Some Things you Should Know About Scott Skiles....

[fam3381]

Thanks to bullzman and everyone else who posted background.

[worthlessBucks]

Thanks to bullzman and everyone else who posted background.

Agreed, great information, thanks for centralizing it for us.

[bullzman23]

No problem guys. Hopefully you will find these quotes useful when analyzing Skiles' relationships with your own players. He seemed to have grown quite a bit from his experience in PHX and hopefully will do the same from his stint in Chicago. I will be closely following and rooting for your team next season as I am curious to see how Skiles will workout. If he can truly learn from his past mistakes then he will become a top three coach.

Best of luck.

[MajorDad]

I have to believe a lot of players on the bucks current roster will hate Skiles. and they will either be benched or traded just like crawford and curry. i fully believe the Knicks biggest problem is Crawford despite his nice fantasy stats.

and Skiles in 2-3 years will quit because his new cast of players will tune him out. but in the time Skiles is coach, the bucks will win an average of 50 games.

I also believe the announcement of the hiring is a good one. it will give the current players a chance to beitch and complain about Skiles, and Hammonds a chance to unload anybody who doesn't want to play for skiles by the draft night.

perhaps hienrich will want to become a buck. he seems like a Skiles type of guy. i noticed all the guys who complained about Skiles with the exception of Chandler and kidd were lazy slackers.

I think the biggest complaint about Skiles from his players is that he doesn't talk very much and he desn't stroke their egos either.

What was Curry expecting from a coach? Before joining the NBA, his coach was a high school coach who probably bowed down to everything Curry said and wanted. The same with Chandler. I think, while players may be talented enough to enter the NBA out of high school, they lose a lot because they have usually only played for one high school coach. And my vision of high school coaches is that they allow superstar high school athletes do anything they please while playing to showcase their talents. I think the high school players who went straight to the NBA would have been better served to play at a college - not to improve their basketball skills, but rather to learn to respect authority (coachs) and to learn what their role in society is and what society expects of them. They also would learn the concept that the word me is a very big part of the word team. once you take me away from team, you no longer have a team.

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliff Levingston will chime in about Skiles. Basically, he's a temporary solution to help get a team get out of the dumps and back to respectability. But after a while, his lack of offensive flexibility and abrasive personality eventually becomes a net negative.

Pros
- Demands accountability and will bench and/or ostracize a guy in the media if he's not giving 100% effort.
- Great defensive system up until this year. Not sure what happened this year, but before we would often front the post and bring help from the weak side. The system requires great defensive rotations, but if you get those, the defense is very effective.
- Can teach defense as evidenced by Eddy Curry being a much better defender here than he's ever been in NY.
- Great out of bounds plays that usually get a basket.
- His offensive system is "plug and play" in that he should be able to get it implemented quickly and have some degree of success.

Cons
- Lack of communication with players sometimes as has been widely covered so far.
- Offensive in-flexibility. Basically, the offense will be one of 3 things: high pick and roll, down screens for the 2 or 3 to get an open 18 foot jump shot or iso on the block. If none of them are working at all, you're f'ed offensively.
- Due to the "plug and play" nature of the offense, it also doesn't really give any guys the ability to expand their game. Yi could be great in the pick and pop system it'll utilize, but it'll also never put him on the block or never require him to make a back cut, etc. Therefore, guys' games get very limited overall.
- Along with he above point, he seems to value less mistakes much more than he does making a play. Thus, you'll sometimes get a lot of tentative players passing the ball around the perimeter instead of looking to make a play.
- Lack of adjustments in-game. He's even said publicly that adjustments are overrated and he doesn't really make adjustments. His answer for everything is to go small to try to improve ball movement and spacing.

ICLO, you'll be pleased with him for a couple years until you start seeing how his tendencies and systems affect the players and team for the long-term. Good luck.

[jerrod]

- Along with he above point, he seems to value less mistakes much more than he does making a play. Thus, you'll sometimes get a lot of tentative players passing the ball around the perimeter instead of looking to make a play.

that worries me

[mbucks22]

So we have now hired a coach that actually has shown something in the league, preaches DEFENSE to the absolute fullest and will bench a player regardless of who they are, if they aren't giving 100% effort.

