Charlie V's last five games

[Isocleas2]

but ur team lost 4 of them. there is just no D in CV. how may pts did he give up relative to his output?

But how many of those losses were CV's fault? He wasn't the guy who took it upon himself to win the game in the waning minutes. I'd argue we wouldn't have even been in many of the games if it wasn't for his outstanding play.

[showtimesam]

I'd say CV is better than Redd actually. Which is too bad considering how much Redd makes.

[Whiteman]

Out of all players who have played at least 35% of available minutes, CV has the 4th worst opponents' PER in the league. In other words, his defense is measurably terrible.

Of course that doesn't mean he has the worst score on the Bucks - that honor goes to Royal Ivey.

Read 'em and weep.

[Newz]

He'll always be a good player offensively.

Good comparisons to him would be Glenn Robinson or Antawn Jamison.

The problem with CV (Or the problem with this team) is that if you play CV at the 4 then you need a great defender at both the 3 and the 5... The Bucks have average at best defenders at the 3 and a very solid defender at the 5, but not enough to make up for CV's lack of defense.

He could easily be a 18/8 type of guy if he was given the minutes... Possibly 20/10 if he keeps getting better.

[fam3381]

Of course that doesn't mean he has the worst score on the Bucks - that honor goes to Royal Ivey.

Ivey's rep as a good defender is hilarious.

[carmelbrownqueen]

He's our most skilled offensive player with regards to position, and it isn't close at all. Sadly, he can only play well when starting, and he is the worst defender at his position in the NBA if he starts.

I think CV, if he started for the full season next year and got 35 minutes, you could see him average 20/10. But the team would suck badly.

His trade value is rising as we speak though, and he needs to keep getting huge minutes.

That about sums it up.. hopefully some team gets suckered into thinking he's the answer. His defense is putrid but if all we are interested in is individual stats then he's the man.

[DH34Phan]

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That about sums it up.. hopefully some team gets suckered into thinking he's the answer. His defense is putrid but if all we are interested in is individual stats then he's the man.

So you don't think we can form a team around CV's bad defense, in order to capitalize on his 20/10 ability?

I don't see Utah complaining about Boozer's terrible D, or New Orleans complaining about David West's terrible D.

[ReasonablySober]

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So you don't think we can form a team around CV's bad defense, in order to capitalize on his 20/10 ability?

I don't see Utah complaining about Boozer's terrible D, or New Orleans complaining about David West's terrible D.

Or Phoenix complaining about Stoudemire's D.

[xTitan]

CV will never be a 20/10 guy....he does not have the physical or mental toughness......he will always be a good player on a bad team.

[fam3381]

He's our most skilled offensive player with regards to position, and it isn't close at all. Sadly, he can only play well when starting, and he is the worst defender at his position in the NBA if he starts.

It's not close? I think people always say that because he has some guard skills at 6'11", but he's also missing some big man skills, and his outside shooting isn't very efficient even if he can hit threes. He doesn't have obvious back-to-the-basket skills, and while he's capable of shooting threes he doesn't make a high percentage of them, nor does he draw fouls. Those are important things that it seems people overlook just because he's got such a unique ability to face up and score on in-between shots. It's not to say he's not very talented offensively, but he's also not the finished product quite yet, and his arsenal of skills still doesn't rival Redd's IMO, and there are plenty of scorers at both PF and SG.

More importantly, his true shooting percentage (which accounts for threes and getting to the line) isn't anywhere close to what Redd puts up. If he can put up 18-20 ppg while posting a TS% of 55% or better that'd be great, but when you're at .504 it's hard to say that whatever skill he has is translating into results.

[ReasonablySober]

CV will never be a 20/10 guy....he does not have the physical or mental toughness......he will always be a good player on a bad team.

Like I said before, what happens if he's moved to Cleveland? Or Orlando? Or LA? Will that team all of the sudden go in the tank? Put him on a team with a superstar and he'll all of the sudden be a winner.

[fam3381]

I don't see Utah complaining about Boozer's terrible D, or New Orleans complaining about David West's terrible D.

I think in general it's deceptive to compare CV to guys who are more productive offensively and less detrimental defensively and act like it's a valid comparison.

However, I would say West is a much better comparison than Boozer...Boozer is a proven 20/10 who scores at an incredibly efficient percentage. CV's hot streak numbers are similar to what Boozer does every night, except Boozer shoots 54% all the time. For all CV's skill, he's not in Boozer's league yet in terms of production, even when you look at a favorable sample from CV.

West is actually not a very efficient scorer, definitely better than CV this year but comparable over the past few years. And CV's rebounding is as good or better.

FWIW though, the opponent production numbers of Boozer/West aren't nearly as bad as CV's. Part of that could certainly be because CV also plays with much worse teammates, and but CV's been an epic sieve this year.

