Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[Butch718]

I need to see how Randle adjusts when playoff teams have time to game plan specifically against him.

I don't see this becoming an issue because he's turned into one hell of a playmaker. So even if he constantly see doubles, you know he's going to find the open man.

[NewKnicks]

I need to see how Randle adjusts when playoff teams have time to game plan specifically against him.

I don't see this becoming an issue because he's turned into one hell of a playmaker. So even if he constantly see doubles, you know he's going to find the open man.

How do you know it won't be an issue if it's never happened before? We'll both know soon, though.

[KnicksGod]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Ramona Shelbourne just mentioned on The Jump that Randle is eligible for a 4 year, 100 million dollar extension.

Do we offer it?

Does he take that?

I would definitely offer it but with caution. I don’t want to insult Randle when he actually is eligible for a higher pay rate Supermax contract.
In my opinion, he deserves the Supermax.

And he's going to get it, too. We will be locked into 'Randle is a superstar' and our #1 once he signs that deal. For better or worse, that's going to happen relatively soon.

I do not want to pay him the supermax just yet, but in his eyes (and his agents) I'm sure he thinks he's worth it. I've always been interested in seeing what we could get for him before signing him to that deal, but I can't see the Knicks trading their first All Star in forever. We're locked into a Knicks/Randle team up for years to come. We all need to pray he doesn't drop back down to where he was last year.

Don’t disagree but have to factor in that when you see what people are giving up for a for a Jrue Holiday, it seems like we could trade him if need be. He’ll be young and a guy who can add a lot of scoring punch no matter what (well most likely barring major injury or a mental problem).

[Butch718]

I need to see how Randle adjusts when playoff teams have time to game plan specifically against him.

I don't see this becoming an issue because he's turned into one hell of a playmaker. So even if he constantly see doubles, you know he's going to find the open man.

How do you know it won't be an issue if it's never happened before? We'll both know soon, though.

Because I’m optimistic.

[Synciere]

Pretty much everyone in this thread is saying 'pay the man' after less than a year of great play. I'm not disputing he's played great, but I need to see it in the playoffs, and all of next year before I had him the big bag. You need to be SO careful as a franchise when giving out these supermax bags. If you make the wrong move, you could be setting yourself up for failure for years to come, and no team is going to take an underperforming super max player off your hands. Destiny is already set after he signs that contract, good or bad.

I'm not trashing Randle, far from it. I'm as surprised and happy as anyone is with his play this year. But is he in the conversation with the top 10 players in the league? This year, yes. But it's only one year.

What happens if we get in the playoffs, teams game plan against Randle and he doesn't play well. We lose 4-1 (as an example). Is everyone still saying hand him that bag? The good thing is we're going to find out a lot more about him very soon in the playoffs. Exciting times to say the least.

This is a fair point, but I believe most of us saying to pay him are doing so under the caveat that we have him signed for next year. We’d essentially be extending him. Also, I believe if we extend him this year his max will be lower than if he’s a restricted free agent eligible for a supermax. If that’s true it’s smarter to sign him earlier, save a few bucks. It’s not like we don’t have a direction either; Thibs will be here for the foreseeable future so he can only grow in our system.

[Synciere]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Ramona Shelbourne just mentioned on The Jump that Randle is eligible for a 4 year, 100 million dollar extension.

Do we offer it?

Does he take that?

I would definitely offer it but with caution. I don’t want to insult Randle when he actually is eligible for a higher pay rate Supermax contract.
In my opinion, he deserves the Supermax.

And he's going to get it, too. We will be locked into 'Randle is a superstar' and our #1 once he signs that deal. For better or worse, that's going to happen relatively soon.

I do not want to pay him the supermax just yet, but in his eyes (and his agents) I'm sure he thinks he's worth it. I've always been interested in seeing what we could get for him before signing him to that deal, but I can't see the Knicks trading their first All Star in forever. We're locked into a Knicks/Randle team up for years to come. We all need to pray he doesn't drop back down to where he was last year.

Well still have cap space, extra Dallas picks, and the possibility of internal growth of our current youth. We’ve seen what one year can do for a guy in Randle. It’s entirely possible RJ or Obi or Mitch have similar surges in years to come.