Yet some people are still complaining about the hiring. Well you don't like the hiring, hit the road and find a new team. We needed a guy like Skiles, no more matador defense on this team.

We had hired JVG it would've been "dude couldn't even get McGrady/Yao out of the first round" or some other lame excuse to whine.

Some people just love to argue for the sake of arguing.

[Ayt]

Cliff Levingston will chime in about Skiles. Basically, he's a temporary solution to help get a team get out of the dumps and back to respectability. But after a while, his lack of offensive flexibility and abrasive personality eventually becomes a net negative.

Pros
- Demands accountability and will bench and/or ostracize a guy in the media if he's not giving 100% effort.
- Great defensive system up until this year. Not sure what happened this year, but before we would often front the post and bring help from the weak side. The system requires great defensive rotations, but if you get those, the defense is very effective.
- Can teach defense as evidenced by Eddy Curry being a much better defender here than he's ever been in NY.
- Great out of bounds plays that usually get a basket.
- His offensive system is "plug and play" in that he should be able to get it implemented quickly and have some degree of success.

Cons
- Lack of communication with players sometimes as has been widely covered so far.
- Offensive in-flexibility. Basically, the offense will be one of 3 things: high pick and roll, down screens for the 2 or 3 to get an open 18 foot jump shot or iso on the block. If none of them are working at all, you're f'ed offensively.
- Due to the "plug and play" nature of the offense, it also doesn't really give any guys the ability to expand their game. Yi could be great in the pick and pop system it'll utilize, but it'll also never put him on the block or never require him to make a back cut, etc. Therefore, guys' games get very limited overall.
- Along with he above point, he seems to value less mistakes much more than he does making a play. Thus, you'll sometimes get a lot of tentative players passing the ball around the perimeter instead of looking to make a play.
- Lack of adjustments in-game. He's even said publicly that adjustments are overrated and he doesn't really make adjustments. His answer for everything is to go small to try to improve ball movement and spacing.

ICLO, you'll be pleased with him for a couple years until you start seeing how his tendencies and systems affect the players and team for the long-term. Good luck.

This pretty much echoes the thoughts I put down in the Carlisle thread about Skiles. Spot on, Cliff.

[Cliff Levingston]

that worries me

It's infuriating sometimes, and ICLO, the reason why Chris Duhon got as much playing time as he did. Duhon would often pass up wide open shots cause, well, he can't shoot. He'd dribble around for a little longer than pass the ball to someone else in non-scoring position with 4 seconds left on the shot clock. It would lead to guys like Gordon taking bad shots to beat the shot clock, yet Skiles thinks that Duhon is rock solid offensively. He has low turnovers compared to assists but those assists are pretty much all passing to the wing where a jumper is made... nothing special to create a scoring opportunity.

In Duhon's defense though, he plays great defense and is pretty much always where he needs to be defensively which is another reason Skiles loved him.

So we have now hired a coach that actually has shown something in the league, preaches DEFENSE to the absolute fullest and will bench a player regardless of who they are, if they aren't giving 100% effort.

Not necessarily, at least not this year. Ben Wallace was downright horrific and was outplayed by Noah about 95% of the time this year yet played less than 30 minutes per game on rare occasions. Last year in the second half of the season, Tyrus thoroughly outplayed P.J. Brown yet saw less minutes as well.

Skiles no doubt favors the highly paid veterans over the young guys and it has a lot to do with the above point. Then again, all the highly paid and/or vets we've have since Skiles has been here were basically bigs known for their defense, so this may not apply to a defensive sieve like Redd.

[Epicurus]

So we have now hired a coach that actually has shown something in the league, preaches DEFENSE to the absolute fullest and will bench a player regardless of who they are, if they aren't giving 100% effort.

Yet some people are still complaining about the hiring. Well you don't like the hiring, hit the road and find a new team. We needed a guy like Skiles, no more matador defense on this team.

We had hired JVG it would've been "dude couldn't even get McGrady/Yao out of the first round" or some other lame excuse to whine.

Some people just love to argue for the sake of arguing.

Irony throws a strike again.

