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Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8?

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Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#1 » by EastSideBucksFan » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:16 pm

I want someone to come here and convince me why he shouldn't be on our short list of prospects to draft at 8.

He's a player that has NBA size, length, athleticism and shooting. He's a guy who is projected to be able to come in and contribute right away. He's a player who fits a need for us. Small forward or even two guard. So why is he continuing to be dogged in mock drafts? Injury history, lack of eye popping stats?

Everything says to me this kid could jump 7 or 8 spots on draft night and I don't think we would be called fools if we drafted him.


Here's recent reports from the multi-player workout

The Suns don't have any more draft workouts scheduled yet, but Phoenix is not done evaluating with 10 more days available for workouts and callbacks before the NBA draft.

Fast-rising UCLA point guard Russell Westbrook canceled a visit today, but the Suns just might need some time to take in what they saw this weekend, when they attended a 24-player, multiteam workout in Oakland.

Kansas swingman Brandon Rush entered as clearly the best prospect in the weekend's group, which featured players who could go anywhere from the middle of the first round to the second round. Rush enhanced that standing, showing off his shooting and defense that comes with a long 6-foot-6 frame.


Rush played in a group that had him competing with swingmen Gary Forbes of Massachusetts, Courtney Lee of Western Kentucky and Bill Walker of Kansas State.


Of those who worked out in Oakland, Rush headlined a quartet of possible picks for Phoenix to consider at No. 15 along with Rider power forward Jason Thompson, Florida power forward Marreese Speights and French swingman Nicolas Batum.

Speights, a fluid 6-10 big man who can face up and shoot; and Batum, a skilled 19-year-old who may need more French pro-league seasoning, already had worked out for the Suns in Phoenix.

Thompson is a late bloomer who grew 4 inches in college. He became an intriguing open-court player with skills but has not been tested by top competition.

If the Suns get a chance to work out Kansas' Darrell Arthur, that would make for an impressive list of June big-man evaluations after having seen Speights, Thompson, Nevada's JaVale McGee, Stanford's Robin Lopez and North Carolina's J.J. Hickson.

Thompson solidified his standing with his showing in Oakland, while three shooting guards - Arkansas' Sonny Weems, Washington State's Kyle Weaver and New Mexico's J.R. Giddens - all helped themselves there.

Memphis' Joey Dorsey was the most productive in a group including Speights and versatile wings. Dorsey's particulars were unique - 6-7, 273 pounds, 8.6 percent body fat and a wingspan of 7-1 3/8.

The Suns also will spend this week on assembling the rest of the coaching staff with new coach Terry Porter.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#2 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:30 pm

I thought we had a whole thread on Rush, maybe more than one, but maybe it got lost in the conversion.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#3 » by EastSideBucksFan » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:34 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:I thought we had a whole thread on Rush, maybe more than one, but maybe it got lost in the conversion.




I don't remember seeing one, I could be wrong though.


I think this kid is the dark horse to shoot up the board on draft day and I think there needs to be serious consideration to have him in the mix. Not sure if we've worked him out or not.

Maybe Hammond is throwing some people off with all the Joe Alexander/Anthony Randolph talk.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#4 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:56 pm

It's such a game of deception right now. Bringing guys in you have no intention of drafting just to make people think you're interested. Smokescreens left and right. I am expecting that a day or two before the draft Enlund will write a comprehensive article on who we are taking and why.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#5 » by carmelbrownqueen » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:57 pm

I like Rush' game a lot. However, I think he is a guy that we can trade down to obtain.. taking him at 8 is too high for him.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#6 » by Debit One » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:00 pm

When I look at Brandon Rush I see Mo Peterson. Nice player. Valuable to have on your team. Not a game changer.

Further, I am disturbed by the fact that, at least statistically, Rush showed no meaningful improvement in his game while at Kansas.

SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2005-2006 31.7 13.5 5.9 2.0 2.5 .78 .9 .7 1.2 .474 .761 .472 1.24
2006-2007 32.5 13.8 5.6 2.0 2.1 .97 .4 .9 1.6 .443 .681 .431 1.25
2007-2008 29.7 13.3 5.1 2.1 1.8 1.17 .8 .8 1.6 .435 .779 .419 1.22

Lastly, I'm probably prejudiced against him because of his brothers' relative lack of NBA success.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#7 » by europa » Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:54 pm

I've been advocating taking Rush at 8. I like him better - and in some cases a lot better - than the players expected to be on the board there. I think his game is ideal for the pros and I expect him to be a better pro than college player. I've likened him to Eddie Jones - a player who will score 15-20 points a game while being able to defend the opposing teams top wing player. Jones was never a "star," but he was a rock-solid two-way player who rarely hurt his team.

I think the concern bout Rush is he doesn't have "star" potential. But I think his quality talent and two-way skills are being significantly ignored in the process. I think we're going to see plenty of GMs chase "potential" and pass on Rush and end up making a mistake in the process. I hope the Bucks aren't one of those teams.

I'd love to see the Bucks trade down to get Rush but I'd have zero problems taking him at 8. In fact, he remains my top choice if the Bucks stand pat.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#8 » by EastSideBucksFan » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:04 pm

carmelbrownqueen wrote:I like Rush' game a lot. However, I think he is a guy that we can trade down to obtain.. taking him at 8 is too high for him.



This is probably a bad example, but I remember no one had CV in the Top Ten when he was drafted at 7 by the Raptors. When he was drafted Stephen A was wreaking havoc calling for Babcocks head for taking at 7.

I'm just trying to say, if there is a player you want, trading down might be stupid cause there are no guarantees he's still be there. Ideally you want to trade down and get an additional asset, but if you like a player and you want him, sometimes you just grab him and not worry about what people are going to say for you, "reaching"
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#9 » by msiris » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:07 pm

Because he really does not have the ceiling like the other guys do. Look at his years at Kansas. Just a steady player who put up steady numbers. Sure almost all the guys who work out look good. The lottery is about finding that star player more than anything. :D
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#10 » by Debit One » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:14 pm

europa wrote:I'd love to see the Bucks trade down to get Rush but I'd have zero problems taking him at 8. In fact, he remains my top choice if the Bucks stand pat.


I've never sided with those on this site who believe that you are the most ill informed poster on the Internet ... until now.

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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#11 » by europa » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:20 pm

Debit One wrote:
europa wrote:I'd love to see the Bucks trade down to get Rush but I'd have zero problems taking him at 8. In fact, he remains my top choice if the Bucks stand pat.


I've never sided with those on this site who believe that you are the most ill informed poster on the Internet ... until now.

:D


That was harsh. :) For me, it comes down to whether a guy can play. I think Rush can play. I think too often in the NBA draft, GMs make the mistake of chasing "potential" over guys who can just play the game. There's probably nothing exciting about taking Brandon Rush at 8. You can't say he has star potential. But then again, I don't believe anyone expected to be on the board at 8 has that type of potential. I just don't see it. So if that's the case, I think the belief that Rush has a lower ceiling is being used against him and it's lowering his value which I believe will turn out to be a mistake - except for the team which smartly grabs him in the middle of the first round. Then we'll spend the next 5-10 years wondering how in the hell Brandon Rush fell in this year's draft.

I'm just not sold on a single guy expected to be on the board at 8. At best, there are some guys I'd be OK with (like Westbrook, for example). I am a big Brandon Rush fan. I think he's a player. So if the choice would be to take a guy I'm only OK with over someone I really like a lot, I'm taking the latter - even if it doesn't conform with the majority point of view.

In a perfect world like I said, I'd prefer to see the Bucks trade down to get Rush because I do think he'll be available in the 12-15 range and maybe in the 12-20 range. But if that option didn't materialize, I would have zero problems taking the guy I really like at 8 - even if nobody else thought he should go that high. At the end of the day, I don't care who others think should be the pick. I only care about who I think should be the pick. I hope Hammond has that same mindset.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#12 » by europa » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:57 pm

This is from Chad Ford today. The comment from the GM about Rush and Gordon sounds awfully familiar. :D

Brandon Rush, F, Kansas
Rush has drawn rave reviews wherever he's gone. His combination of athleticism, shooting ability and defensive prowess have teams in the lottery considering him above more heralded prospects.

