Another version of team meeting

[jerrod]

i just don't quite get people who see no positive from being one better shot away from a win against the hornets

[xTitan]

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I am hoping we trade Redd and/or Mo.... but since that isn't going to happen I'd like to see the Bucks not get blown out of every game. Forcing it to Bogut gets us blown out. Mixing it up (ala last night) gets us a near win against the west's best. What else do you suggest we do on the offensive end with the team as currently constructed?

I really don't see how going to Bogut in the post equates to blowouts everynight, that is a stupid thing to say and its false. More importantly, you should hope for blowouts or at least losses every night or there will be no change, this team sucked last year with the same crappy cast of characters (now more overpaid) and all they did was add YI and a retread who reminds us of another terrible past trade. I don't want the little senator to think this crap offense and crap team might just work if you let the same misplaced, selfish players together one more year. This season is over, we all know it....rock bottom must be hit to bounce back or facilitate a change, like change of ownership perhaps.

[rilamann]

:rofl: ..........people are hoping for the duck and chuck offense led by the fantastic backcourt....have to love that.

But Bogut sucks man he missed a couple shots last night and we ''almost'' won last night playing chuck & pray.

And the only reason teams double team Bogut everytime he touches the ball in the post is because....ummm....ummm all those are teams stupid.

[Nowak008]

Epi has said numerous times that if Bogut could have commanded the double team last year it would have done wonders for the offense. You guys are acting if we went back to the offense from last year that Bogut would get 3 shots a game.

Our offense last year + Bogut commanding a double team = very potent

[BobbyLight]

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I really don't see how going to Bogut in the post equates to blowouts everynight, that is a stupid thing to say and its false. More importantly, you should hope for blowouts or at least losses every night or there will be no change, this team sucked last year with the same crappy cast of characters (now more overpaid) and all they did was add YI and a retread who reminds us of another terrible past trade. I don't want the little senator to think this crap offense and crap team might just work if you let the same misplaced, selfish players together one more year. This season is over, we all know it....rock bottom must be hit to bounce back or facilitate a change, like change of ownership perhaps.

In some of our worst losses this seasons (blowouts and losses to terrible teams) Bogut has taken a lot of shots.

Atlanta - Loss 80 - 96 - 12 shots taken
Seattle - Loss 98 - 104 - 15 shots taken
Sacremento - Loss 93 - 96- 15 shots
Chicago - Loss 99 - 103 14 shots
Washington - Loss 77- 101 13 Shots

And I could keep going on. Bottom line is that when Bogut gets more than 10 shots in a game, we lose 63% (19 of 31 games are losses) of the time. If you could tell me know how I am stupid for thinking that forcing Bogut the ball has not benefitted us, please explain. While the first night we "chuck" (again 50% from 2 and 53% from 3) everyone is completeley against it.

I tink this team needs a change as well. If it something doesn't happen by the deadline I have no reason to think it will be blown up in the offseason. So we might as well try and be competitive the rest of the year other wise no one is going to care anymore and they will lose a vast majority of their fans (who are left).

[rilamann]

Epi has said numerous times that if Bogut could have commanded the double team last year it would have done wonders for the offense. You guys are acting if we went back to the offense from last year that Bogut would get 3 shots a game.

Our offense last year + Bogut commanding a double team = very potent

Bogut got doubled last year,not as often as this year but he did draw double teams last year the problem was the offense was set up for Bogut to primarily set picks and screens for our shooters.It didnt look like Bogut being in the post on offense was even an option on any of the plays.

[BobbyLight]

i just don't quite get people who see no positive from being one better shot away from a win against the hornets

This is really hard for me to understand as well. And I still haven't seen a good, logical explination.

[jerrod]

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But Bogut sucks man he missed a couple shots last night and we ''almost'' won last night playing chuck & pray.

question for you

if the team is "chucking" and shooting at 50% and 53%,

what is bogut shooting worse than that called?


oh, you want to talk about praying? might as well do that everytime yi catches in the post

[xTitan]

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This is really hard for me to understand as well. And I still haven't seen a good, logical explination.

