a championship when Giannis was 26, but the team has evolved into having one of the highest payrolls. The Magic are 4-5 seasons away from being one of the highest payrolls.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=banchpa01&p1yrfrom=2024&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=antetgi01&p2yrfrom=2016&p2yrto=2016

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Literally in link you posted, it's marked that in 7 out of 11 categories Giannis was better

and that's "baby Giannis" who very next year turned into:
7th in MVP race
MIP
allstar
all nba second team member
all nba defensive team member
one of best individual defenders in the world

[basketballRob]

I don't think what some of you suggesting is "zagging" , it's more just unfuncional basketball that you try to re-event to fit strange roster peaces that make no sense.

Why Ingram would work with Banchero and Franz if same Ingram does not work with Zion ( who averages 0,4 apg less than Banchero) and Muprhy and Herb who are similar players to Franz but who actually shoot well?


BI isn't playmaker, much like Banchero isn't neither, they are players who milk 30% usage rate. They are way more similar to Derozan in their playstyles than they are to winning basketball players like some Lebron or Giannis. You simply have no reasons to have TWO of same players on the floor. Banchero and BI all do the same, they hold ball , they shoot mid range, their efficiency is around league's average and lot of times they need refs to bail them out and send them to FT line.
BI isn't great shooter from distance nor he ever showed any desire to actually shoot many 3s. His highest 3FGA per game is 6. That was 4 years ago, now it's less than a 4.

Ingram to Magic is completen nonsense in terms of a fit. He is nothing but underweight SF at 6'8 & some 185 pounds who can't stay healthy. Why he is being proposed to Magic? Because Pelicans are better off and they know he won't resign on small market team because he and Simmons view themselfs higher than they are.

if i'm getting rental of s**y Derozan, i would actually prefer actual- Derozan for a year than Ingram, knowing he will ask for some $180M contract or leave in 10 months.

Giannis didn't win as much as Banchero did as a young player. The Bucks made the playoffs finally when he was 22 and they lost in 6 games. When he was 23, the Bucks were around 500 and lost in 7 games.

I'm just not sure how you can say Banchero isn't a winning player like Giannis. The Bucks won a championship when Giannis was 26, but the team has evolved into having one of the highest payrolls. The Magic are 4-5 seasons away from being one of the highest payrolls.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=banchpa01&p1yrfrom=2024&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=antetgi01&p2yrfrom=2016&p2yrto=2016

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Literally in link you posted, it's marked that in 7 out of 11 categories Giannis was better

and that's "baby Giannis" who very next year turned into:
7th in MVP race
MIP
allstar
all nba second team member
all nba defensive team member
one of best individual defenders in the world

So, in Giannis' 4th season, he broke out? Where do you think Paolo's trajectory is going? Paolo will probably add more muscle and learn to shoot better in the future. His peak could look like 30 ppg, 8 rpg, 7 apg. That's an mvp candidate. Paolo could end up with more playoff success than Giannis because he's going to be harder to game plan for.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[MagicMatic]

I don't think what some of you suggesting is "zagging" , it's more just unfuncional basketball that you try to re-event to fit strange roster peaces that make no sense.

Why Ingram would work with Banchero and Franz if same Ingram does not work with Zion ( who averages 0,4 apg less than Banchero) and Muprhy and Herb who are similar players to Franz but who actually shoot well?


BI isn't playmaker, much like Banchero isn't neither, they are players who milk 30% usage rate. They are way more similar to Derozan in their playstyles than they are to winning basketball players like some Lebron or Giannis. You simply have no reasons to have TWO of same players on the floor. Banchero and BI all do the same, they hold ball , they shoot mid range, their efficiency is around league's average and lot of times they need refs to bail them out and send them to FT line.
BI isn't great shooter from distance nor he ever showed any desire to actually shoot many 3s. His highest 3FGA per game is 6. That was 4 years ago, now it's less than a 4.

Ingram to Magic is completen nonsense in terms of a fit. He is nothing but underweight SF at 6'8 & some 185 pounds who can't stay healthy. Why he is being proposed to Magic? Because Pelicans are better off and they know he won't resign on small market team because he and Simmons view themselfs higher than they are.

if i'm getting rental of s**y Derozan, i would actually prefer actual- Derozan for a year than Ingram, knowing he will ask for some $180M contract or leave in 10 months.

