Redd and Bogut vie for control of the Bucks' offense

[Dags]

One would hope that an NBA player shouldn't need to think too much. By that stage it should be as much (if not more) instinct as it is thinking.

But it's more a worry that his instinct is wired to him being the number 1 and 2 option, and he has to over-think in order to play a part in an offense not completely centred around him.

This is simply Redd refusing to relinquish the alpha-male position on the team. Nothing more, nothing less. It'll be interesting how it all just plays out.

[dunhill]

Well if his instincts are all he uses they're pretty horrible. 20 seconds of dribbling the ball in to the court to launch a 25ft prayer, repeatedly throwing up off balance jumpers against double teams, ignoring the post man, letting no names have career days against you is pretty poor instinctive play. You have to think once in a while, adjustments are mental not instinctive. when your shooting crap on those 5-20 nights while most of your teamates are going 7 of 8 , a mental adjustment needs to be made. Where are his instincts on the defensive end btw?

[Chapter29]

Thats right dunhill.

His instincts are actually pretty terrible as is his court vision.

Though I will give him that he is making an effort to share the ball more and rebound, come the end of the game he changes as a player.

Sickening really.

[smauss]

I find Redd's comments to be very concerning.

You're not supposed to think on a basketball court, you are suppose to train yourself to instinctively know whats going on and make good choices. Over thinking slows things down. For example, Brett shouldn't have to look to where his receiver is, he should know where he should be and then simply do a quick check that he is were he is supposed to be and fire away.

I fear "Let me play, let me go, let me loose" to mean, let me shoot whenever I want. Let me take 30 shots per game, like he did last night. Not that he had a bad game, because he didn't, but I am never a fan of a player taking 30 shots. Both Bogut and Mo should get more looks than they did.

As much as Mo and Redd don't compliment one another I also fear that this team cannot coexist with both Redd and Bogut together. Redd needs to be on a team where he is clearly not the better player, like he was on TeamUSA. Then he plays the game the right way.

I would define Redd's comments as coming from a player who has been trying to implement a change from the coach that is out of instinctual pattern of play. I think both Mo and Redd have been coached this year to try to change their respective games. Mo to being more of a true PG rather than a 2 in 1's clothing, and Redd to dominate the ball less and help get others involved on the offensive end. It sounds to me like Redd is just not comfortable in that position. I fear for the balance of the season if we see a return to the Redd of old and if I'm correct, I also wonder about when Mo will demand the same thing. I have had a lot of respect for Mo this season in that he has truly attempted to modify his game with a good attitude but I fear if Redd morphs it will be difficult for him to only watch.

I agree with the tempo comments, but that is a decision process critical to the PG IMHO. Maybe this could the vector by which the bucks can allow Mo and Redd to be "let loose" within the team concept that is/has been trying to be instilled BUT it will require Mo to do a good job of decision making as to the if, when, hows of going uptempo. As I said, this is a critical part of the decision making process of the floor general(PG).

[Sigra]

I really question if Redd can function well mentally over a long stretch of games when he has to think about whether it's ok for him to shoot/drive multiple times in a row down the court. When Redd is the man on the team and by far the primary scorer/shot taker, he doesn't really have to think on the court, just attack and score. It's been his role and how he's played for years. He's been asked lately to defer more than he's used to, share the man role with Bogut and he doesn't know how play it or deal with it.

I have been saying that for years. For Redd to be worth his contract he has to have green light to shot as soon as he wants. That is not good fit with Bogut unless Bogut accepts to be role player who make screens, defend and rebound.

[Sigra]

Bogut isn't the guy freezing Redd out of the offence.

Nope. The philosophy to "think before shot" is what is freezing Redd out of the offense. Yet you have to think before shot if you want to play team offense. Bogut is best used in team offense. Redd is bad fit for team offense period.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Here are some quotes from recaps of the Bucks last two wins - against the Hawks last Wednesday and versus the Pacers last night:

Bucks 87 - Atlanta 80:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2008011615

Andrew Bogut is finally turning into the low-post presence the Bucks desperately needed.

