Charlie V's last five games

[coolhandluke121]

Screw Yi, I've preferred CV all along. I got reamed when I suggested keeping CV, who until he got the shaft from LK always expressed a desire to be here and even went to Yi's summer league games to try to reach out to him, instead of Yi, who just doesn't seem to belong in Milwaukee at all except in the sense that he was the most intriguing prospect available at the time.

But people acted like it was a foregone conclusion Yi would be great because of a few good games in Nov and Dec (didn't CV have quite a few of those himself his rookie year?) and they thought I was out of my mind. Well, now CV looks like a Jamison clone like I've been saying all along, and I have little doubt that he will be that caliber of player when it's all said and done. And you can't say Jamison is not a huge asset even with his horrible defense. He is a key player and so is CV.

[unklchuk]

Glad to see the shifts in this forum over the season in broad recognition of the need for defense and for heady PG play. (Not suggesting I'm any kind of authority; just commenting as one member.)

In regard to CV, I've spoken up for him, saying I thought he was being wasted by the coach and that he had unusual abilities to impact a game. He's kind of a Lone Ranger, so he doesn't get as dragged down by the losing herd mentality that sometimes hits the Bucks. Plus, he has his own, sometimes strong understanding of the game and a knack for sometimes coming up with the right move at the right time.

Watching him now, I see a guy who cares how he plays. Maybe doesn't care all that much about what the coach thinks. Wants to be a team player, but from his stance as Lone Ranger - for example, making a generous pass or finding moments of aggressive defense when it counts. But not "mind melding" with his teammates. Not concerned with hustling for hustle's sake. And quite oblivious to whole chunks of the what the game's about, especially at the defensive end.

I don't think he can be told about those areas and thus improve notably. I think he'll have to discover them for himself. He's sometimes called lazy or unintelligent, but I think it's more that he doesn't do what he doesn't see. And won't do it until he sees it for himself.

My question is: how much will he work out for himself and how far will that take his game?

[fam3381]

Just to give some numbers to the whole "CV sucks on defense" concept:

from 82games, 48-minute averages
Charlie: 21.1 fga, .474 efg%, 12.0 rpg, 23.3 ppg, 17.4 PER
Opponent: 16.4 fga, .559 efg%, 10.7 rpg, 23.3 ppg, 20.7 PER

For some perspective, here are *opponent* stats of some other PFs (only PF stats):
Garnett: 16.0 fga, .403 efg%, 10.6 rpg, 15.7 ppg, 12.4 PER
West: 14.7 fga, .457 efg%, 10.3 rpg, 16.7 ppg, 14.2 PER
Boozer: 15.7 fga, .497 efg%, 10.3 rpg, 19.5 ppg, 16.7 PER
Yi: 16.3 fga, .513 efg%, 9.3 rpg, 20.2 ppg, 16.8 PER
Nowitzki: 21.9 fga, .470 efg%, 9.4 rpg, 17.5 ppg, 14.5 PER
Marion: 18.5 fga, .462 efg%, 11.9 rpg, 20.7 ppg, 19.3 PER

As you can tell, not all the results are intuitive, and you can imagine that being on a bad team makes certain players look worse than others.

[Duncanfan]

Just to give some numbers to the whole "CV sucks on defense" concept:

from 82games, 48-minute averages
Charlie: 21.1 fga, .474 efg%, 12.0 rpg, 23.3 ppg, 17.4 PER
Opponent: 16.4 fga, .559 efg%, 10.7 rpg, 23.3 ppg, 20.7 PER

For some perspective, here are *opponent* stats of some other PFs (only PF stats):
Garnett: 16.0 fga, .403 efg%, 10.6 rpg, 15.7 ppg, 12.4 PER
West: 14.7 fga, .457 efg%, 10.3 rpg, 16.7 ppg, 14.2 PER
Boozer: 15.7 fga, .497 efg%, 10.3 rpg, 19.5 ppg, 16.7 PER
Yi: 16.3 fga, .513 efg%, 9.3 rpg, 20.2 ppg, 16.8 PER
Nowitzki: 21.9 fga, .470 efg%, 9.4 rpg, 17.5 ppg, 14.5 PER
Marion: 18.5 fga, .462 efg%, 11.9 rpg, 20.7 ppg, 19.3 PER

As you can tell, not all the results are intuitive, and you can imagine that being on a bad team makes certain players look worse than others.

You missed Duncan... who's giving up an opponent per of 22+ at the PF position.. maybe SA should trade Duncan too cuz he can't defend it seems.

[Baddy Chuck]

Just to give some numbers to the whole "CV sucks on defense" concept:

from 82games, 48-minute averages
Charlie: 21.1 fga, .474 efg%, 12.0 rpg, 23.3 ppg, 17.4 PER
Opponent: 16.4 fga, .559 efg%, 10.7 rpg, 23.3 ppg, 20.7 PER

For some perspective, here are *opponent* stats of some other PFs (only PF stats):
Garnett: 16.0 fga, .403 efg%, 10.6 rpg, 15.7 ppg, 12.4 PER
West: 14.7 fga, .457 efg%, 10.3 rpg, 16.7 ppg, 14.2 PER
Boozer: 15.7 fga, .497 efg%, 10.3 rpg, 19.5 ppg, 16.7 PER
Yi: 16.3 fga, .513 efg%, 9.3 rpg, 20.2 ppg, 16.8 PER
Nowitzki: 21.9 fga, .470 efg%, 9.4 rpg, 17.5 ppg, 14.5 PER
Marion: 18.5 fga, .462 efg%, 11.9 rpg, 20.7 ppg, 19.3 PER

As you can tell, not all the results are intuitive, and you can imagine that being on a bad team makes certain players look worse than others.

But look how how of a % the players shoot against CV then the others. I mean the #s arent horrible but if someones making that high of a percentage, you know somethings wrong.

[fam3381]

You missed Duncan... who's giving up an opponent per of 22+ at the PF position.. maybe SA should trade Duncan too cuz he can't defend it seems.

I only picked guys who play mostly PF...Duncan plays over 90% at center, where his opponent PER is 17.1

Amare also has played mostly center, but his numbers at both C and PF are brutal.