Giannis didn't win as much as Banchero did as a young player. The Bucks made the playoffs finally when he was 22 and they lost in 6 games. When he was 23, the Bucks were around 500 and lost in 7 games.

I'm just not sure how you can say Banchero isn't a winning player like Giannis. The Bucks won a championship when Giannis was 26, but the team has evolved into having one of the highest payrolls. The Magic are 4-5 seasons away from being one of the highest payrolls.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=banchpa01&p1yrfrom=2024&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=antetgi01&p2yrfrom=2016&p2yrto=2016

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Literally in link you posted, it's marked that in 7 out of 11 categories Giannis was better

and that's "baby Giannis" who very next year turned into:
7th in MVP race
MIP
allstar
all nba second team member
all nba defensive team member
one of best individual defenders in the world

I mean.. I have my criticisms of Paolo's game too, but this is a pretty bad comparison. Not sure who initially made the comparison. You are discounting the idea that Paolo wont get exponentially better... Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Why do you do this to yourself? lol. There is no upside making these proclamations.




This is year 3 21 year old Giannis numbers against year 2 21 year old Paolo. Not to mention they are also vastly different players with vastly different responsibilities and teammates.

Now, I'll definitely agree that BI isn't a good fit on this roster playing next to Franz and Paolo. It's like people are reading the names of "available" guys and just plugging them into a lineup regardless of if it makes sense whatsoever on a basketball court. Not every available player makes sense because someone read a name in a headline somewhere on Twitter.

[pepe1991]

Giannis didn't win as much as Banchero did as a young player. The Bucks made the playoffs finally when he was 22 and they lost in 6 games. When he was 23, the Bucks were around 500 and lost in 7 games.

I'm just not sure how you can say Banchero isn't a winning player like Giannis. The Bucks won a championship when Giannis was 26, but the team has evolved into having one of the highest payrolls. The Magic are 4-5 seasons away from being one of the highest payrolls.

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=banchpa01&p1yrfrom=2024&p1yrto=2024&player_id2=antetgi01&p2yrfrom=2016&p2yrto=2016

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Literally in link you posted, it's marked that in 7 out of 11 categories Giannis was better

and that's "baby Giannis" who very next year turned into:
7th in MVP race
MIP
allstar
all nba second team member
all nba defensive team member
one of best individual defenders in the world

I mean.. I have my criticisms of Paolo's game too, but this is a pretty bad comparison. Not sure who initially made the comparison. You are discounting the idea that Paolo wont get exponentially better... Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Why do you do this to yourself? lol. There is no upside making these proclamations.




This is year 3 21 year old Giannis numbers against year 2 21 year old Paolo. Not to mention they are also vastly different players with vastly different responsibilities and teammates.

Now, I'll definitely agree that BI isn't a good fit on this roster playing next to Franz and Paolo. It's like people are reading the names of "available" guys and just plugging them into a lineup regardless of if it makes sense whatsoever on a basketball court. Not every available player makes sense because someone read a name in a headline somewhere on Twitter.

My words.

BI isn't playmaker, much like Banchero isn't neither, they are players who milk 30% usage rate. They are way more similar to Derozan in their playstyles than they are to winning basketball players like some Lebron or Giannis

In year 3 Giannis was month younger in actual age than Paolo was in year 2. But that's irrelevant, Giannis had most unusual growth nba has ever seen, he was 7th in MIP race 2015, 3rd in 2016 and winner in 2017.

Even if you ignore offense, there is defensive side of Giannis ( top 5 defender for years) that Paolo will never reach.
I think in 2021 playoffs his existence on floor and out of floor had teams shooting league's worst around rim with him playing, vs way above lague average whenever he wasn't on the floor. Matter of fact whole Bucks defensive strategy was to lure guard inside 10 feet to gang on ballhandler with Giannis to challenge ,and defend strong side with Lopez. That turned into championship strategy.

I expect Banchero to get better, do i belive he will ever come close to peak GIannis? Not even close, at one point Giannis was best basketball player on planet Earth who menaged to score 50 points in game where his team won championship, and he is one of 5 players ever to win DPOY & MVP in same year in company of Garnett, Hakeem, Jordan and David Robinson. Oh and he is yet to turn 30 so it's not like Giannis is going anywhere any time soon.

Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Than playoffs happened and he looked execlly how he looked in year 2 when it comes to shooting and lack of diversity in scoring .


I fully agree with whole last paragraph. Ingram is aveliable because his name value is higher than playing value. Pelicans want to cash out that chip, we have salary cap and that's why we are connected to him. Or at least i hope so.

[MagicMatic]

Literally in link you posted, it's marked that in 7 out of 11 categories Giannis was better

and that's "baby Giannis" who very next year turned into:
7th in MVP race
MIP
allstar
all nba second team member
all nba defensive team member
one of best individual defenders in the world

I mean.. I have my criticisms of Paolo's game too, but this is a pretty bad comparison. Not sure who initially made the comparison. You are discounting the idea that Paolo wont get exponentially better... Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Why do you do this to yourself? lol. There is no upside making these proclamations.




This is year 3 21 year old Giannis numbers against year 2 21 year old Paolo. Not to mention they are also vastly different players with vastly different responsibilities and teammates.

Now, I'll definitely agree that BI isn't a good fit on this roster playing next to Franz and Paolo. It's like people are reading the names of "available" guys and just plugging them into a lineup regardless of if it makes sense whatsoever on a basketball court. Not every available player makes sense because someone read a name in a headline somewhere on Twitter.

My words.

BI isn't playmaker, much like Banchero isn't neither, they are players who milk 30% usage rate. They are way more similar to Derozan in their playstyles than they are to winning basketball players like some Lebron or Giannis

In year 3 Giannis was month younger in actual age than Paolo was in year 2. But that's irrelevant, Giannis had most unusual growth nba has ever seen, he was 7th in MIP race 2015, 3rd in 2016 and winner in 2017.

Even if you ignore offense, there is defensive side of Giannis ( top 5 defender for years) that Paolo will never reach.
I think in 2021 playoffs his existence on floor and out of floor had teams shooting league's worst around rim with him playing, vs way above lague average whenever he wasn't on the floor. Matter of fact whole Bucks defensive strategy was to lure guard inside 10 feet to gang on ballhandler with Giannis to challenge ,and defend strong side with Lopez. That turned into championship strategy.

I expect Banchero to get better, do i belive he will ever come close to peak GIannis? Not even close, at one point Giannis was best basketball player on planet Earth who menaged to score 50 points in game where his team won championship, and he is one of 5 players ever to win DPOY & MVP in same year in company of Garnett, Hakeem, Jordan and David Robinson. Oh and he is yet to turn 30 so it's not like Giannis is going anywhere any time soon.

Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Than playoffs happened and he looked execlly how he looked in year 2 when it comes to shooting and lack of diversity in scoring .


I fully agree with whole last paragraph. Ingram is aveliable because his name value is higher than playing value. Pelicans want to cash out that chip, we have salary cap and that's why we are connected to him. Or at least i hope so.

Just different players altogether tbh. Giannis is a freak athlete defensive player that spends entire games driving to the rim and getting to the line. Paolo is a finesse face up PF that can be a better playmaker surrounded with better talent. Not sure why nba fans feel the need to compare everyone without greater context. Teams, Roles, etc. It’s simply a foolish exercise that nobody learns from. Regardless, Gianni’s’ game won’t translate long term we are already seeing it won’t due to physicality.

I love the backtrack on Suggs. Bust to role player, role player to non shooting starter, shooter to inconsistent in the playoffs. Wow that progressed pretty quickly in one season. Have you considered that ALL the young core guys are exponentially worse on the road than at home? That’s usually the case and absolutely the case with Suggs. Maybe you keeping hot takes to yourself before players turn 23-24 is a far wiser move.

There are few guys that available that make sense on this roster for the price. Ingram isn’t one of them.

[pepe1991]

I mean.. I have my criticisms of Paolo's game too, but this is a pretty bad comparison. Not sure who initially made the comparison. You are discounting the idea that Paolo wont get exponentially better... Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Why do you do this to yourself? lol. There is no upside making these proclamations.




This is year 3 21 year old Giannis numbers against year 2 21 year old Paolo. Not to mention they are also vastly different players with vastly different responsibilities and teammates.