[Licensed to Il]

the cut and paste post at the start of this thread is an all time classic. i am thankful the guy put the time in to provide that for us, but we are supposed to be concerned with skiles because:

- he was a coach that didn't get along with jason kidd (have any?)
- he made a gut decision that he didn't want tim thomas around?
- he was frustrated and blunt about eddy curry's conditioning and lack of effort?
- he made a sarcastic comment about jaokim noah's obnoxiousness?
- he felt that witholding playing time from ben gordon would pressure him to work on the difficient areas of his game?
- he thought that every player, even ben wallace, should follow the rules that the TEAM had come up with and agreed to...

jeez... those aren't red flags. they are the general consensus of 95% of NBA fans.

Scott Skiles does have a general lack of charisma and lack of a sense of humor. And I am fully aware that he will probably not still be coaching here at the conclusion of his four year contract (giving him something in common with the last several Bucks coaches). But one, he is exactly what this franchise needed (for now). And two, I think a lot of the issues on the first page of this thread are kind of much ado about nothing. For the most part, they show that Skiles is a sensible (albeit stubborn guy) in a sea of insanity (most of the NBA's "coddle culture").

[Nowak008]

Thanks for info cliff. Very interesting, and concerning.

[Cliff Levingston]

Thanks for info cliff. Very interesting, and concerning.

No problem.

Cliff Levingston will add that he's really not sure how much credit Skiles deserves. Not to slight him, but the Bulls also made their turnaround in '04-'05 after adding Deng, Gordon, Nocioni and Duhon all in one offseason while dumping inefficient chucker Jamal Crawford and career headache Eddie Robinson. Not that Skiles gets no credit for getting those guys to play well, but all four of those guys either had Final 4 college championship experience (Deng, Gordon and Duhon) or olympic experience (Andres Nocioni). Coupled with Hinrich and Antonio Davis (two good defenders and high character guys), the argument could be made that Skiles was handed the turnaround more-so than he should be credited for it. There's absolutely no way to quantify that though so it'd all be speculation.

But as said, it'll probably take a couple years or more for you to see these negative effects. Skiles' approach could be likened to a strict boss who's almost always looking over your shoulder. Sure you'll get stuff done just cause you don't want to lose your job, but eventually it'll wear on you until you can't take anymore... which is pretty clearly what happened to us this year.

[xTitan]

Hmmmmm well Cliff, Casey Johnson, who covers the Bulls for the Trib and Tom Doerr have been on local radio today and don't quite agree with your observations....but thats cool always good to have info from very different sources and your input is appreciated.

[Leslie Forman]

Your defense will be terrific. Your offense will be horrendous. Skiles's offense is perhaps the crudest and most rudimentary in the entire NBA, no matter who the other 29 coaches are. He will do things like run pick-n-rolls with Gadzuric and Ruffin, and the first 150 games of it failing miserably will not stop him from thinking that it's money.

Also, do not, I repeat do NOT let him have complete control over his assistant coaching staff. He will hire a few yes men with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Here in Chicago, we've all been clamoring for a big man coach forever and thought it was pretty (Please Use More Appropriate Word) that Paxson seemed oblivious to the idea, but it turns out Paxson had always wanted one but Skiles did not. Almost immediately after Skiles left, Paxson finally got a big man coach.

And prepare to see Jim Boylan's ugly mug on the bench every game.

[MickeyDavis]

Boylan is a Marquette guy, he can sit on Buzz Williams bench.

[bigballajohn]

i do not agree with the signing, but skiles is better than LK and stotts. i wish we woulda made more of a run at carlisle.

[kebzach]

I view Skiles as LK with a resume.

I would not be a fan of this hire at all. Bring in a guy who has had real success. Carlise or bust.

Rick C hasn't exactly won a lot of championships in his day. Or any. Same amount as Skiles has.

[Three34]

Skiles is only a short term solution. But he's a good one. He has his flaws, but so does every NBA coach. And unlike most NBA coaches, he has actual definable strengths.

He also has a big shiny forehead and a sense of humour. You'll like him immediately.

[Three34]

that worries me

Yeah, but imagine how happy Royal Ivey is now. Charlie Bell's less happy because he's about to spend half of his life at small forward, but still.

Scott Skiles does have a general lack of charisma and lack of a sense of humor.

Apparently you don't know Scott Skiles.