Bogut, the former No. 1 pick in his third season, continued his recent tear with 21 points, 10 rebounds and four blocked shots and Milwaukee beat cold-shooting Atlanta 87-80 on Wednesday night.

Bogut's recent surge in production came after several meetings with coach Larry Krystkowiak, which led to more plays for him in the offense.

"They said they were going to get the ball into me a bit more. It's definitely good to hear a coach say that, it gives you confidence," Bogut said. "If I take 20 shots, I'm pretty sure I'll make 50 percent of them or more, so the more shots, the better."

Bogut was 8-of-14 from the field against the Hawks and had 14 points in the second half.

"We've gotten a little more creative with ways to get him the basketball. I think early in the season it's one thing to talk about, 'Hey, let's throw the ball inside and give Andrew an opportunity early in the season,"' Krystkowiak said. "Shame on me for doing so -- if he didn't produce the first two or three times down the floor, often times we'd go to another option."

Milwaukee 104 - Indiana 92

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2 ... 15&prov=ap

Michael Redd has not had a lot of fourth-quarter shots in the past few games, so he sat down with Milwaukee Bucks coach Larry Krystkowiak and devised a new plan before Thursday night's game against Indiana.

The meeting paid immediate dividends as Redd scored 37 points, leading the up-tempo Bucks to a 104-92 victory over the Pacers.

"Let me play, let me go, let me loose," was the way Redd described the result of the meeting. "Just go play. No thinking. Play basketball."

Redd took only three shots in the fourth quarter in Milwaukee's loss to Phoenix Tuesday night, and four second-half shots in Saturday night's loss to Golden State.

Instead of Redd being the focal point, the Bucks offense went through center Andrew Bogut the past few games.

After his pregame meeting with Krystkowiak, Redd was back as the centerpiece of Milwaukee's offense and made 13-of-29 shots. He had five rebounds and five assists without a turnover, scoring 10 in the fourth quarter.

He played every minute of the second half and 45 overall as the Bucks won for only the second time in eight games.

"That might be the way we have to play the rest of the year, fast, up-tempo, keep pushing it, within sense," he said. "It was different tonight. It wasn't so much slow. Just playing in transition."

But did Krystkowiak view the result of the their meeting differently?

"There's nobody on our team I'd rather have taking an open shot than Michael," Krystkowiak said.

"It's the time when maybe he carries the burden on his shoulders a little bit and takes some forced shots," he said. "I don't want to rob anybody of feeling like they can't take shots when they're open."

Here's to hoping that this is one battle Redd will lose.

Honestly, watching Redd play lately.. I have gotten the impressions during a number of late game possessions that he is second guessing when it is okay and when it isn't okay to take the shot. I think that "second guessing" is contributing to his poor late game accuracy and preventing us from getting the late game shots we need.

Really it's all about balance. We need balance in our offense, where everyone is a part of helping this team win. Do we run the offense through Bogut or Redd? Really too me that isn't the main point. These guys have to learn how to play together and win. We need Bogut to be able to go to a dependable low post move and get a score or draw the foul will shots aren't going. We need Redd to take and make shots. We need him to pass successfully to his teammates and have confidence that if he can't do it then they can. We need Mo to pass the ball and encourage team play by demonstrating that with his actions. We need Yi to get stronger, finish at the basket and become the player he is capable of being for this team. Right now, the question shouldn't necessarily be, who should the ball go through but more how are we going to win and keep everyone involved.

It's about balance, and we don't have that right now.

[carmelbrownqueen]

One thing I do agree with Redd is that we should be playing at a faster pace. Benn on this band wagon for a while now. Give Bogut his shots like he has been getting, just push the tempo more. There are too many possessions where we let the shot clock dwindle down and then take a terrible shot.