[knicks94]

The Knicks are rebuilding the wrong way.They drafted a bust in RJ Barrett, signed a consolation prize in Julius Randle and hired a coach whose system doesn’t fit the modern NBA in Tom Thibodeau.

[Montmorencie]

Players like him will attract players like Luka, Zion and Lavine in the years to come. The guy is 26! 26! He's got at least 8 years of high level given the current medicine, food science and his work ethic. This is not a 3-4 contending years or bust. This is a long-term deal. We couldn't sign free agents because we got nobody. Now we have a legitimate all star, probably the 4th best player in the East all around(defense + offense).

The issue is teams with PF's as their #1 'stars' are few and far between. There just aren't any in this day and age. For Randle to be as successful as he's been he needs to have the ball in his hands. It's been working so far, but I do have questions if we'll be able to past the second round with a PF as our #1.

He hasn't won anything yet in his career, so it would be good for us to get into a 7 game series to see how his play is in the playoffs. Teams will focus a lot more on shutting him down. The playoffs are a whole different animal, where teams gameplan a lot more on specific players game after game. This is where the best players in the game shine. Doesn't matter if teams try to shut them down, they still perform at a high level.

I need to see how Randle adjusts when playoff teams have time to game plan specifically against him.

I got what you are saying but he can easily adjust and be number two or even number three option in the team if we bring some big fish in.

The guy is a monster defensively, he is a decent passer and he is shooting 80% from FT and 40% from 3. If he keeps those percentages, he can easily leave the responsibility and some of the forced iso and long 2 he is taking now because nobody else can and leave the other new stars do it instead of him. He is not like Giannis for that matter - if he is being asked to give the ball to someone else and make his wide open 3 or his free throws, he will fail at this point. Don't know if this is going to change. But I will trust Julius as number 2 or even number 3 option. He is just too versatile.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[2020]

I need to see how Randle adjusts when playoff teams have time to game plan specifically against him.

I don't see this becoming an issue because he's turned into one hell of a playmaker. So even if he constantly see doubles, you know he's going to find the open man.

How do you know it won't be an issue if it's never happened before? We'll both know soon, though.

How do you know he said "know"?

Don't you see he said "see"?

[louisorr]

The way Randle is playing now is unbelievable. He's arrived. The only next step he needs to take is basically out of his hands at this point. If/when the NBa/refs realize he's a superstar and start calling fouls in the way superstars are treated, he will be a finished product. what a steal for nyk.

[thebuzzardman]

i went from "iono about that deal" to "OMG we finally have locked in a true star!"

i hate to say it, but merry pills called this one. they didn't have the environment to materialize his development, but they had the right guy in mind for once.

That's key. And maybe it was luck that Dolan fired Mills out of "no KD/Kyrie pique, but it worked out that a FO came in, seemingly with a plan to maximize the talent and mindsets of Randle and RJ.

I wonder to what extent WWW/Calipari were doing some backchannel talking to Dolan, encouraging him to not only out Fizzle and eventually Miller, but also the ineffective half of management.

Because in Thibs and Kenny Payne, they brought in the exact kind of coaches Randle and RJ would respond to - and also Johnnie Bryant.

Again, the FO hasn't been perfect, and Obi was a giant whiff, but they've been very solid, but especially on the coaching staff assembling level, and I think the other parts of the FO too - with Zanin, Perrin, the rest of the scouting department etc - though that stuff needs to be judged over a longer period of time.

[thebuzzardman]

I'd like to add that in Randle and RJ, you have the two best players on the team FULLY bought into the coaches hard work AND the coaches commitment to defense.

So, as much credit as Thibs deserves, and he deserves a LOT, when the top players on the team buy in, all this stuff is MUCH easier sell to the other players.

Plus, I think the Knicks selected their roster based on considerations of playing fit and mental fit. Within the context of 1 year, low money deals, but still.

[thebuzzardman]

Pretty much everyone in this thread is saying 'pay the man' after less than a year of great play. I'm not disputing he's played great, but I need to see it in the playoffs, and all of next year before I had him the big bag. You need to be SO careful as a franchise when giving out these supermax bags. If you make the wrong move, you could be setting yourself up for failure for years to come, and no team is going to take an underperforming super max player off your hands. Destiny is already set after he signs that contract, good or bad.

