Rumor Alert...Andrew Bogut in the mix?

[C.lupus]

If money matters, MIN shouldn't have given Zach Randolph v2.0 a ton of it.

There is no reason for you to come trolling on our board with crap like that. It is uncalled for. Go home.

Nobody here is dissing Bogut. He is a good player. It's obvious that a trade doesn't make sense for either team because Bogut is playing well and is very popular in Milwaukee and we can get similar production (between Mayo and Diop) and fill 2 areas of need for the same price by signing Diop.

Everyone seems so testy the last couple days. There must be something in the water.

[TheProdigy]

If money matters, MIN shouldn't have given Zach Randolph v2.0 a ton of it.

Wow, you know nothing about basketball. It is widely known that Al Jefferson is a menace in the paint and has arguably the best post moves in the league(Although I still think that nod goes to Duncan). You're telling me that a 23 year old that gets 20-10 numbers on better than 50% shooting doesn't deserve his contract? He's not even getting paid a max contract?

You're a fool.

[karch34]

What about #3, Walker, and Jaric for Bogut, #8, and Simmons?

Ugh, I really dislike Simmons and his contract. One good season in LA and then he's been bad.

[shrink]

(but doesn't the ability of the player to produce wins at the present time also matter?)

What is it with you guys? Saying "money matters" does not say that "talent doesn't."

In fact, the LeBron example shows that quite clearly!

[Ayt]

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Wow, you know nothing about basketball. It is widely known that Al Jefferson is a menace in the paint and has arguably the best post moves in the league(Although I still think that nod goes to Duncan). You're telling me that a 23 year old that gets 20-10 numbers on better than 50% shooting doesn't deserve his contract? He's not even getting paid a max contract?

You're a fool.

Jefferson is definitely a monster. He'd be even better with better teammates around him because he was ignored far too often in most of the games I saw of Minny last year.

This thread should probably just die. At this point, all that is happening is people getting angry with each other about a trade that almost all of us can agree doesn't make sense for either side.

[SSUBluesman]

Bogut is worth the #3 pick, however it's not worth it for the Wolves. He's a much better player when he's a focal point on offense and getting consistent touches. There is still (due to MIL's craptastic coaching and guards) some upside left as he is just now getting to that role on the team.

Not doing this deal for money reasons is beyond stupid. First of all, it's not even determined that players would be willing to play here. Secondly, cap space is a one year window that means you throw a ton of money at whomever is available, always with the result of overpaying them and usually with the result of regretting the deal a few seasons later. There are MANY more examples of overpaid FA players than there are that earn their paycheck. In fact, those that do are usually available as a result of extenuating circumstances (Cuban foolishly paying for Dampier, Boozer getting the opt out and bolting, etc.). For every Arenas you have multiple Dampiers, Hughes, Wallaces, etc.

If you're going to get a high-buck impact player, your chances are better doing it with an expiring deal than with cap space. Who would you rather have, KG or Rashard? Gasol or Rashard? It's a good thing that the ownership is more interested in money than improving the team and was willing to let Spree and Theo go for nothing.

[paul]

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First, you are aware that Bogut is not LeBron right?

Second, your extremist conclusion is that you jumped to "No team should EVER keep a good player past their rookie contract." Where do you get "ever?"

Dude how about you don't edit my post when quoting it then ask the exact question I answered with the very next line to try to sound clever? FYI the very next line of my post said -

'Not comparing Bogut to Lebron of course, but saying that Bogut is not worth the #3 pick when he is quite possibly a better and more important player now than that pick will ever be is absolutely obsurd.'

Um, let's see, do I understand Bogut is not Lebron? Ummm, ummmm......

You are shocked that I didn't understand and had to spell it out for me? Could you possibly be more condescending? I understood your premise perfectly, but it was, and is, incorrect in my opinion. I didn't need a 'now talk to me like I'm a 5 year old' reply to understand it, I simply think that it's straight up wrong, and my view had nothing to do with who was involved. Now I'll let the good folks of Minny get on with their business, clearly my presence here was appreciated......

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Hows it obsurd?