Its one game and there star had the flu and still put up a double/double....it doesn't work, hasn't worked the previous 2 years and won't work again. If you like that crap basketball, more power to you because it looks like you will have your wish, at least until one of those overpaid softies in the backcourt sit out with another lame injury.

[Nowak008]

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Bogut got doubled last year,not as often as this year but he did draw double teams last year the problem was the offense was set up for Bogut to primarily set picks and screens for our shooters.It didnt look like Bogut being in the post on offense was even an option on any of the plays.

Bogut drawing double teams last year? Thats a laugh. Bogut set a lot of screens last year, as he has this year.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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In some of our worst losses this seasons (blowouts and losses to terrible teams) Bogut has taken a lot of shots.

Atlanta - Loss 80 - 96 - 12 shots taken
Seattle - Loss 98 - 104 - 15 shots taken
Sacremento - Loss 93 - 96- 15 shots
Chicago - Loss 99 - 103 14 shots
Washington - Loss 77- 101 13 Shots

And I could keep going on. Bottom line is that when Bogut gets more than 10 shots in a game, we lose 63% (19 of 31 games are losses) of the time. If you could tell me know how I am stupid for thinking that forcing Bogut the ball has not benefitted us, please explain. While the first night we "chuck" (again 50% from 2 and 53% from 3) everyone is completeley against it.

I tink this team needs a change as well. If it something doesn't happen by the deadline I have no reason to think it will be blown up in the offseason. So we might as well try and be competitive the rest of the year other wise no one is going to care anymore and they will lose a vast majority of their fans (who are left).

I'll call you stupid because bottom line, the Bucks have lost 64% of all games they have played this year. So I don't think "force feeding" Bogut has much effect on whether we are winning or losing.

Usually when Bogut is getting this number of shots, we are shorthanded, which does not help our offense or our ability to win games.

[BobbyLight]

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Its one game and there star had the flu and still put up a double/double....it doesn't work, hasn't worked the previous 2 years and won't work again. If you like that crap basketball, more power to you because it looks like you will have your wish, at least until one of those overpaid softies in the backcourt sit out with another lame injury.

I think you and I are just having a slight misunderstanding... because I agree with everything you are saying. We are a crap defensive team and we have two very selfish players in the backcourt, one of whom has to go. My whole thing is that foricing it to Bogut did not produce wins and in a lot of games where he shot a lot we were blown out (same can be said for Redd as well). So why not just shoot away and see what happens the rest of the season, it gave us the best chance we have had against a real team in a long, long time. And it's not like Bogut didn't get his opportunities last night. He had 8 shots, only 3 under his average.

[jerrod]

well yeah, i don't see anyone arguing that our overall defense isn't awful.

but i thought we were talking about the offense?

[xTitan]

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I think you and I are just having a slight misunderstanding... because I agree with everything you are saying. We are a crap defensive team and we have two very selfish players in the backcourt, one of whom has to go. My whole thing is that foricing it to Bogut did not produce wins and in a lot of games where he shot a lot we were blown out (same can be said for Redd as well). So why not just shoot away and see what happens the rest of the season, it gave us the best chance we have had against a real team in a long, long time. And it's not like Bogut didn't get his opportunities last night. He had 8 shots, only 3 under his average.

His average isn't enough, thats my point...I want him shooting more, at least getting more touches in the post because he is now getting double teamed regularly...this will give the Mo Williams and Redds lots of shooting opportunities all they have to do is make them, but they seem to enjoy dribbling around and shooting more. As far as playing more up tempo I am fo that, but that is usually done as a result of defensive effort and reboundiong, 2 things this low IQ team fails to comprehend.

[BobbyLight]

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I'll call you stupid because bottom line, the Bucks have lost 64% of all games they have played this year. So I don't think "force feeding" Bogut has much effect on whether we are winning or losing.

Usually when Bogut is getting this number of shots, we are shorthanded, which does not help our offense or our ability to win games.