His name was mentioned by NBA scouts and executives at the Golden State workout more than any other name. One GM said, "If he and Eric Gordon were both on the board, I'd have a hard time passing on Rush. He shoots the ball just as well, is bigger and he just knows how to play."

We've had Rush pegged as the No. 15 pick in the draft since our second mock draft, but he might be moving up a few spots given the feedback he's gotten from other teams late in the lottery. It's no longer out of the question that a team such as the Blazers at No. 13, or even the Pacers at No. 11, could take him.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#13 » by El Duderino » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:30 pm

When i watched Rush play, his build, size/length, and how he played reminded me so much of Scottie Pippen.

I'm by no means predicting that Rush will be anywhere near as good as a HOF guy like Pippen was, but i can see Rush being a poor mans Pippen in the NBA. A guy who can guard either wing player and in some cases, guard a bigger PG if needed, great in transition both offensively and defensively, and a guy who can hit open shots.

I probably wouldn't take him at 8, but i wouldn't be all pissed if the Bucks did because i do think if he slips to far, quite a few teams will wonder why they passed on him.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#14 » by midranger » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:14 pm

Rush @ 8 would be fine with me.

I really, really, really like him.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#15 » by L&H_05 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:15 pm

CDR (who I want) will be twice the player of a Brandon Rush... First off, none of these Rush brothers are aggressive players... Jaron, Kareem and Brandon are all alike in their demeanor...

B-Rush has no left hand, has poor handles altogether, has no post up skills, and IMO, is on a fast track to becoming a Jarvis Hayes type of player...

He's going to be a guy looking to score alot more from behind the line, than at the FT line...

CDR is the real gem that is going to slip... :nod:

Courtney Lee is the sleeper though...
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#16 » by msiris » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:03 am

I agree with you L&H
Rush was just a steady guy who put up ok numbers at Kansas. Screams role player to me. Not much upside. Why would you take a guy Rush who will not be a star and pass up on a guy who could be a star like a Randolph with a huge upside. Rush is a safe pick, but not at number 8. I agree with you about CDR. He has more upside than Rush. Rush will not lead us to win 50 games. Randolph might not either, but can you afford the chance of passing on a freak of nature like Randolph? What do most stars have in common? They are freaks of nature. They can either out jump or out run, or muscle everyone else.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#17 » by europa » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:08 am

I want the guy who can play. Rush can defend both wing positions and he's a good scorer. He's also athletic - so he addresses two clear areas of need and brings ability in a third area (scoring) which will be necessary should the Bucks trade Mo and/or Villanueva or maybe Redd. Although I think his best long-term position will be SG, I think his defensive skills will enable him to play SF so he addresses another area of need on this team. So he not only brings talent but he also helps the team in critical areas where they need help.

I've believed he's the best option at 8 for several weeks now. And now his stock is on the rise. I'll be very interested to hear the reports of his workout with the Bucks.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#18 » by pilprin » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:09 am

Europa, I just don't want another 6'6" SF. If he is a #2 then I'm a little more open to him. CDR is a 6'7" #2.

So...Give me CDR over Rush as well.

If we can deal Mo for a mid first rounder or CV for one, I'd be happy with either CDR or Rush, but I prefer CDR.

If we could come away with Alexander or Randolph and CDR or Rush in the draft and lose only Mo or CV. I think that would be positive.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#19 » by europa » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:18 am

He has good size, good athletic ability and the ability to defend both SGs and SFs. As I said, I think his long-term position in the NBA is SG but I believe his defensive skills will enable him to play SF as well. I would draft him as Redd's eventual replacement but play him alongside Redd at SF should Redd remain on the roster next season.
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Re: Why aren't we talking about Rush at 8? 

Post#20 » by bango_the_buck » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:02 am

pilprin wrote:Europa, I just don't want another 6'6" SF. If he is a #2 then I'm a little more open to him. CDR is a 6'7" #2.


When I watched the NCAA championship game, Rush looked both taller and longer than CDR. I couldn't find their measurements, but I'm fairly certain that this is indeed the case. Give me Rush - but not at 8. I'm pushing for a CV for a late lotto pick trade (GS at #14 or Sacto at #12) so we can get both Rush and Alexander/Randolph.
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