[skones]

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Like I said before, what happens if he's moved to Cleveland? Or Orlando? Or LA? Will that team all of the sudden go in the tank? Put him on a team with a superstar and he'll all of the sudden be a winner.

Exactly. It's situational. If Zach Randolph wasn't such a black hole with baggage, do you honestly think they'd even consider Simmons and Gadzuric for him? Guys who put up close to 20 and 10 have a lot of value around this league. If you put them with the right players, it's possible for them to turn it around. If we changed the identity of our 1-3 to a defensive minded one, and lucked out with someone on our team entering the legit all-star ranks, his flaws are masked and we suddenly become scarier.

[Wooderson]

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So you don't think we can form a team around CV's bad defense, in order to capitalize on his 20/10 ability?

I don't see Utah complaining about Boozer's terrible D, or New Orleans complaining about David West's terrible D.

That's exactly why CV needs to be moved at some point.
Those players have the best point guards in the league, as well as Jerry Sloan and Scott instead of some bum. Unless the Bucks plan to somehow find a superstar pg and a great coach CV will continue to put up good offensive numbers on a bad team.
This team needs athletic players that want to work on D, and keeping CV means keeping the same type players this team has suffered with for years.

[paulpressey25]

-=If we changed the identity of our 1-3 to a defensive minded one.

I think CV can make as good a case as Redd and Mo for the designated "terrible defense but big-time scorer" role on this team. We can only have one, but don't see why CV can't go into the mix depending on how he plays the last month here.

I know Europa will catch up with this thread, and I'd just like to point out that CV is now playing like he did in Toronto his rookie year. The CV we've seen prior to this in Milwaukee was a much worse player.

This is the guy that all the Toronto fans loved and many still talk about. It is the guy we traded for.

Now that said, he still plays terrible defense and may go off for 4/2 on Saturday against the Celtics. I'm down with trading him but fine keeping him as well. I'm leary of giving him any type of big contract though and if we keep him I'd let him play out the next two years to full FA.

[icat2000]

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I don't see Utah complaining about Boozer's terrible D, or New Orleans complaining about David West's terrible D.

I read complaints in their game thread about Boozer terrible D.

[Raptors90102]

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I read complaints in their game thread about Boozer terrible D.

This means they should trade Boozer too and get a defensive stopper at the PF position..

In all seriousness, the bucks need better guard defenders and a CV-Bogut front court would work wonders.. and oh, add a playmaking PG to the mix and these two bigs will keep scoring like there's no tomorrow.. think about it.. when put together in the right system with the right players around them, these two can form a top-3 4/5 duo in the east..

[paul]

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This means they should trade Boozer too and get a defensive stopper at the PF position..

In all seriousness, the bucks need better guard defenders and a CV-Bogut front court would work wonders.. and oh, add a playmaking PG to the mix and these two bigs will keep scoring like there's no tomorrow.. think about it.. when put together in the right system with the right players around them, these two can form a top-3 4/5 duo in the east..

Was thinking the same thing, all going to plan they could put up 35/20 with 3 blocks between them, they are impressive front line numbers. I haven't forgotten CV is a bad defender, but like everyones been saying give us decent defenders at 1 - 3 and that isn't highlighted nearly as much, particularly with Bogut at the 5. I'd also be looking for a bump in CV's defense in the offseason.

[REDDzone]

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This means they should trade Boozer too and get a defensive stopper at the PF position..

In all seriousness, the bucks need better guard defenders and a CV-Bogut front court would work wonders.. and oh, add a playmaking PG to the mix and these two bigs will keep scoring like there's no tomorrow.. think about it.. when put together in the right system with the right players around them, these two can form a top-3 4/5 duo in the east..

We agree on something.

If we stayed with Bogut/CV, I do think we would need a better help defender at the 3 though.

[raferfenix]

CV has looked real good offensively, but have everyone already forgotten just how lazy and disinterested he's looked this year? Yeah, LK had a grudge against him, but it was no excuse to exhibit absolutely no effort on defense, the boards, or taking it to the hole for the entire season.

Hell, he's only started playign well when our team is out of the playoff picture. He's probably only stepping it up to get traded. Guy is an absolutely horrible fit on our team, even if we didn't have Yi.

Speaking of YI, we already have one power forward in him who is terrible in the post already. I don't really see Bogut ever becoming a great post player, and I"m not sure I want to commit to so many perimeter guys. So even if we trade our entire backcourt, CV is only a good fit if Yi goes as well...I don't know, I just have a hard time seeing any scenairo where he's the last one standing out of hte chuckers who couldn't care less about defense on our team (personally, I hope we trade them i'd).