Now, I'll definitely agree that BI isn't a good fit on this roster playing next to Franz and Paolo. It's like people are reading the names of "available" guys and just plugging them into a lineup regardless of if it makes sense whatsoever on a basketball court. Not every available player makes sense because someone read a name in a headline somewhere on Twitter.

My words.

BI isn't playmaker, much like Banchero isn't neither, they are players who milk 30% usage rate. They are way more similar to Derozan in their playstyles than they are to winning basketball players like some Lebron or Giannis

In year 3 Giannis was month younger in actual age than Paolo was in year 2. But that's irrelevant, Giannis had most unusual growth nba has ever seen, he was 7th in MIP race 2015, 3rd in 2016 and winner in 2017.

Even if you ignore offense, there is defensive side of Giannis ( top 5 defender for years) that Paolo will never reach.
I think in 2021 playoffs his existence on floor and out of floor had teams shooting league's worst around rim with him playing, vs way above lague average whenever he wasn't on the floor. Matter of fact whole Bucks defensive strategy was to lure guard inside 10 feet to gang on ballhandler with Giannis to challenge ,and defend strong side with Lopez. That turned into championship strategy.

I expect Banchero to get better, do i belive he will ever come close to peak GIannis? Not even close, at one point Giannis was best basketball player on planet Earth who menaged to score 50 points in game where his team won championship, and he is one of 5 players ever to win DPOY & MVP in same year in company of Garnett, Hakeem, Jordan and David Robinson. Oh and he is yet to turn 30 so it's not like Giannis is going anywhere any time soon.

Similar to believing that Suggs in year 1-2 is the same guy in year 3.

Than playoffs happened and he looked execlly how he looked in year 2 when it comes to shooting and lack of diversity in scoring .


I fully agree with whole last paragraph. Ingram is aveliable because his name value is higher than playing value. Pelicans want to cash out that chip, we have salary cap and that's why we are connected to him. Or at least i hope so.

Just different players altogether tbh. Giannis is a freak athlete defensive player that spends entire games driving to the rim and getting to the line. Paolo is a finesse face up PF that can be a better playmaker surrounded with better talent. Not sure why nba fans feel the need to compare everyone without greater context. Teams, Roles, etc. It’s simply a foolish exercise that nobody learns from. Regardless, Gianni’s’ game won’t translate long term we are already seeing it won’t due to physicality.

I love the backtrack on Suggs. Bust to role player, role player to non shooting starter, shooter to inconsistent in the playoffs. Wow that progressed pretty quickly in one season. Have you considered that ALL the young core guys are exponentially worse on the road than at home? That’s usually the case and absolutely the case with Suggs. Maybe you keeping hot takes to yourself before players turn 23-24 is a far wiser move.

There are few guys that available that make sense on this roster for the price. Ingram isn’t one of them.

Shooting whole bunch of mid range jumpers on average efficiency and fishing for cheap fouls to get to FT line is arhtype that nobody views as "winning basketball style" tho. You would have said the same if he is on 29 other teams . We will see what Paolo can become.
Giannis played 73 games this year, he just got hurt in worst time. Not that Bucks did anything to prevent it, he played most MPG in past 6 years,


Suggs talk and bickering and will get us nowhere, you say i backtrack, i say you go hiding when he plays poorly and line up excuses.. All labels you mentioned above, starting with "bust role player" are made up exclusivlly by you, to fight your imagainary enemies.
To me he was role player in year 1, year 2 and year 3 , difference between regular season & playoffs was bigger pressure and bit better defense ( not like Cavs were good defensive team, just average one) but it was enough to revert his shooting from 40% to 29%. We will see what future brings, and i'll stop there.


I don't think Ingram makes any roster better, given salary. His points, assists, rebounds can easly be spread around other players to a point nobody notictes him missing ( Pelicans now have two years and like 40 games sample with winning record- without Ingram)

[GelbeWand09]

Thinking Paolo will ever be on Giannis level is delusional. Gianni is one of the best 2 way players ever. Paolo is a offense only player who scores under league average efficiency, while Gianni is one of the 3-4 most efficient scorers ever. Both live driving to the hoop. Gianni is a freak athlete, with freak length, who finishes on Shaq level or better. Paolo is a good athlete with average length, who has to finish with finesse moves but got no touch. So he needs freethrows to have efficient games, but you are completely dependent on how the referees whistle from game to game. When he doesn't get to the line he has to hit midrange shots and those super inefficient turnarounds.