I would like to get some more quick action and more easy buckets. We fiddle with the ball too much sometimes and get unnecessary TO's.

Yep, completely agree.

[carmelbrownqueen]

The concerning part for me is if Redd felt the need to call meetings to get the offensive focus back on him. If that's what happened it's a hell of an example for a team leader.

Get ready for Bogut's numbers to drop back down if that is the case and the offensive focus goes back to Redd and jumpshooting, I had hoped he was smart enough to realise that the only way forward for this team was to develop an inside outside game.

Where did it say that Redd called the meeting?

Also even with Bogut being the focus on offense, we never ever ceased being a jumpshooting team.

[Sigra]

This thread should be sticked. This is most important topic for Milwaukee Bucks.

[carmelbrownqueen]

I do remember thinking those first few games after Redd came back from his injury that he looked awkward on the court at times. He at times would have the ball and it seemed like the wheels were spinning in his brain thinking, i just shot last time down the court, is it ok for me to shoot again.

He's for so long been the man and had the green light to shoot when he pleased. Then you had players while winning during Redd's injury, in not exactly subtle ways saying how refreshing the ball movement and sharing shots was. Redd i'm sure heard the comments and to me he seemed at times to purposely pass on shots to make a point during times the offense was struggling to score.

I really question if Redd can function well mentally over a long stretch of games when he has to think about whether it's ok for him to shoot/drive multiple times in a row down the court. When Redd is the man on the team and by far the primary scorer/shot taker, he doesn't really have to think on the court, just attack and score. It's been his role and how he's played for years. He's been asked lately to defer more than he's used to, share the man role with Bogut and he doesn't know how play it or deal with it.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out the next 10-15 games in regards to the shot numbers for Redd and Andrew. If we have a bad game or two where Redd takes say 20-23 shots and Bogut gets few touches, will there be some conflict on the team over it.

Agreed. I think this is a learning experience for both players. Both Bogut and Redd want to be the man on the team.. and some times it's to the detirment of wins. If Bogut or Redd get 25 shots per game and we still don't win then what does it matter? There are enough shots to go around, we just have to be more balanced.. because all I want is wins and that's all anyone should want really.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Redd took only three shots in the fourth quarter in Milwaukee's loss to Phoenix Tuesday night, and four second-half shots in Saturday night's loss to Golden State.

Instead of Redd being the focal point, the Bucks offense went through center Andrew Bogut the past few games.

In the 4th against Pacers Redd was 3-10 (inc 2 treys) and 2-2 FTs for 10 points in 12 mins. Bogut was 2-2 FGs and 2-4 FTs for 6 points in 6 mins.

Against Phoenix, Bogut was 1-2 playing 9:40 in the 4th. He didn't take shots away from Redd. Ivey and Bell were the main culprits.

Against Warriors, Bogut was 1-4 FGs (including a missed 3-point buzzer beater) and 3-4 FTs, playing 7:30 in the 4th. Again, Bogut wasn't the guy getting the ball or the shots.

Bogut had no assists in the 4th quarter in any of the above games. It just isn't true that the ball is ending up with Bogut in the 4th quarters (apart from Atlanta).

Bogut isn't the guy freezing Redd out of the offence. They both have the right to complain.

I remembering thinking as I watched the PHX game how strange it was in a way to see Ivey and Bell being the main guys taking the end of game shots instead of guys like Redd or Bogut. I guess it's a confidence builder for the other players but it did leave somewhat of an impression on me.

[europa]

I'm not happy about Redd's comments either. He played a terrific game against the Pacers. The Bucks wouldn't have won without him playing at such a high level in all probability. But if he felt the need to demand a larger role in the offense as opposed to realizing how beneficial it will be to him to have the offense run through Bogut than that's a serious problem. I can understand that Redd is frustrated and maybe even confused given how he's never had a strong post player to work with since becoming a starter (hell Bogut's probably the best post player the Bucks have had since Vin Baker). But he needs to understand that if Bogut can keep playing at this level it makes him even more dangerous and effective. He doesn't need to force his will on the offense, he can allow the offense to run through Bogut and his production will remain high and he'll get easier looks in the process. It really is fundamental basketball.