I'm not trashing Randle, far from it. I'm as surprised and happy as anyone is with his play this year. But is he in the conversation with the top 10 players in the league? This year, yes. But it's only one year.

What happens if we get in the playoffs, teams game plan against Randle and he doesn't play well. We lose 4-1 (as an example). Is everyone still saying hand him that bag? The good thing is we're going to find out a lot more about him very soon in the playoffs. Exciting times to say the least.

This is a fair point, but I believe most of us saying to pay him are doing so under the caveat that we have him signed for next year. We’d essentially be extending him. Also, I believe if we extend him this year his max will be lower than if he’s a restricted free agent eligible for a supermax. If that’s true it’s smarter to sign him earlier, save a few bucks. It’s not like we don’t have a direction either; Thibs will be here for the foreseeable future so he can only grow in our system.

I think the Knicks pick up his team option, where it's not like he's getting totally ripped off at 19 million. They do it nicely, explaining they will pay Randle handsomely, but it has to wait a year, and that he's taking, in effect, a paycut this year by the team doing what they are allowed to do with the team option, but it's for the betterment of Randle and the team, because they will use that space to make the team better, with max flexibility to do so, and then when that is done, next year, Randle will get his max contract etc.

I really like what Randle has done, he deserves to be paid, but the smart move is to wait another year.

[Butch718]

Even if Randle doesn't play up to expectations in the playoffs, it would be foolish not to resign a guy entering his prime years. NBA all-star talents don't grow on trees and this team clearly has deficiencies despite them being red hot right now. We still don't have a legit starting PG(could be Quickly), and even though RJ has improved significantly, he's still hasn't proven to be a legit number 2 option yet. It's clear that this team is nowhere close to be a finished product. This team is an all-star wing and a PG away from being a contender in the east.

Also, I think this whole narrative about wait until we see what Randle does in the playoffs is kinda hilarious, considering that Randle has been fantastic with his playmaking this year. He's not only getting assists, but he seems to be zipping the ball to guys extremely quickly for open looks. Assuming his outside shooting isn't a fluke(which it seems like it isn't due to the volume he's shooting), this guy definitely should be part of your future going forward.

[Jeff Van Gully]

i went from "iono about that deal" to "OMG we finally have locked in a true star!"

i hate to say it, but merry pills called this one. they didn't have the environment to materialize his development, but they had the right guy in mind for once.

That's key. And maybe it was luck that Dolan fired Mills out of "no KD/Kyrie pique, but it worked out that a FO came in, seemingly with a plan to maximize the talent and mindsets of Randle and RJ.

I wonder to what extent WWW/Calipari were doing some backchannel talking to Dolan, encouraging him to not only out Fizzle and eventually Miller, but also the ineffective half of management.

Because in Thibs and Kenny Payne, they brought in the exact kind of coaches Randle and RJ would respond to - and also Johnnie Bryant.

Again, the FO hasn't been perfect, and Obi was a giant whiff, but they've been very solid, but especially on the coaching staff assembling level, and I think the other parts of the FO too - with Zanin, Perrin, the rest of the scouting department etc - though that stuff needs to be judged over a longer period of time.

i am not calling obi a whiff yet. he's not the best fit, but i am not ruling out him being the best player on the board at that point. we compare him to haliburton who is a better fit... but lots of basketball to be played.

i refuse to believe role and usage (and early injury) aren't huge factors in why the best player in college last year has looked so off.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Even if Randle doesn't play up to expectations in the playoffs, it would be foolish not to resign a guy entering his prime years. NBA all-star talents don't grow on trees and this team clearly has deficiencies despite them being red hot right now. We still don't have a legit starting PG(could be Quickly), and even though RJ has improved significantly, he's still hasn't proven to be a legit number 2 option yet. It's clear that this team is nowhere close to be a finished product. This team is an all-star wing and a PG away from being a contender in the east.