About Ingram. Pepe said it all.

[MagicMatic]

Thinking Paolo will ever be on Giannis level is delusional. Gianni is one of the best 2 way players ever. Paolo is a offense only player who scores under league average efficiency, while Gianni is one of the 3-4 most efficient scorers ever. Both live driving to the hoop. Gianni is a freak athlete, with freak length, who finishes on Shaq level or better. Paolo is a good athlete with average length, who has to finish with finesse moves but got no touch. So he needs freethrows to have efficient games, but you are completely dependent on how the referees whistle from game to game. When he doesn't get to the line he has to hit midrange shots and those super inefficient turnarounds.

About Ingram. Pepe said it all.

Except nobody once claimed Paolo was Giannis or that he was better. Believe me when I say I don’t necessarily like Paolo’s game as it translates to winning basketball from what we have seen.

I’m just pushing back on this idea that people incorrectly assume they know what the ceiling of a player is in year 1-3 because they put them into neat little categories in their head. Confirmation bias or delusion be damned when they are proven wrong after making these large statements or generalizations.

It’s also funny to claim someone goes into “hiding” when a player has a bad game. This guy was nowhere to be seen all year and appears when the dust settles after a playoff series Orlando loses for obvious reasons, due mainly inexperience and roster construction, blaming players that got them there in the first place.

[Residual-Heat]

Minnesota, the 16th ranked offense in the NBA has reached the WCF. Size+ defense is the new success formula IMO.

[Skybox]

Minnesota, the 16th ranked offense in the NBA has reached the WCF. Size+ defense is the new success formula IMO.

16th would be amazing for us...and very doable with a productive summer.

[Residual-Heat]

1- Do you think if we added Jrue this offseason we couldve made the ECF?
2- If yes, would you have given up more assets than the Celtics did?

[eyriq]

1- Do you think if we added Jrue this offseason we couldve made the ECF?
2- If yes, would you have given up more assets than the Celtics did?

He gave the Celtics 13/5/5 on 48/43/83 splits, and was a significant contributor to them being the best team in the league. He'd be the best guard on our team this season. That's quite the boost, probably worth home court advantage in the first round, maybe even in the second round. Still though, doesn't make us a contender and it doesn't make sense in the long run to give up assets for what looks like in hindsight was a real opportunity to make the conference finals.

[yoyojw17]

Like.... talk about intimidation!

[basketballRob]

For some reason the phone app isn't working now.

[eyriq]

For some reason the phone app isn't working now.

Really sad

I need the app to work

[ogmagicfan]

We really need to give both Franz & Suggs contract extensions this season before the cap jump

[KillMonger]

Wonder if we're going to get a replacement for nate? Or promote from within? I think we need to bring in an offensive minded coach

[Skybox]

Caleb Houstan is a legit catch and shoot ace. Tall. High release point. Quick release. Clearly knows his role and strength is bombing 3's. He can flat out shoot and he's one of the few on ORL who routinely pulls up with a defender nearby. How does he take the next step to be on the national radar like a Hield or Kennard?

But, to my recollection, he's exclusively a standstill shooter (AB as well). We don't really have anyone who's constantly in motion, curls around picks, and pulls up with confidence. Reggie Miller, Steph, and JJ Reddick are extreme elite examples...but I'd like to see ORL put on some kind of minicamp just to develop that...invite Suggs, Jett, Black, Cole, maybe everybody...but it seems like a teachable skill - particularly if you've already got good shot mechanics and confidence. I really wanted Hawkins - just for that image of sprinting through the paint and curling tightly through some picks to catch, elevate, and launch like Ray Allen. We just don't run that "play"...maybe it's personnel, I know it requires elite conditioning and set plays to be among the names mentioned, but, on a smaller scale, it seems like it wouldn't be a revolutionary improvement for some of the guys already on our roster.

Is Dalton Knecht the next great shooter?

[eyriq]

I like the Melo comp for Paolo.
10x all-star
2x All-NBA 2nd team
4x All-NBA 3rd team