If you could re-do that draft, would you still choose Bogut 1st? I see 2 superstar pg's chosen after Bogut that Id take in a heartbeat over the Aussie.

I think Bucks fans are extremely overrating Bogut. Especially when their team hasnt been anything with him, but he's just worsening their lotto draft position.

[paul]

Hows it obsurd?

If you could re-do that draft, would you still choose Bogut 1st? I see 2 superstar pg's chosen after Bogut that Id take in a heartbeat over the Aussie.

I think Bucks fans are extremely overrating Bogut. Especially when their team hasnt been anything with him, but he's just worsening their lotto draft position.

Clearly if that draft was done again right now you'd take CP and Deron over Bogut, you won't get any arguments from anyone on the Bucks board about that. But that had absolutely nothing to do with the argument raised here, that Bogut was not worth the #3 in this years draft purely based on the fact that he's due to be renewed next year.

[TheProdigy]

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Jefferson is definitely a monster. He'd be even better with better teammates around him because he was ignored far too often in most of the games I saw of Minny last year.

This thread should probably just die. At this point, all that is happening is people getting angry with each other about a trade that almost all of us can agree doesn't make sense for either side.

I agree completely with you. There are too many people on these boards that are paranoid about their team's assets. Lets just agree that we're 2 small market teams facing an up hill battle. Free agents generally don't want to sign with either Milwaukee or Minnesota, so both franchises share the need for a little luck.

[shrink]

Un-freakin' believable.

Yes - I'm being condescending to you, because you made such a stupid stupid statement. And worse, you couldn't even understand why YOUR statement was so completely foolish.

And you're going to fall back on "you edited my post?"

Here's your entire post:

That is an absolutely ridiculous argument. So by that reasoning no team should EVER keep a good player past their rookie contract? Teams should all trade lottery picks after their 3rd season no matter how good they are? The Cavs should have traded Lebron for a lottery pick rather than extend him? Not comparing Bogut to Lebron of course, but saying that Bogut is not worth the #3 pick when he is quite possibly a better and more important player now than that pick will ever be is absolutely obsurd.

Here's an idea, let's trade Bogut for the #3, develop him for 3 years, then trade him for a #5, develop him for 3 years, then trade him for a #7.......

YOU made the statement that " So by that reasoning no team should EVER keep a good player past their rookie contract? "

YOU brought up LeBron yourself!

YOU made no exception for EVER ("except for LeBron") in your tirade.

1. Do you understand what "EVER" means, when you write "no team should EVER keep a good player past his rookie contract?"

2. Do you understand that I did not even say "no team should EVER" and that was your own weird leap?

3. Do you understand I talked specificly about the #3 pick and Bogut, and it was YOU who made the "No team should EVER" leap?

You interpreted a whole rule for future behavior from a single event, which is silly to begin with. Worse, you locked it in to be ironclad, that "no team should ever." Then you use LeBron as an example?!? Like Bogut would naturally be treated like LeBron in any rule you invented?!? Then you say you're not comparing them, when comparisons would be irrelevant for your ironclad rule anyway. It's just insane.

Now you're going to whine that I treated you condescendingly because you were trying to argue with something I never said or even implied? You still don't understand my premise when you make a crazy inference that would take a complete lack of logic to arrive at, and you are surprised that you are not treated like a great basketball mind?

[paul]

Your original statement was

-----------

Bogut is NOT worth the #3 pick, because Bogut costs $20 freakin' million dollars more over the next four years!

As much as the MIL posters ignore it, MONEY MATTERS.

------------

So, by reading that statement I summise that your view is that Bogut is not worth the #3 pick in this draft, regardless of the talent of whoever is picked at #3 compared with Bogut, purely because Bogut is due to be extended next year. Correct? I've read exactly what you wrote to arrive at that statement and haven't made any great erronous leaps? You gave absolutely no other reason why Bogut would not be worth this pick, simply that 'money matters'.

By relation is it then such a wildly crazy leap for me to decipher that you imply that no lottery pick should ever be renewed after a rookie deal but should instead by traded for another lottery pick before renewal, as 'money matters'?