Also, I think this whole narrative about wait until we see what Randle does in the playoffs is kinda hilarious, considering that Randle has been fantastic with his playmaking this year. He's not only getting assists, but he seems to be zipping the ball to guys extremely quickly for open looks. Assuming his outside shooting isn't a fluke(which it seems like it isn't due to the volume he's shooting), this guy definitely should be part of your future going forward.

thankfully we have a whole additional season to evaluate and take advantage of what we already know.

[NewKnicks]

I would definitely offer it but with caution. I don’t want to insult Randle when he actually is eligible for a higher pay rate Supermax contract.
In my opinion, he deserves the Supermax.

And he's going to get it, too. We will be locked into 'Randle is a superstar' and our #1 once he signs that deal. For better or worse, that's going to happen relatively soon.

I do not want to pay him the supermax just yet, but in his eyes (and his agents) I'm sure he thinks he's worth it. I've always been interested in seeing what we could get for him before signing him to that deal, but I can't see the Knicks trading their first All Star in forever. We're locked into a Knicks/Randle team up for years to come. We all need to pray he doesn't drop back down to where he was last year.

Don’t disagree but have to factor in that when you see what people are giving up for a for a Jrue Holiday, it seems like we could trade him if need be. He’ll be young and a guy who can add a lot of scoring punch no matter what (well most likely barring major injury or a mental problem).

True, but if we pay him superstar and #1 money, he damn well better play like it, or we're screwed for years to come.

I want to see him play in the playoffs this year and next year before I'm handing him the superstar bag. We've put ourselves in such a good position moving forward with draft picks and assets, that I just hope we continue to be really smart and hand out contracts accordingly.

[NewKnicks]

I don't see this becoming an issue because he's turned into one hell of a playmaker. So even if he constantly see doubles, you know he's going to find the open man.

How do you know it won't be an issue if it's never happened before? We'll both know soon, though.

Because I’m optimistic.

That's a fair response. Don't get a lot of that around here, so appreciate the honesty.

[NewKnicks]

Players like him will attract players like Luka, Zion and Lavine in the years to come. The guy is 26! 26! He's got at least 8 years of high level given the current medicine, food science and his work ethic. This is not a 3-4 contending years or bust. This is a long-term deal. We couldn't sign free agents because we got nobody. Now we have a legitimate all star, probably the 4th best player in the East all around(defense + offense).

The issue is teams with PF's as their #1 'stars' are few and far between. There just aren't any in this day and age. For Randle to be as successful as he's been he needs to have the ball in his hands. It's been working so far, but I do have questions if we'll be able to past the second round with a PF as our #1.

He hasn't won anything yet in his career, so it would be good for us to get into a 7 game series to see how his play is in the playoffs. Teams will focus a lot more on shutting him down. The playoffs are a whole different animal, where teams gameplan a lot more on specific players game after game. This is where the best players in the game shine. Doesn't matter if teams try to shut them down, they still perform at a high level.

I need to see how Randle adjusts when playoff teams have time to game plan specifically against him.

I got what you are saying but he can easily adjust and be number two or even number three option in the team if we bring some big fish in.

The guy is a monster defensively, he is a decent passer and he is shooting 80% from FT and 40% from 3. If he keeps those percentages, he can easily leave the responsibility and some of the forced iso and long 2 he is taking now because nobody else can and leave the other new stars do it instead of him. He is not like Giannis for that matter - if he is being asked to give the ball to someone else and make his wide open 3 or his free throws, he will fail at this point. Don't know if this is going to change. But I will trust Julius as number 2 or even number 3 option. He is just too versatile.

If Randle is our #3, we are a top 10 team, or better. No doubt about that. Assuming he keeps this current play up.

Problem will be how do we get #1 and #2. This years draft would have been one way, but that ship has sailed. We'll need to score bigtime in FA. The other option is the trade option, but if we do that, we're giving up the farm and won't have picks anymore. That might be okay if Thibs keeps getting so much out of these rental vets we sign, so it's still possible it could work.

So many directions we can go in, which is a such a great thing. We haven't had a situation like this for a very long time, to where we've got everything going for us. Randle/RJ/IQ/Mitch, and all of our picks and more. And if the front office keeps making incredible moves signing these vets, we'll be good to go for years to come.