But I'll say it again - if Redd is unable or unwilling to grasp this then he should be traded.

This team has A LOT of issues right now internally. And they don't all revolve around Redd by any means.

[UGA Hayes]

As an outside fan I'm surprised that this surprises you. Even when he was playing for team USA he was shooting an insane amt of shots per touch and the team magically resembled the Milwaukee Bucks.

[trwi7]

As an outside fan I'm surprised that this surprises you. Even when he was playing for team USA he was shooting an insane amt of shots per touch and the team magically resembled the Milwaukee Bucks.

Except that team was so insanely talented they won.

[paulpressey25]

Larry K. can only work with the players he is given. Kohl saw fit to give Redd and Mo big contracts. Kohl likes the character of these guys.

Larry K. knows this team is going nowhere unless Redd and Mo get broken of their bad habits. He also doesn't have the power to deal Redd or Mo even though he might like to do that.

This is a process like Mike Holmgren with Brett Favre. But we all know Mo and Redd aren't as talented as Favre was, so this probably won't work.

Right now there is a three way battle going on between certain guys on the team, Larry K. and Herb Kohl over how this situation gets resolved. If Larry K. can win out, one of the backcourt members will be traded in the next four months IMO.

Larry K. now is earning some chips with Kohl in this battle if Bogut can keep breaking out IMO.

[jeremyd236]

I think a lot of you are overreacting and blowing this completely out of proportion.

We won the game.

How can you sit here and call Redd selfish, etc. after he scored 37 points in a victory? I mean, it's great to see the offense run through Bogut, but we only won one game in which he's played to the level that a number 1 overall pick plays at.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Bogut supporter. But good teams don't run strictly through one guy. It's okay to have Redd go off for 37, and have Bogut be the leading scorer the next game. In fact, that's what you want!

And to sit here judging Redd or anyone else for that matter by a couple of selected quotes from a newspaper is ridiculous. To say that they don't see eye to eye is terrible. We won the game and none of the players were complaining, so why should we?

If Mo gets traded (which I think is the right thing to do), the Bucks have a very nice group with the offense running through both Redd AND Bogut. It's not one or the other and I know Redd doesn't think of it that way either. He saw his opportunity last night against a weak team and took advantage of it. Best of all, we got a victory.

[europa]

As an outside fan I'm surprised that this surprises you. Even when he was playing for team USA he was shooting an insane amt of shots per touch and the team magically resembled the Milwaukee Bucks.

You do realize he was doing what the coaches wanted him to do and everyone connected with that team raved about how good he played, don't you?

[jeremyd236]

-= original quote snipped =-



You do realize he was doing what the coaches wanted him to do and everyone connected with that team raved about how good he played, don't you?

No kidding. Coach K (the real one), publically said that he loved Redd's game and wanted him to score. Everyone connected with the organization had nothing but good things to say. Redd wouldn't have shot as much if they didnt want him to. Remember, this is Team USA, not the Milwaukee Bucks. Despite what many think, Redd's not going to go out there and chuck Team USA out of victories. He did what he was assigned to do.

[Epicurus]

To reinforce jeremy's excellent comments, the Bucks won last night and they will win other nights when they shoot over 54% (efg) and only turn the ball over on 6% or so of their possessions--meaning lots of shots and lots of makes. Yes, it was against a somewhat topflight depleted team on the backend of a previous night's tough game, but it displayed again the template this team needs to win--good shooting and low turnovers. Who gives a **** who makes the points as long as the team shots often and well. To believe, however, this team can win decently without good shooting and good care of the ball is to live in a fiction. A bear behaves as a bear, a cat behaves as a cat, etc. Nurture only has limited discipline over nature.