If that original statement in isolation doesn't imply that lottery picks should be traded before renewal for another lottery pick regardless of talent then I'm not here.

I realise that you probably have other reasons for thinking this, but if you don't see that your original statement in isolation is pretty ridiculous then you need to try to read it without including what you were thinking when you wrote it. My original response about 'trading for the 3 then developing them for 3 years then trading them for the 5' and so on was obviously an equally ridiculous 'turn of events' retort, likewise the 'Lebron should be traded for a lottery pick' statement. I would have hoped the sarcasm was obvious, but I should know not to take anything for granted.

[MVP4LIFE]

Luckily nothing has changed here over the past few months

I would deal the #3, Walker and Jaric for Bogut and Simmons if Mayo isn't there. Or is that wishful thinking?

[AQuintus]

Luckily nothing has changed here over the past few months

I would deal the #3, Walker and Jaric for Bogut and Simmons if Mayo isn't there. Or is that wishful thinking?

If Mayo isn't there, one of either Rose or Beasley is.

Both of them are worth waaaay too much to even think about trading for Bogut.

[Worm Guts]

Bogut is worth the #3 pick, however it's not worth it for the Wolves. He's a much better player when he's a focal point on offense and getting consistent touches. There is still (due to MIL's craptastic coaching and guards) some upside left as he is just now getting to that role on the team.

Not doing this deal for money reasons is beyond stupid. First of all, it's not even determined that players would be willing to play here. Secondly, cap space is a one year window that means you throw a ton of money at whomever is available, always with the result of overpaying them and usually with the result of regretting the deal a few seasons later. There are MANY more examples of overpaid FA players than there are that earn their paycheck. In fact, those that do are usually available as a result of extenuating circumstances (Cuban foolishly paying for Dampier, Boozer getting the opt out and bolting, etc.). For every Arenas you have multiple Dampiers, Hughes, Wallaces, etc.

If you're going to get a high-buck impact player, your chances are better doing it with an expiring deal than with cap space. Who would you rather have, KG or Rashard? Gasol or Rashard? It's a good thing that the ownership is more interested in money than improving the team and was willing to let Spree and Theo go for nothing.

I completely disagree. Bogut is 1 quality player, the third pick and cap space is the possibility for 2. Beyond that, you can trade cap space easier than you can trade expiring contracts.

[MVP4LIFE]

-= original quote snipped =-



If Mayo isn't there, one of either Rose or Beasley is.

Both of them are worth waaaay too much to even think about trading for Bogut.

Come to think of it, I think I have to change my opinion in this one. I think Bogut is a good player, but getting either one of the three you mentioned, probably is too good to give up.

[DutchManDanFan]

Still discussing this? Bogut for #3 is not going to happen. Bucks new GM doesn't think he can build through the draft. He wants proven players. Bogut is one and getting better. #3 might become the better player with a better deal, but you will have to wait for that a coupple of years to know for certain.

[MVP4LIFE]

True. But there are some players in this draft that could turn out to be quality contributors right away. In the end I think it's save to say that fans from both teams don't want this to happen.

[NotYoAvgNBAFan]

So this guy is a reliable source?

The Miami thing hoping Wolves try to move up is interesting, but as he said, sounds unlikely.

Get Mayo out of here! Sit down! Gordon is twice the player he is!

Go back and laundering more money....

[shrink]

Your original statement was

-----------

Bogut is NOT worth the #3 pick, because Bogut costs $20 freakin' million dollars more over the next four years!

As much as the MIL posters ignore it, MONEY MATTERS.

------------

So, by reading that statement I summise that your view is that Bogut is not worth the #3 pick in this draft, regardless of the talent of whoever is picked at #3 compared with Bogut, purely because Bogut is due to be extended next year. Correct?.

No. The first part is what I said, the bolded part is all your craziness. "

Bogut has a talent level with some expected production. The #3 pick in the 2008 has a talent level of expected production. These can be compared. Going to "REGARDLESS OF TALENT" and "EVER" is your illogical leap.

I can't believe you still honestly believe what you're posting. I think you're just doing this now because your feelings are hurt.