Really, you mean there is no other possible way that some of the shots Bogut took in these loses couldn't have been made by another player. If Bogut has less 10+ shot games, who is to say what our record is. Take 50% of Boguts 10+ games and give half those shots to someone else, there is no telling what happens. This is why Stotts refused to force feed Bogut. Stotts wanted to win games. No develop a moody player who has his attitude all over the pace.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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I think you and I are just having a slight misunderstanding... because I agree with everything you are saying. We are a crap defensive team and we have two very selfish players in the backcourt, one of whom has to go. My whole thing is that foricing it to Bogut did not produce wins and in a lot of games where he shot a lot we were blown out (same can be said for Redd as well). So why not just shoot away and see what happens the rest of the season, it gave us the best chance we have had against a real team in a long, long time. And it's not like Bogut didn't get his opportunities last night. He had 8 shots, only 3 under his average.

Because it hasn't worked producing positive results in the past.

Thats the problem. Everybody from the GM to the Coach needs to win now. If we had just sucked it up, force feeded the ball to Bogut for the last two years, we might not be in this position.

If you think Bogut "got his opportunities" last night, then I just don't know what to say. 2 shots for every quarter, is not "getting opportunities"


We need to build a team for the future. Having good big men = success.

Look at every title thats ever been won. Besides MJ, every single one of them had a dominant big man. I honestly believe Bogut can be dominant at his position. Not sure if he can be dominant enough to win a title, but with the right supporting cast I believe Bogut should be able to take us to the conference finals and from there who knows what can happen.

[rilamann]

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question for you

if the team is "chucking" and shooting at 50% and 53%,

what is bogut shooting worse than that called?


oh, you want to talk about praying? might as well do that everytime yi catches in the post

Are you defending the Chuck and pray offense? Live by the jumpshot die by the jumpsot and you saw that last night.

And what good is 50% shooting when you give up 56% shooting.The Bucks are a bad defensive team and they are even worse on defense obviously when they take long shots and play at a faster pace.You saw that proven last night and it was proven a lot last season.

Larry K isnt a good coach but at least he does realize balance on offense is good basketball and the Bucks will have a better chance to get stops if they play at a slower offensive pace.

Sure the Bucks are capable of nights when they shoot the basketball wel but playing that style they'll give up 50=% shooting to the opponet and even if you have your share of good shooting nights your living and dying by the jumpers and you'll never be more than mediocre at best playing that way.

As for Bogut I call it having a bad night or just having a night when he missed a couple shots.I know you've played basketball before Jerrod so im sure you know you can have days when your shot just dont wanna drop,it happens and even happens to guys in the NBA.

Bogut could make a great move in the post and the shot could rim out and people on this board will act like the guy cant score and shouldnt get the ball the rest of the game.

Bogut shoots 50% on the season.

I mean come on Bogut was 3-8 its not like he was 3-18 and a couple of his misses where missed tip-ins take those 2 away and hes 3-6 50%.Plus Bogut got two touches in the post in the 2nd half and he scored on both of them.

So im in the wrong for wanting better balance on offense?

Im wrong for thinking Bogut should have gotten more touches in the post even though he missed a ''couple shots''.

[BobbyLight]

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His average isn't enough, thats my point...I want him shooting more, at least getting more touches in the post because he is now getting double teamed regularly...this will give the Mo Williams and Redds lots of shooting opportunities all they have to do is make them, but they seem to enjoy dribbling around and shooting more. As far as playing more up tempo I am fo that, but that is usually done as a result of defensive effort and reboundiong, 2 things this low IQ team fails to comprehend.

My real problem with the offense this year has been that the sets LK has take freaking forever to develop. Or is that just me? I can agree with getting Bogut the ball more. But can we do it with more than 10 clicks on the shot clock? How does LK expect the inside/outside thing to happen when people are getting the ball in a stupid positon with 5-10 seconds left on the clock. That's what kills me.

I guess I want to see the "chucking" mixed in with fast offense for Bogut. That's what I want.

[jerrod]

but again, wasn't bogut only like 2 shots off his season average?

and if cv was there to score in the post there would have been more inside scoring

[rilamann]

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Bogut drawing double teams last year? Thats a laugh. Bogut set a lot of screens last year, as he has this year.

Yes he did you just dont remember it because he got the ball in the post like 2 times a game.

He did get doubled,not like he does this year and some of the double teams wernt strong double teams,the guy comming with the double would only come halfway.

But the point is Bogut did get doubled at times and draw the defense's attention when he got the ball in the post last season,it just didnt happen that often.